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Situation - Divorce & Kids

Motokid

Motokid

New Member
You’re married for at least 5 to10 years. Over the last few years you’ve slowly been coming to the realization that you are not happy with this relationship. It’s not a violent, or physically abusive situation, just a general feeling that this is not where you want to be, and that maybe you’ve made a huge mistake.
You and your spouse have grown apart, and have very different ideas on where you want to be in life, and where you want to go in the future, and because of this an underlying stress has built up, and the atmosphere in the home is at times very tense. There are certainly some very heated arguments happening on occasion. The most reasonable, and most sensible way to resolve this is divorce. Split up and find happiness elsewhere.

BUT….there are young children. You hate the idea of admitting failure. You hate the idea of being another failed marriage statistic. You’ve seen all the reports of how children definitely benefit from having a male and a female parent living together in peace and harmony. You don’t want to be shuffling the kids back and forth on the holidays, and having everyone talking about what a shame that another couple has had to “do that to the children”.

So you decide to stay in the marriage “for the kids sake”, but admit that if it where not for the kids a divorce would certainly be the way to go.

Is this the correct thing to do? Stay in a marriage for the sake of the kids?

This is not my situation, but my wife has a very good friend who’s living it. It’s one of the few things we debate on a regular occasion. I believe it’s the wrong thing to do. I think it’s teaching the kids that a relationship without true love, and without true happiness is normal and acceptable. I think no matter how careful the parents try to cover up the problems they’re having, it bleeds through in every aspect of their lives. I think two separated, and happy parents is better than two unhappy, together parents.

How’s my timing on this one all you Valentines romance junkies?????? :eek:
 
Motokid said:
You’ve seen all the reports of how children definitely benefit from having a male and a female parent living together in peace and harmony.
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But they wouldn't be living in harmony, would they? There would most likely be a horrible atmosphere between them. I think they should definitely split up - staying together "for the children" or for other reasons, such as finances, is a waste of people's lives. The parents will be unhappy and the children will probably be unhappy too, listening to all the disagreements.
 
I think he should murder her and bury the body in the garden and tell the children that a huge monstrous beastie ate her up for being a bad woman.

It worked for me.
 
Moto, these situations are so complicated and specific to the people involved, which is why they have courts and counseling to adjudicate such difficulties.

There are many many issues.

The "what's best for the child" perspective depends totally on whether the relationship is high-conflict or low-conflict. One situation is bad; one is acceptable.

The age of the children matters. The personalities and income of the adults matters. An immature parent with low income who gains custody usually has a bad-prediction outcome, becoming dependent on the child and others for emotional and financial support. A mature parent with decent income has much better predictive outcome for a child.

In short, there's no right and wrong. It is all situation dependent, and hopefully the people involved will have enough self-knowledge to know their weaknesses and strengths.
 
I think you are right Novella. Every situation is different and there is still the question of whether or not they love each other still. Even if they have grown apart and are not happy, they will probably not divorce if they still care deeply for one another. Constant fights and arguments are not good for the children, but are there constant fights and arguments or just a few. After all everyone argues, especially in a family situation where you have a group of people living so closely.

Motor, you mentioned that you thought that the children would grow up thinking it is ok to be in a relationship where there is no true love, but I think it is important also that children come to understand as they grow that marriage is not easy and that it is something you have to work at. We don't want our children thinking that marriage is something that is very easy to get in and out of do we?
 
Novella and Billy (not Billy Oblivion) I think you are kinda taking an easy out on this one. Sure it’s a very tough decision, and one that is certainly dependant on a case by case basis. I’m not asking if these people specifically should stay together, I’m asking based on just the situation provided what you think is best for the kids, and what you think is best for the adults.

"...but admit that if it where not for the kids a divorce would certainly be the way to go." (from original post)

The only reason they are together is for the kids. If not for the kids the parents would get divorced.
There was never any mention of financial aspects. I understand why you make that point, but it’s not a consideration in this scenario.

I’m boiling it down to the “staying together just for the kids”. That’s the only reason they are not getting divorced. Which pretty much rules out underlying love. And if they’ve given the marriage at least 5 to 10 years I’d say they’ve given the relationship enough time to overcome issue or realize things are not going to change and might get worse. Stress and unhappiness usually has a snowball rolling downhill effect....
 
