• Welcome to BookAndReader!

    We LOVE books and hope you'll join us in sharing your favorites and experiences along with your love of reading with our community. Registering for our site is free and easy, just CLICK HERE!

    Already a member and forgot your password? Click here.

The Bible?

sterculelum said:
Has anyone ever actually read all of it? Any good? How long did it take you? Was it just for the sake of it?
Click to expand...

You started a thread about the bible in the fiction section? *shakes head*
 
sterculelum said:
Hehe. I know. *nods head*
Click to expand...

O.k., so which part do you like/dislike the most? I'd have to say that I do like the "down with the man" writings found in Ecclesiastics, Isaiah, as well as the New Testament in general. Of all the "characters," Paul is perhaps the most interesting IMHO. The guy goes from harsh and giving orders, to being more acceptable and more "nice" towards the end of the works that are credited to him. Bishop John Shelby Spong of the Church of England has an interesting theory as to why that is the case. His contention is that Paul was man with conflicted urges of the "flesh" that he took out in negative views upon women and those who were different than him. Towards the end, where he mentions the 'neither Jew, nor Greek" thing, Spong contends that Paul has come full circle and that he would be more accomodating to those outside of the church today.
 
Robert said:
You started a thread about the bible in the fiction section? *shakes head*
Click to expand...
I'm confused. This looks like the non-fictions section to me.:confused:

I read the first few books of the Bible a couple years ago. I really enjoyed them. No matter what anyone says, I still say the stories in the Bible are far more interesting than anything scientists come up with. :)
 
I read the entire Old Testament, Apocrypah (Macabees, Tobit, etc) and New Testament, over the course of several years, in my 20's... and re-read portions in my 40's and 50s.

I was very glad I read it. It is necessary to understand the Bible, as well as Judaism and Christianity, in order to understand many literary works such as Steinbeck,... well, even Pynchon, in a curious fashion...

In fact, since Pynchon has come to mind, I shall post somethine I wrote about Gravity's Rainbow which illustrates how useful a knowledge of the Bible can be in understanding literature.

Gravity's Rainbow said:
They are approachng now a lengthy brick improvisation, a Victorian paraphrase of what once, long ago, resulted in Gothic Cathedrals - but which, in its own time, arose not from any need to climb through the fashioning of suitable confusions toward any apical God, but more in a derangement of aim, a doubt as to the God's actual locus (or, in some, as to its very existence), out of a cruel network of sensuous moments that could not be transcended and so bent the intentions of the builders not on any zenith, but back to fright, to simple escape, in whatever direction, from what the industrial smoke, street excrement, windowless warrens, shrugging leather forests of drive belts, flowing and patient shadow states of the rats and flies, were saying about the chances for mercy that year."
Click to expand...

And also, take a look at this passage:

page 145 said:
... like light at the edge of the evening when, for perhaps a perilous ten minutes, nothing helps: put on your glasses and light lamps, sit by the west window and still it keeps going away, you keep losing the light and perhaps it is forever this time ... a good time of day for learning surrender, learning to diminish like the light, or like certain music. This surrender is his only gift. Afterward he can recall nothing. Sometimes, rarely, there may be tantalizing - not words, but halos of meaning around words his mouth evidently spoke, that only stay behind -- if they do -- for a moment, like dreams, can't be held or developed, and, presently, go away.
Click to expand...

Now, this point I am trying to make is extremely subtle. If you so much as blink, this detail might pass you by.

excerpt from my essay on Pynchon said:
One farmer will say to another "what is the chance of rain?"

The phrase "chances of mercy" has a halo of sorts in a native speaker's mind.

But, when is mercy like rain?

And what is rain's halo?

I have some suspicions.

In Islam, rain is associated with mercy.

http://www.alinaam.org.za/dhadith/asunnah3.htm

http://www.soundvision.com/shop/pview.asp?Item=7406-001


Milan Kundera says that critics are people who "discover" other peoples discoveries. He makes them sound like scavangers picking apart dead bodies of works. Well, even vultures have to eat. A vulture has a bald head because it is always sticking its head in carcasses, and feathers would become matted with gore. A vulture is also, supposedly, the only bird with a sense of smell, to smell the carrion, or to smell approaching death, as it circles above.


http://www.cs.rice.edu/~ssiyer/mins...poems/1501.html


William Shakespeare

The quality of mercy is not strain'd,
It droppeth as the gentle rain from heaven
Upon the place beneath: it is twice blest;
It blesseth him that gives and him that takes:
'Tis mightiest in the mightiest: it becomes
The throned monarch better than his crown;
His sceptre shows the force of temporal power,
The attribute to awe and majesty,
Wherein doth sit the dread and fear of kings;
But mercy is above this sceptred sway;
It is enthroned in the hearts of kings,
It is an attribute to God himself;
And earthly power doth then show likest God's
When mercy seasons justice. Therefore, Jew,
Though justice be thy plea, consider this,
That, in the course of justice, none of us
Should see salvation: we do pray for mercy;
And that same prayer doth teach us all to render
The deeds of mercy. I have spoke thus much
To mitigate the justice of thy plea;
Which if thou follow, this strict court of Venice
Must needs give sentence 'gainst the merchant there.
Click to expand...




It is in the Old Testament that we find rain and words and mercy conjoined:


Originally Posted by Isaiah 55:10-11

For as the rain cometh down, and the snow from heaven, and returneth not thither, but watereth the earth, and maketh it bring forth and bud, that it may give seed to the sower, and bread to the eater: KJV


So shall my word be that goeth forth out of my mouth: it shall not return unto me void, but it shall accomplish that which I please, and it shall prosper in the thing whereto I sent it.
Click to expand...





Humanity is God's critics (are we not).


