• Welcome to BookAndReader!

    We LOVE books and hope you'll join us in sharing your favorites and experiences along with your love of reading with our community. Registering for our site is free and easy, just CLICK HERE!

    Already a member and forgot your password? Click here.

The Dice Man - Andrew Dice Clay

manuscriptx

manuscriptx

New Member
If anyone is familiar with him and his career as an X-rated stand up comic, on his VH1 cable television show, there's an episode which speaks directly to what I'm talking about in terms of dealing with agents and publishers.

The episode portrays him not at all receptive to the ever many twists and turns in getting from point A and to point B publishing and marketing. Needless to say, he starts to spout a lot of fire and brimstone but I say to myself, I know exactly how you feel.

He says it's a completed 800 page book worth at least a $1 million advance, yet he gets agitated when publishers ( 14 as described ) either scoff at the work, don't understand it, or claim it's too graphic for the literary marketplace.

I am of a mind that creative writing as I've always said comes in all forms, shapes and sizes. For anyone to claim that writing should always be walking a fine line inbetween some sort of preschool vernacular, for one thing Joan Collins books would never have reached print, yet she did fine.

Last thing I'll say is this to the learned class.

Remember the old latin phrase : fas est et ab hoste doceri

It is right to learn even from an enemy.

If presumably I like him are enemies of good, decent and proper literature.
 
Man, shut up. You whine and whine and whine about creative freedom. Ok, express your creativity, hopefully get published, and once you sell and make yourself worth listening to, then come and bestow us with wisdom through a forum post. Jesus Christ. You're out of highschool and you complain more than a girl who just suffered her first period.
 
ManuscriptX says this, (from Andrew Dice Clay):

"He says it's a completed 800 page book worth at least a $1 million advance, yet he gets agitated when publishers ( 14 as described ) either scoff at the work, don't understand it, or claim it's too graphic for the literary marketplace."
Click to expand...

Yes...this is what HE says. The marketing departments and the editors at those publishing houses say those things for a reason. It's not like they DON'T want to sell books, but there are rules. Sounds more like he's angry because they won't cough up the big advance. One of the first things that major publishers do with a celebrity manuscript is to do a little market research. If they don't see the sales justifying a huge advance, they won't do it.

Authors and publishers have to work together. Each has a certain responsibility to help put quality work into the marketplace. AD Clay has gotten a rep for being a tough act to work with, anyway. He's likely an editor's nightmare. I.E....wants everything up front, won't accept needed changes to the manuscript, etc.

Stubborn writers who don't grasp the concept of how important a good editor can make YOU look are almost certainly doomed to failure. Why should editors and publishing houses work with writers like that? They get a hundred submissions a day. They'll just bypass you for someone they CAN work with.
 
Bookworms can never be as successful.

Wether you're on either end of the spectrum, the writer, the agent, the publisher, the marketer, the retailer, or the reader, you'll never be a part of as successful a big money making enterprise providing entertainment to those who pay for it. As you would in the movie or music business.

Why should it be a surprise to anyone people want to be movie stars, singing sensations instead of bookworms like Steven King? The industry. Plain and Simple.


How much does the average paperback or hardcover novel cost?
$10-$15 dollars? I sometimes how much of that was helped along by some overly neurotic editor and publisher who hacked a story to bits.

___________________________________________________________

Oh gee, you know what, this could be better, and that, and that, and if you could just change this around to fit this particular context, I sure would appreciate it.
____________________________________________________________

Andrew Dice Clay further says in frustration that the book is how he writes it, with kind of a New York/New Jersey, Brooklyn/Bronx accent in each sentence as to how he talks, off spelling, etc.

But as you might guess critics in the episode whined and wimpered.

He said it's a book that tells his supposed truth about other famous people, but of course, they wanted him to change it. But if it's too watered down, the next forthcomming critique is : well it just doesn't sound like a real Andrew Dice Clay book.

Interesting conumdrums.
 
You're such a bad writer that it's funny. You're such a whienr of the editing world that it's funny. I'm such a cocky arrogant mother F--ker that it's funny. Trying to imagine you as a succesful writer, though...well, that's the funniest part of all. Ok, back to Eminem music.

Listening to: "Business." Dayum, this is a pretty old song (I think).
 
