U.K.'s new child slavery problem

[Sybarite]

... Your views seem to be similar to Sybarite's in that you are disregarding the crime and blaming society. You are excusing these child rapists, and abusers...

Here's a little challenge for you – go back and find the posts where anyone has 'excused' any rapists, whether of children or adults, and abusers – or indeed, where anyone has blamed society for these crimes.

I'm sure you'll find that quite easy – it's only a short thread. You won't have to look far. Then you can quote them for us all to see.

 

[Zolipara]

You may want, need or use prostitutes of what ever nationality, I don't.

Your views seem to be similar to Sybarite's in that you are disregarding the crime and blaming society. You are excusing these child rapists, and abusers.

Views like yours are the cause of what is happening.

To correct you, Capitalism as its finest works for all. It's Capitalism not at it's finest is where there is a problem.

Maybe this is hard to understand, but those people are providing a service that the "fine" citizens of the UK are using. So the best, and only way to stop those horrible romanians is to stop going to those prostitutes. In other words the english people are funding and supporting Romanian criminals so that they can provide cheap prostitutes, and they dont care how those prostitutes are treated. They let the romanians do the dirty work so they can enjoy their cheap prostitutes.

Oh and show me where i have excused these rapists and abusers.

 

[Motokid]

So one should give up attempting to seek it or even attempting to grapple with the questions around it?

If so, why bother with charity? Why not simply say: c'est la vie?

That's not what I was suggesting my dear.

However, taxing the crap out of people in order to redistribute wealth evenly and "fairly" isn't the answer either is it?

Pure socialism will not fly for many many people.

A combination of capitalism and social programs along with charity is a good combination. The question is how much of each ingredient is best, for the most people?

 

[ylris611203]

No we don't. There are issues around the question of migration, but we do not have "uncontrolled immigration". But let's not allow facts to get in the way of a good rant, eh?

Yes we do..........
http://www.dailymail.co.uk/pages/li...n_page_id=1772&in_author_id=244#StartComments
http://www.express.co.uk/posts/view/9972/Immigration-free-for-all-has-damaged-us-forever

The reason that I made a flippant – actually, it was sarcastic comment

It's getting difficult to distinguish what is not sarcastic, since you will not address the topic in discussion, but instead stray way beyond any meaning full relevance or give an alternative solution.


As regards to your comment about ethnic workers and the NHS, which has absolutely nothing to do with child rapists, and abusers, other than to provide a smoke screen to divert from the issue.

The NHS is a whole new debate. But at least tell the whole story..........

This Labour government, a few years ago, had to fill nursing spaces with nursed from abroad (who do a good job, I don't disagree) because so many of our nurses left the NHS because of poor pay.
The Government should have addressed the wage problem of British nurses before recruiting foreign workers.

 

[ylris611203]

Maybe this is hard to understand, but those people are providing a service .

So should we thank then and give some sort of tax relief for this service or stop them from entering our country...........or would that be violating their human rights.

Oh and show me where i have excused these rapists and abusers.

One example........horrible romanians. Explain what you mean by that remark because it does seem as though you are excusing them, defending them and pushing the blame for their deeds back on to the user. Using some sort of twisted logic.

Applying your logic..........If a drug pusher sells drugs to school kids then he is only providing a service; it's the kids who should be taught not to take drugs and then the pushers would go away. Tell that to the FBI they could save a fortune in trying to track down the suppliers.

 

[Motokid]

For the record: my views on prostitution <-- clicky

 

[Sybarite]

Yes we do..........
http://www.dailymail.co.uk/pages/li...n_page_id=1772&in_author_id=244#StartComments
http://www.express.co.uk/posts/view/9972/Immigration-free-for-all-has-damaged-us-forever

Hilarious. You're quoting opinions from the Daily Wail and the Diana Excess. ~~PMSL~~ Have you still not worked out the difference between fact and opinion, Sir Chris?

It's getting difficult to distinguish what is not sarcastic, since you will not address the topic in discussion, but instead stray way beyond any meaning full relevance or give an alternative solution...

You mean that it wasn't you who raised the issue of immigration per se?

Let's check, shall we?

... BECAUSE WE HAVE UN-CONTROLED IMMIGRATION...

Not: 'immigration of rapists', not 'immigration of Romanians', but "uncontroled (sic) immigration". Goodness, you even shouted it at us.

