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Virginia Woolf
- Thread starter StillILearn
- Start date
SFG75
Well-Known Member
Your criticism doesn't take into account nuance. Conflict is present, your stating that it doesn't is incorrect. While it is there, it is too simplistic(see the post where I say that in my first post in this thread) to view the story only within that context. The conflict is the medium through which the message is conveyed. While you did go after the prominance of conflict in the book, you incorrectly associated it with me, and not those who wrote the other summaries.
Example:
I state that I heard others said you like apple juice, but that I think it's too simplistic as you only like apple juice on mondays. Someone else then comes around and says that I said you like apple juice entirely.
What does your statement and my example have in common? A complete critique of what was actually said. In short, a failure to "get" the complicated.
You are not correct in stating that conflict has nothing to do with the story. Sparknotes and plenty of other sources will tell you likewise.
You are not correct in stating that I think conflict is the theme of the book. I said other people stated that and that I thought it was too simplistic. You took the first half of that statement and ran with it, completley ignoring the qualifying statement at the end of the sentence.
Now will you own up to your impartial and incorrect response in regards to conflict?
novella
Active Member
Ugh, man. Read the thread. I don't have to write a dissertation. My points are perfectly clear and in direct response to your post. You didn't read the book, despite that you posted a bunch of ill-founded opinions (yours or not, you posted them), and I disagree with all of them--yours, sparknotes', etc. What about that do you not understand?
You wrote:
I've read a few summaries of the bok and the conflict between the Ramsey couple appears to be of central importance, though to me, that's too simplistic.
I suggest that you actually read a book before you start making these kinds of comments, because obviously a meaningful discussion about To the Lighthouse can go nowhere without that basic step. Or would you just continue to quote summaries and just guess at what you might think if you actually read the book?
Are you trying to have a discussion about the book, or is your aim something else?
Yours in bewilderment,
n.
You wrote:
I've read a few summaries of the bok and the conflict between the Ramsey couple appears to be of central importance, though to me, that's too simplistic.
I suggest that you actually read a book before you start making these kinds of comments, because obviously a meaningful discussion about To the Lighthouse can go nowhere without that basic step. Or would you just continue to quote summaries and just guess at what you might think if you actually read the book?
Are you trying to have a discussion about the book, or is your aim something else?
Yours in bewilderment,
n.
SFG75
Well-Known Member
Your bewilderment is only a product of your posting. I simply highlighted the criticism of others and then stated that it was simplistic. On that point of your criticism, you were more than mistaken.
The only "issue" here is your refusal to own up to the fact that conflict is in the text, and prominently so. While it is not the theme of the book, it isused to carry out the inner thoughts, relationship of roles, and that of gender and meaning between all of the characters. Conflict isn't a part of the book? Have you read it?
Nice try in wiggling out of the premature post about "conflict, so I'll ask again and again until you are done dodging.
novella
Active Member
Good of you to ask, SFG. I've read To the Lighthouse three or four times and then bits and pieces here and there, and I've also read Mrs. Dalloway, A Room of One's Own, and Orlando, but To the Lighthouse is distinctly my favorite.
As much fun as this thread has been for me, alas, I find myself unable to meet your needs. You want me to say that I don't think there's any conflict in To the Lighthouse? Why would I say that? I have not implied that and I don't believe it. On the other hand, I disagree with that thing you quoted about conflict, but I can't be bothered to go copy it onto here just to make that point. It's there for all to read, as is my reply.
So, I bid you adieu, until next time . . . please go ahead and post some other opinions on other books so that we can liven up this joint.
Thanks,
n.
As much fun as this thread has been for me, alas, I find myself unable to meet your needs. You want me to say that I don't think there's any conflict in To the Lighthouse? Why would I say that? I have not implied that and I don't believe it. On the other hand, I disagree with that thing you quoted about conflict, but I can't be bothered to go copy it onto here just to make that point. It's there for all to read, as is my reply.
So, I bid you adieu, until next time . . . please go ahead and post some other opinions on other books so that we can liven up this joint.