Well, I can tell you this much...
ManuX has NEVER been published by any reputable house, or he would not speak as he does about publishing/editing.
He lives in the la-la land of amateur writers, who believe that writers just crank out whatever first-draft junk they wish, and that publishers will just wave a magic wand over it and truck thousands of copies of his book to bookstores. (See: 'Hello...is there anybody IN there?')

'Here comes my Nebula award...and look! They're nominating me for a Pulitzer!'

Man, you need to check into the Reality Hotel.

"A room, sir?"
"Yes! Best in the house, boy!"
"Top floor, then! Let me get those bags for you. I'm sure you'll be having a long stay with us..."
 
_____________________________________________________

Andrew Dice Clay further says in frustration that the book is how he writes it, with kind of a New York/New Jersey, Brooklyn/Bronx accent in each sentence as to how he talks, off spelling, etc.

But as you might guess critics in the episode whined and wimpered.

He said it's a book that tells his supposed truth about other famous people, but of course, they wanted him to change it. But if it's too watered down, the next forthcomming critique is : well it just doesn't sound like a real Andrew Dice Clay book.

Interesting conumdrums.[/QUOTE]


How in the world can "offspelling" be a virtue? Saying, "Here's my book with misspelled words, ungrammatical sentences and incorrect punctuations and that's what makes it desirable." is like saying, "My car is for sale. The motor doesn't run, the tires are flat and the upholstery is ripped up, so I expect a buyer should pay the same price as a pristine new car."

If the editors won't buy shoddy work, it's all their fault, not the writer's. What incredible arrogance.

JohnB
 
I hate mischaracterizations.

People should know better by now.

You think the reason I have a salty opinion of the industry is because I haven't been given a book deal or a tidy advance sum? Don't make me laugh. Only an idiot would think all I needed was someone to throw a huge wad of cash to shut me up and play happy & nice with my attitude.

If you're an agent or publisher reading my writing, try not to be too shocked if you were to continually hear me criticize people like you even after signing on the dotted line to write three or more books.

Will that now change your mind about shutting me up just for the sake of doing so? Good. I sincerely hope so.
 
manuscriptx said:
Good. I sincerely hope so.
Click to expand...

But I sincerely enjoy throwing a show for SFG (Wtf is his name?--Whatever, he made the popcorn face).

Anyhow--we're not making fun of you because you haven't been published. It's the fact that you talk of your writing as if it is good, when everyone who has read it has made it clear that you need work. One main ingredient to writing is, yes, you need to read. "I'm not much of an avid reader as I am an avid writer." Well, your avid writing isn't too hot, and you're no ace of spades of the written word, sorry.

Now, I'm not saying your bad, everyone here I believe has talent. However, a touch of modesty isn't a hint at shyness, it's a mother fucking show of decency and honesty. When Robert is critcized, he takes it like a man and comments honestly on how he thinks he should improve himself.

You, on the other hand--"Listen, bitches, I'm just creative and you can't handle me."

No, stupid. We're just looking for something good and you're still not providing it. Instead of writing of your work, how's about you actually write your work. Once it's finished and published, then come bestow us with bullshit that you seem to believe in.

What you're doing would be like me saying "Listen, I have no records out, no one knows me, but damn it I kick the shit out of Eminem."

See? It just sounds stupid. And your explanations do, too.
 
ManuX says:

"How much does the average paperback or hardcover novel cost?
$10-$15 dollars? I sometimes how much of that was helped along by some overly neurotic editor and publisher who hacked a story to bits."
Click to expand...

ManuscriptX, I wasn't referring to YOUR work. I meant Clay's. Haven't seen yours yet. Besides, the editors don't set the prices on books, you should know this. It's the marketing boys.
Actually, this is how it works. Publishers set the WHOLESALE price of the book (to bookstores) at 50-55% of what is called 'normal retail' for that size/type book. The bookstores actually set the retail price. Most of the time they set it to normal retail. If the book doesn't sell, they either drop the price and try to move their copies out the door, or they send them back to the publisher on a 90-day sale or return basis for credit.
Although publishers have always wanted to weasel out of the old 90-day thing, it's the way bookstores have been dealing with them since the 1950's and probably before that. It's the old story.