Now, let's move away from your attempt to change the debate: have you found those quotes yet?

 

[Zolipara]

So should we thank then and give some sort of tax relief for this service or stop them from entering our country...........or would that be violating their human rights.

Sigh.

One example........horrible romanians. Explain what you mean by that remark because it does seem as though you are excusing them, defending them and pushing the blame for their deeds back on to the user. Using some sort of twisted logic.

Its not twisted logic. If you go out and buy a romanian prostitute brought to the UK as a slave, you are supporting their trade financially.

Nomatter how tight your borders are they will get in. Your immigration laws have little or no effect on this. It will only punish the masses for the actions of the few.

Applying your logic..........If a drug pusher sells drugs to school kids then he is only providing a service; it's the kids who should be taught not to take drugs and then the pushers would go away. Tell that to the FBI they could save a fortune in trying to track down the suppliers.

In many ways yes. You are responsible for your own actions so when you buy drugs its your fault.

If you can learn one thing from the war on drugs its that it does not work. For every drug dealer you catch another takes his place as the demand is still there. Its a war you can not win. As an illegal substance the price skyrockets so its extremely profitable for those involved. By making it illegal you are loosing any sort of control over its sale and use. I'll make a bold statement and claim that making drugs illegal makes it more dangerous for the drug users, and increases crime in general. All this without having an actual effect on the number of drug addicts in the country.

 

[ylris611203]

Sigh.

I think that both you and Sybarite are missing the point.



CHILDREN

 

[Litany]

Yes! Won't somebody think of the children!

 

[Sybarite]

I think that both you and Sybarite are missing the point.



CHILDREN

Oh look. Sir Chris has to shout.

It's all he can do when he's having to dodge the actual questions he's been asked. Apparently he hasn't found those quotes yet.

 

[ylris611203]

It's all he can do when he's having to dodge the actual questions he's been asked. Apparently he hasn't found those quotes yet.

SFG75 started this thread and it is about U.K.'s new child slavery problem.

It has been all over the news this week. There have been dawn raids in Slough and other areas on Monday. Police arrested 19 Romanian adults in the raids on 17 addresses.

http://www.itv.com/News/Articles/Dawn-raids-free-Romanian-children---exclusive-video.html

You are Zolipara seem to have gone way off track on this one. Him giving the impression that in some way these Romanian rapists and child abusers are providing a service and you putting the blame on society.

What quotes are you referring to............or are you getting wound up because I am showing links to the very British daily Mail.

 

[Litany]

So you think that Romanians are bringing over children so that their fellow ex-pats won't have to go without?

 

[Sybarite]

<snip>

You have accused me and Zolipara of excusing rape etc.

Your views seem to be similar to Sybarite's in that you are disregarding the crime and blaming society. You are excusing these child rapists, and abusers.

Kindly supply the quotes where we have excused "child rapists, and abusers".

You have used this situation to try to make political by using it to claim that "WE HAVE UN-CONTROLED IMMIGRATION" (sic). You even had to shout this comment about immigration in general. The implication, in this context, is that all immigrants are "child rapists, and abusers". You have used something as serious as child abuse and rape as a way of changing the discussion to make a general point about immigration.

 

[ylris611203]

You have accused me and Zolipara of excusing rape etc.

The words I used were giving the impression .

You have used this situation to try to make political by using it to claim that "WE HAVE UN-CONTROLED IMMIGRATION" (sic). You even had to shout this comment about immigration in general.

We do have UN-CONTROLED IMMIGRATION in the Uk. France and Germany limited the number of eastern Europeans allowed into their countries at any given time, controlled immigration. Tony Blair (and now Gordon Brown) did not. For example: In 2006 Labour put a figure of about 15,000 on the number of Polish workers expected to arrive in the Uk once Poland became a member of the Eu. Last year this figure was over 750,000 and included in that figure it has been estimated that 40,000 have a criminal record.

Every newspaper and tv political programme now agrees that we are not able to cope. LBC, Radio London and Talk sport debate this issue a least once a week. If you are un-aware of this then you are not living in the Uk.

The implication, in this context, is that all immigrants are "child rapists, and abusers". You have used something as serious as child abuse and rape as a way of changing the discussion to make a general point about immigration.