We do not see ourselves as vultures, but rather, eagles, nobler scavangers.


http://www.precious-testimonies.com...gles/eagles.htm

For wheresoever the carcass (his body...his disciples) is, there will the eagles be gathered together". (Matthew 24:27-28).

Now, the rainbow was the sign of the first covenant, shown to Noah after the flood, symbolizing the vow God made to never again attempt to destroy the human race.

In the days of Noah, there was no hint that one day, human technology would develop the gothic sophistication to do the job of annihilation with no assistance from God.
Click to expand...

Well, obviously, even to understand the title "Gravity's Rainbow" one must know something about the rainbow which appeared to Noah after the flood as the sign of a covenant whereby God would nevermore seek to destroy all human life on earth.

But for Pynchon, the ark of smoke in the sky from a V2 rocket during World War II is like a rainbow, except that it is a symbol of destruction, rather than peace.

Consider Pynchon's novel "The Crying of Lot 49". One must be familiar with the story of Lot and Sodom in the Bible to catch on to certain things in that novel.

Oh, I can use my new found skill with the spoiler code to say something which would be a spoiler for anyone who has not read "The Crying of Lot 49"

On the last page of the novel, you learn that Lot 49 is at an auction, it is not the Lot of the old testament, and you learn that the term "crying" is an auctioneer's term for starting the bids


Now, if you were reading Steinbeck's "East of Eden", why a knowledge of the Bible and Christianity is very essential to a full appreciation.
 
I've read the bible. Amazing that 2000 years on, no matter how many people attack it, not word word of the bible has ever been disproved.
 
Just a quick word from your friendly neighbourhood mod... :)

Religion is very dear and important in the hearts of many. Be they atheist or believer they hold very strong views and people get very offended very quickly.

Just a reminder: Let's keep it polite and civil. I would hate to have to shut this thread down.
 
The thing about reading the Bible is that a lot of us know the stories from Sunday school by then. I read the King James Version for the style. While the Bible helped form the Western world's cultural frame of reference, the KJV was one of the peaks of English writing.

Then, however, I read some books analyzing the Bible and its history from a secular perspective. Finally, I read a modern translation with annotations. A solid set of annotations--the Oxford, for example--can be very enriching.
 
I've read good portions of the bible in various versions. I'm not christian, but I get a lot of enjoyment out of reading the bible. I've always liked the stories. It's interesting to see how it changes depending on which translation you are reading. I think I own more copies of the bible than most Christians!

Robert said:
You started a thread about the bible in the fiction section? *shakes head*
Click to expand...

I don't think he's necessarily wrong. It depends on what the reason is for reading it. I had to read parts of the bible for five college classes. It was always taught as fiction by my school's history department. We certainly didn't look at it in a "this is a complete lie" attitude, but studied it more as an ancient teaching tool, particularly its use of allegory and symbolism to impart morals.
 
Though it may be a small thing, I usually refer to the Bible as a great work of literature, instead of saying "fiction." Calling it fiction might be inflamatory to some people; but I feel (and hope) that calling it literature focusses on the writing without necessarily getting into the Truth debate. After all, regardless of the factuality issue, the Creation story, for example, really is well told.
 
I'm not christian, but I get a lot of enjoyment out of reading the bible. I've always liked the stories. It's interesting to see how it changes depending on which translation you are reading.
Click to expand...

Yep, you have poetry, history, and theology all in one book. :) I teach a junior high world history course-I use the old testament when covering the Hebrews to examine their attitudes towards other groups. It gets particularly interesting when you run across the passages about the Assyrians-who were widely feared and hated due to their immense power.

I think I own more copies of the bible than most Christians!
Click to expand...

I have the same odd collection myself. :eek:

We certainly didn't look at it in a "this is a complete lie" attitude, but studied it more as an ancient teaching tool, particularly its use of allegory and symbolism to impart morals.
Click to expand...

Which is what a lot of the stories were written for to convey in the first place, at least according to many scholars, especially Jesus seminar members.
 
I'm not a religious person, but we did a fair bit of bible study at junior school (up to 11). Whilst I’m not a believer, I still feel I gained some valuable lessons in basic moral philosophy, and good citizenship, from the bible stories I can remember from way back when. I guess I’d of got the same benefit from the sacred texts of other religions too.

Oh, and I still love some of the old hymns we used to sing. An atheist liking ‘Rock of Ages’ probably seems a bit daft, but it evokes good memories of my childhood. As does ‘Onward Christian Soldiers’; which our very strict headmaster used to play, at end of term assemblies only, with one foot up on the piano keyboard ‘Jerry Lewis’ style. Not that our parents ever believed us when we told them!
 
I love reading the Bible. I can't say that I've read all of it because I never kept track of what I read.

There are no better rules for living then are found in Proverbs and no lovelier verse then those found in Psalms.
 
RobertFKennedy said:
I've read the bible. Amazing that 2000 years on, no matter how many people attack it, not word word of the bible has ever been disproved.
Click to expand...
I don't really want to touch this one out of respect for the forum rules. One thing I will state, however, is that proving and disproving matters of religion is very difficult, particularly when much of the belief relies on faith. I do admire many of the moral rules within the Bible, and think some of them are a good basis on which to live. That's all I shall say on the matter here.

I would be very keen to have this thread talk about the historical nature of the Bible, and it's origins. If this occurs, perhaps we can have a thread discussing the origins of other religious texts. If it turns out that we cannot have a discussion without breaking the forum rules, however, I will accept that this is too volitile a subject to have on the Forum.

A friend of mine, who grew up in the christian faith and has extensively studies such matters, tells me that there are many other Books that were written, but not included in what we know as the Bible due to intercedence from the Vatican many moons ago. Does anyone else know of this? If so, please tell me more.
 
You must log in or register to reply here.
Back
Top