Motokid said:
Novella and Billy (not Billy Oblivion) I think you are kinda taking an easy out on this one. Sure it’s a very tough decision, and one that is certainly dependant on a case by case basis. I’m not asking if these people specifically should stay together, I’m asking based on just the situation provided what you think is best for the kids, and what you think is best for the adults.

"...but admit that if it where not for the kids a divorce would certainly be the way to go." (from original post)

The only reason they are together is for the kids. If not for the kids the parents would get divorced.
There was never any mention of financial aspects. I understand why you make that point, but it’s not a consideration in this scenario.

I’m boiling it down to the “staying together just for the kids”. That’s the only reason they are not getting divorced. Which pretty much rules out underlying love. And if they’ve given the marriage at least 5 to 10 years I’d say they’ve given the relationship enough time to overcome issue or realize things are not going to change and might get worse. Stress and unhappiness usually has a snowball rolling downhill effect....
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I don't think recognizing the complexity of a situation is "taking an easy out." Reducing a question like this down to generalizations doesn't serve any purpose. If you find it satisfying to simplify things to one, single right or wrong answer, I'm afraid I can't go there myself. To me, it depends hugely on the particular people involved and their circumstances.
 
It would hurt to devorce from a long marriage and find out it wasnt the right path to take later on in the future. It also hurts when you break up from a relationship without being married to them, but its better that you break up from a boyfriend or girlfriend rather than later having kids then divorcing them later on in life.

In this type of situation its difficult, but why carry on if you are going to argue and not settle what has to be done? I'm sure every couples have their faults through the relationship and down the line. The best thing they should do is sit down, talk about the situation, even if they are not that good at comunicating. they should talk and descuss what each other want and how each other feel for one another before taking a big step of ending the relationship. Talking to one another will help them realise what each other want and will try and work on for each other.

If things really are bad then maybe a devorce is for the best for the both of them. Why carry on with a relationship if its not going to work out for them both?

If they still stay as just friends then maybe something later on in the future may happen for them again, but for now, even a few years if just that amount of space is what is best for them then they should.

They have kids...many couples have kids before realising the relationship isnt going to work any more. The children will be upset from it and it may even put them off relationships as they get older, but they may understand and come to terms that it may be the best for their parents to have a break from one another.
 
I never said there was a right or wrong answer.

My point is what is the child, or children in that situation learning about marriage and relationships? Are they learning that it's ok to be unhappy? Are they learning that it's normal to tolerate unhappiness? Are they learning anything positive about relationships and marriage by having parents that are together for no other reason than the kids themselves?

Are they learning that some mistakes are unfixable, and that you must live in unhappiness forever with no apparent way to change it?

Are two unhappy parents together, better than two seperate, but happy parents?
 
Motokid said:
I never said there was a right or wrong answer.

My point is what is the child, or children in that situation learning about marriage and relationships? Are they learning that it's ok to be unhappy? Are they learning that it's normal to tolerate unhappiness? Are they learning anything positive about relationships and marriage by having parents that are together for no other reason than the kids themselves?

Are they learning that some mistakes are unfixable, and that you must live in unhappiness forever with no apparent way to change it?

Are two unhappy parents together, better than two seperate, but happy parents?
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I was just giving an opinion on what I thought of the situation.

The guy I have a crush on...his parents divorced and for about 12 years my crush has been single, he always puts having a relationship or getting married to the back of his mind because still in his head is his parents devorce. I know that what has happened in his family relating to why his parents divorced is kind of the reason why he is 'scared' to get involved. Many other reasons too, but since his parents devorce his courage to relationships has sank.

So I don't think divorcing is good on children because they will remember it and maybe even be scared of it happening to them later in life so they may 'hold back' I also think it varys on the type of person they are and the situatuion, a bit like death, some children/people take it diffrently than others.
 
RainbowGurl said:
So I don't think divorcing is good on children because they will remember it and maybe even be scared of it happening to them later in life so they may 'hold back'
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I agree with you, but I think the same holds true for children who witness their parents staying together even though they are totally unhappy with the situation.
 