Thanks,
n.
SFG75
Well-Known Member
I'm amazed that you don't feel it's a part of the book. I'll grant you that sparknotes isn't the greatest source for literature, but I haven't known them to be too far off base. Have you? Sparknotes and other study guides clearly state that conflict is a part of the story, but let's also examine some "higher" sources than sparknotes about conflict and it's role in the book in relation to academic study.
Academic article #1
Preview:...
academic article #2.
Academic article #3
Acadmic Article #4
Yep, everyone is wrong but you novella.
The role of conflict in the book is simply the imagination of me, people who creat study guides, as well as those who write about conflict from various disciplines in academic journals.Sorry, but you are wrong. Conflict does exist, though not in and of itself. That view is simplistic as conflict is used to carry out the themes of gender, role in society, and permanence in a reality that is more subjective than we'd like to admit.
SFG75
Well-Known Member
Well, if you are now saying there is conflict, that conflicts with your original rebuttal to me. I distinctly remember this from your second response.
So now you are saying there is?? Do you agree with me or not? We are stuck on this point as your critique of my first post is murky and ever shifting.
SFG75
Well-Known Member
It's faulty in that it consists of relying on what you posted. You posted there is no conflict, now it appears that you are going back on that-at least, that's how I read your last post. I asked for clarification, though you won't answer. You never really did answer the original question no matter how many times it was put to you.
ions
New Member
Ya did say that novella.
There was conflict. It was silly, superficial, pedestrian and boring but there was indeed conflict. Far too much effort into a book that doesn't deserve a fraction of it.
ions
New Member
Excuse me? Me too? You certainly wouldn't be disparaging my reading comprehension levels would you? Because I know my reading comprehension is at least a little better than yours as, after all, I know what the phrase "There is no 'conflict' between Mr. and Mrs. Ramsey." means. I think you just don't want to admit being wrong. Even with the evidence of your error so blatantly exposed. It's not that embarrassing to be wrong, what is embarrassing is publicly denying so vehemently.
novella
Active Member
ions, all of my comments on conflict refer directly to, and only to, the relationship between Mr. and Mrs. Ramsey. If you read the thread, you will understand that.
SFG likes to take things out of context and misquote, etc. Let's work from what I really said, if you don't mind. IMO, the relationship shown between the Ramseys is interesting because both parties are so self involved that their perceptions of the other are bathed in the light of their own immediate preoccupations.
Would you please read my post number 65 , which clearly states my opinion on this idea of conflict in the book, but which SFG apparently read backwards or something.
SFG likes to take things out of context and misquote, etc. Let's work from what I really said, if you don't mind. IMO, the relationship shown between the Ramseys is interesting because both parties are so self involved that their perceptions of the other are bathed in the light of their own immediate preoccupations.
Would you please read my post number 65 , which clearly states my opinion on this idea of conflict in the book, but which SFG apparently read backwards or something.
novella
Active Member
Recent post:
A previous post:
Can you not understand the difference between 'no conflict in the book'--a broad statement that I didn't make and don't believe--and 'no conflict between Mr. and Mrs. Ramsey' --a specific statement that I support amply with my ideas about the characters???? Here we are at the heart of the matter. Do you not understand?
SFG75
Well-Known Member
novella
Active Member
No, actually, I wasn't which is very clear in the post (and why you've taken it out of context). It refers very specifically to that relationship.
A close reading of the text shows no constant conflict at all. She is, as I said before, alternately adoring and resentful, as is the case with most close relationships when looked at through the moment-to-moment inner voices of any individual.
A close reading of the text shows no constant conflict at all. She is, as I said before, alternately adoring and resentful, as is the case with most close relationships when looked at through the moment-to-moment inner voices of any individual.
MonkeyCatcher
New Member
SFG, novella is correct in saying that she never tried to suggest that there was no conflict at all in the text. Reading back through the posts shows this clearly. What you should be discussing is whether she was right in saying that there was no conflict between the Ramseys.