I am explaining to you what was reported in a special News At Ten report this week. Their reporter went to Romania undercover. He was offered children for sale to take home and use slaves. These children are being used on the streets of London as beggars and thieves and each child can bring in £100,000 a year. The older girls are gang raped to customise them for a life of prostitution.

What you are doing is twisting words and it is You who are implying that there is some hidden racist agenda. A trick, much employed by the left during the last few years to undermine any real discussing about real issues. But it does not work any more, most of the population are wise to it. If you are unhappy with what I am saying try and get a transcript from New at Ten.

 

[Sybarite]

The words I used were giving the impression ...

And I'm sure that you can find the quotes to show that.

We do have UN-CONTROLED IMMIGRATION in the Uk...

No we do not. You might not think that there are enough controls on immigration, but it is not "uncontrolled". On the most simple level for you, if there was "uncontrolled immigration", there would be no deportations and nobody would be stopped from entering the UK.

... France and Germany limited the number of eastern Europeans allowed into their countries at any given time, controlled immigration. Tony Blair (and now Gordon Brown) did not. For example: In 2006 Labour put a figure of about 15,000 on the number of Polish workers expected to arrive in the Uk once Poland became a member of the Eu. Last year this figure was over 750,000 and included in that figure it has been estimated that 40,000 have a criminal record...

Ah. So immigrants might have criminal records. Well, just so long as no emigrants from these shores have criminal records, eh? By the way – 'EU' takes two capital letters. As does 'UK'.

Every newspaper and tv political programme now agrees that we are not able to cope. LBC, Radio London and Talk sport debate this issue a least once a week. If you are un-aware of this then you are not living in the Uk...

No. I'm living in the UK. I do respect the fact that you have been able to read "every" newspaper and watch "every" "TV (note use of caps) political programme", together with listening to all that radio. Who pays you to do all this, because it must be a full-time job? What did the Morning Star have to say on the issue and the Financial Times? I'm curious since I do not have the time to read "every" newspaper.

... What you are doing is twisting words and it is You who are implying that there is some hidden racist agenda...

I've implied nothing about your agenda. You raised the issue of "uncontroled (sic) immigration" – in other words, the issue of immigration in general. If you can't cope with this sort of thing being pointed out after you've made a decision to make such comments, then I suggest you try crown green bowls instead of debating. What I have said – and I will reiterate it here – is that in choosing to talk about immigration per se, you have used the abuse of children in an attempt to make political capital.

 

[ylris611203]

– 'EU' takes two capital letters. As does 'UK'.

This about sums you up. Pointing out that a capital letter should have been used and splitting hairs about immigration (I am referring to immigration being un-controlled by the labour government, as you well know) seems to entertain you more than the subject of this thread.

 

[Sybarite]

This about sums you up. Pointing out that a capital letter should have been used and splitting hairs about immigration (I am referring to immigration being un-controlled by the labour government, as you well know) seems to entertain you more than the subject of this thread.

So, you haven't got those quotes and can't answer the points I made, then? How have you got the time to post here given that you claim to read "every" newspaper and listen to loads of radio and watch "every" TV political programme? You're so good at multi-tasking, Christ, that you must be a woman.

And you're still wrong. Immigration is not "uncontrolled" by this government. Otherwise, on the simplest of levels available, and as I have already explained patiently to you, there would never be any deportations or people being refused entry in the first place. So in other words, you're talking bollocks, because however you try to twist it, there are controls on immigration, and those controls occur under this government.

And the subject of this thread was twisted by you in order to score political brownie points about immigration per se.

 

[ylris611203]

you're talking bollocks

.................and you seem to be getting wound up.

Address the issue this thread is about and stop blaming society and trying to defend Gordon Brown, he is a lost cause.

 

[Sybarite]

.................and you seem to be getting wound up.

Stupidity annoys me.

Address the issue this thread is about and stop blaming society and trying to defend Gordon Brown, he is a lost cause.

Nobody on this thread has defended Gordon Brown. But hey, let's not let facts get in the way of a rant about your mythical "uncontrolled immigration" shall we?

You raised the issue of immigration per se; you continue to confuse (either because you genuinely don't understand or because it suits you) facts and opinion; you claim that you know what "every" newspaper and political TV programme says on the issue (and an awful lot of radio shows).

Either you're a liar or just write things without putting your brain into gear first.