Motokid said:
I’m boiling it down to the “staying together just for the kids”. That’s the only reason they are not getting divorced. Which pretty much rules out underlying love.
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Reducing it down to this, still doesn't make it simple to answer. How old are the kids? Are the parents able to remain civil with one another 'for the sake of the children'? Can they treat each other with mutual respect (not love) in the way they would a good colleague. If they can, and the children are too young to understand why marriages break-up (i.e. i'ts not their fault), staying together for awhile can still work. I've known couples who've done this. They are under no illusions that it's a long-term fix, but it can and does work.

On the other hand, if the parents can't see past their differences and are constantly undermining each other and poisoning their children's minds with bad mommy/bad daddy stories, then maybe they should split. But who, on the outside, really knows what's going on inside family dynamics? No matter what you do to simplify the terms of your argument, it won't work Moto. Take it from someone who's worked with a lot of families. Nothing is as simple as it appears when it comes to people and relationships.
 
I agree with Ell. Every family is different and every situation is unique. Being the child of divorce, I can say that I was affected when it happened (I was 5 years old) but it hasn't affected the way any of us approach (for lack of a more appropritae word) our relationships (there are 4 of us). The three of us who have married, have stayed in the relationships and are having no problems.

I do, however, encounter people who still have intimacy/abandonment issues left over from their parent's divorce.

It's a per situation decision, I think.
 
I am not trying to “over-simplify” divorce, or make it a right or wrong issue. I know there is no easy answer to the situation, and that it’s most certainly a case-by-case situation as to what’s best for all parties involved.

I just have a hard time with “we’re staying together for the sake of the kids”. No matter how civil the adults may think they are keeping things when the kids are around I can’t help but think the kids know a whole lot more than they’re given credit for, and that the overall atmosphere can not be the best one for these kids to be around.

Again, this comes back to young kids forming their basic personalities and habits from the very earliest of ages. Will they grow up to accept relationships that are not founded in true love and affection because that’s what they witnessed and lived with as kids?
 
Motokid said:
Will they grow up to accept relationships that are not founded in true love and affection because that’s what they witnessed and lived with as kids?
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Most of the world has traditionally accepted arranged marriages throughout history, teaching children that marriage is a mutual contract with its own rewards in which respect and affection are present and love develops over time.

China, Japan, Jewish, Eritrean, India, Pakistan, Sri Lanka, Vietnam, Cambodia, Nigeria, Greece, Palestine, Iran, Iraq (most Muslim peoples), Tibet, Philippines, Turkey.

In European countries, including England, Scotland, and Ireland, matchmaking and "socially arranged" marriages were commonplace until recently, and you can still get matchmaking if you like.

All this notion of falling in love and living happily ever after is relatively new, and given the current divorce rate in the US, might not produce better marriages.

I think the argument that "true love" sets a finer example every time is very weak. Of the many divorced people I know, I don't know any who found immediate "happiness" upon getting their divorce. They mostly have had a miserable time all around, particularly if children are involved.
 
Yes, but in many of those arranged marriages isn't the female more or less property? Subservient with no voice?

I dig this forum so much because of this type of information exchange.

Of the people you know who are divorced, who you say are still not happy, I believe that without question, but were they happier when they were married?
Would they re-marry the person they divorced? Do they think that divorce was the wrong action to take?

Most divorced people I know talk about the ex as if they were a piece of trash along the side of the road. It's really a shame.

I do believe in true love, and true happiness.
 
Motokid said:
Yes, but in many of those arranged marriages isn't the female more or less property? Subservient with no voice?
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Absolutely not the case. That's a myth that has no correlation to fact. Typically the woman is employed outside the home in a normal, full career and there are no such assumptions, particularly in India and China. Arranged marriage is just a way the families have input into the process of selecting a mate, and I think they try to find someone socially and emotionally compatible. The rest of life is pretty modern and normal.

I know 4 or 5 women who had arranged marriages and have always been pretty happy with them. In one case, my Filipino friend had a "true love" marriage that was miserable and then asked her family to make an arranged marriage. She and her husband own their own business in CA and she was born in Arizona. Now they have 4 kids and she's really happy.

I know a Persian woman who's been happily married 40 years and is a retail manager in Manhattan. I know a couple of Indian women in London who have very happy arranged marriages and they are both professionals with normal modern lives. I think they would all say they do have true love.
 
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