I'm not going to give you a hard time in this post, but consider this, okay? I am the managing editor for our little press here in Seattle. I founded it, and I own 51% of it. And guess what...even I cannot publish a book that I have written without it being edited. Even if I used my position to force the publication, I wouldn't do it because I know it would be a substandard book. All writers need a second eye, an objective eye, to take a look. Editors are a good thing, not a bad thing. They WANT you to look good. Everyone is on the same page.

Generally, editors don't try to rip your book to shreds. They just try to correct the obvious gaffes, the plot holes, the misspellings, and make the book read and flow better. They don't try to rewrite it for you. If they want a rewrite of a chapter or something, they send the ms. back to YOU to do this.
Once, I rewrote a guy's book. I was told by another editor I'd be sorry. He was right. It's the hardest thing in the world to rework someone's entire book (except for rewriting a classic, as I did for 'Robinson Crusoe') and I'll never do it again.
Editors can be your friend. You just need one you can trust...and they ARE out there.
 
not only.......

Not only am I not sold on the small industry players like editors, I'm not sold on the industry as a whole - as a legitimate one, worth all the ( what I think is ) nonsense.

As I said, people in the industry make up these rediculous requirements, and critiques about writing material that it has to fit a very stringent set of parameters.

My argument is this is why the industry will never compete with other industries like music, movies, sports and other entertainment venues.

I notice in the body of the last two responses, you spend ( waste ) your time trying to disagree with what I have to say when you should be defending literature writing, publishing and the marketplace as something legitimate and worth the complexity.

I say it's not, what say you?
 
Stephen King is a creative guy, but he praises his editors for their support.

Eminem is a creative guy, but he praises Dr. Dre for "not sugar-coating it," and letting him know when his raps are crap.

Manuscript is a bitch.

Stewart owned you, by the way.

Blah.
 
You're a thirty-something year old guy who writes at a library and writes with the skill of a junior in highschool obssessed with poetry. We win. Thank you very much.
 
This thread gives me belly-aches.

Can't stop laughing. :D

On a serious note--why don't you two post what you consider the "best" piece of literature you think you came up with, and we'll decide the winner.. :)
 
best analogy

.......that's like putting three different kinds of vegetables in front of a bunch of pre schoolers who have been eating nothing but ice cream all day


Although people can't predict the future, there's no need for a time machine to gauge what inept responses are sure to forthcome.
 
I have a story idea for all of us. Maybe we can all collaborate. Here's the beginning:

There's this writing competition, called Writer Idol, let's say. And at first all the crappy writers are voted off, one by one. Except there is this one writer, let's call him Sanjia, or Vangina, or something silly, and he keeps making it though the rounds for some reason, keeps coming back even though everyone in the world knows he's a horrible writer. The judges keep saying, "That was bluh-ee awful. Like a cat trying to mas'tabate wiff a violin" and "Dude, dawg, dude man, you sucked, dawg" and the ever-inspiring "I liked your hair, and stuff.... hic" (drinking iced vodka from her Coca Cola glass). And this Vagina fellow, he makes it through to the top five and, at last, he gets voted off. The world mourns. So, he later shows up on a writing forum to state his fame to those not addicted to Writer Idol. He begins posting his stories, his poems, his "world-changing" literature. The members of the forum revolt. They try to vote him off, but the forum has no such mechanism of eliminating wannabe writers, as did Writer Idol. So they ignore him. And ignore him. And ignore him. For a while, this hack writer threatens to quit the forum altogether... for weeks, and weeks, and weeks, trying to get someone to care. After no such luck, he leaves. But, for some reason, about a month or two later, he returns. He starts his posting, over and over again. More stories. More poems. More crap. The members of the forum can ignore him no longer. They intervene. They try to be Idol judges. Some make some interesting, valid arguments, stating how badly this person's work sucks. In fact, all of them do. Except Fanjina, or Vagina, or whatever we want to call him; it doesn't really matter.

That's all I've got so far. If anyone wants to add anything, please feel free. This is a work in progress.
 
Give me a break.

Writer idol?


Kinda like that upcomming new network tv show about short film making isn't it? Movie Idol?

The whole point is the voyeuristic rush people get with reality wannbes standing alone on a stage while three idiots verbally bash away at how horrible somen is and how rediculous it was for them to even consider much less try at accomplishing a dream - all the while having to sit and take it.
 
You must log in or register to reply here.
Back
Top