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Vladimir Nabokov: Lolita

Ah!

Lo and Hum are speaking.

"Sure you don't want to smoke"
She was smoking herself. For the first time I saw her doing it. Streng verbote under Humbert the Terrible. Gracefully, in a blue mist, Charlotte Haze rose from her grave.
Click to expand...

Just a few short lines and I see Shelley Winters in the movie with her emphatic manner of handling her cigarette, for emphasis, to emphasize the emphasis that her whole body language was already making.

In Lo, I imagine a gentler demeanor, but I still recognize exactly the way she holds the cigarette, tapping it -- even though N has said not a word about it. I see it there for the first time, exactly the way Nabokov says he saw it there for the first time.

So, as I read, the movies and the book have merged and become one for me.
And I hear voices, -- that should be obvious :cool: -- but Jeremy Irons' also, from the movie, saying familiar sentences, and I see that blue Melmoth traveling along a country road toward its destiny with a hillside, and so on.

"...the secret of durable pigments, prophetic sonnets, the refuge of art...the only immortality you and I may share, my Lolita."

Peder
 
And then, she follows Charlotte's complete pattern of handling a cigarette, down to the removing of a fragment of paper from her underlip. Amazing. Well, in the beginning of HH's relationship, at a certain point, he does speak of a strong resemblance between Charlotte and Lolita. He sees the young Charlotte in his mind's eye, and realizes that Lo is actually very much like Charlotte. But the image pales later and he seems to forget the resemblance between the mother and daughter.

So the two scenes balance the book in a way, remembered similarities.
 
pontalba said:
He sees the young Charlotte in his mind's eye, and realizes that Lo is actually very much like Charlotte. But the image pales later and he seems to forget the resemblance between the mother and daughter.
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Pontalba,
I've heard said that people have two halves to their brain. I think I only have one half! I was only thinkiing of Lo looking like Charlotte, and I never thought of (young) Charlotte looking like Lo. You are of course right, HUmbert does exactly imagine that!
And now, since you give me a second chance (to hang myself), I'll relate something that may be terribly un-PC, but somewhere along this jagged road of life, I've heard that "Daughters grow up to look like their mothers." Not just in the general sense one would expect, but really like their mothers! My two look different, so it isn't going to happen here (but one of them does!). But in Lolita, not surprising.
I also have diffficulty imagining Sue Lyon ever becoming Shelley Winters, but then again they are not mother and daughter. Duh. At least even I know that much! It's only a movie. :)

Peder
 
Peder :D
In my experience, the fact that something is momentarily un-p.c. doesn't take away from its truth. I suspect that many (including myself) women resemble their mothers simply because they pattern themselves, either consciously or unconsciously after the mother. For myself, I physically resemble my father, but am so imprinted by my mother that my mannerisms and voice are so close as to be practically indistinguishable from hers.

So don't worry, you haven't hung yourself.:)

Lolita did not even much like her mother, and yet, something so mundane as lighting a cigarette was identical. And I strongly suspect that Little Charlotte would have reacted in a very similar manner to someone like Humbert invading her young life. But on the other side of the coin, I doubt that Lolita, given the Humbert Experience would have turned into a mature Charlotte.
 
Oh! and btw, when I walked up to the postbox, (5 acres over!) guess what!? Yes, The Annotated Lolita was in the mailbox. Why UPS put it there is quite beyond me! Oy!
 
Just noticed something in Quilty's apperances in the Annotated version. P. 350, note that "an apperance at a rehersal of his own play, featuring Lolita."

Its one of the scenes omitted, but in the first film, Nabokov did the screenplay, yes? So he used it there. I don't remember that scene in the latter version......don't remember seeing Langella.
 
pontalba said:
And I strongly suspect that Little Charlotte would have reacted in a very similar manner to someone like Humbert invading her young life. But on the other side of the coin, I doubt that Lolita, given the Humbert Experience would have turned into a mature Charlotte.
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Pontalba
When I think of Shelley Winters as Big Haze, I can't even imagine turning her into a Little Charlotte. Or a little anything. She is just so 'there!' :eek: :D
You completely out-imagine me on that one!

And, as for Little Lo growing up, I've tried wondering who/what she would have become, and there I come up short also.

Nabokov, though, seems to suggest 'worn out and old before her time' as a result of her Humbert Experience, as you so neatly put it. And quite possibly destined for a hard unfulfilling life in marginal circumstances forever.

If so, then that is one more crime for Humbert. Not only has he stolen her childhood, he has destroyed her future. Even though he does leave her (her) money and arrange to transfer the rest into her name and leave himself with none. That seems to me like a band-aid way for Nabokov to mitigate her situation (and a very equivocal description, but he did have to end the novel somehow). And it doesn't convince me. I end up seeing her as doomed.

But Lolita without a Humbert Experience? That would probably be a real Rohrschach Test for all of us!

And still my screen is blank,
Peder
 
pontalba said:
Just noticed something in Quilty's apperances in the Annotated version. P. 350, note that "an apperance at a rehersal of his own play, featuring Lolita."

Its one of the scenes omitted, but in the first film, Nabokov did the screenplay, yes? So he used it there. I don't remember that scene in the latter version......don't remember seeing Langella.
Click to expand...
Pontalba,

Yay for the arrival of the Annotated Version! But I can already see that you are now going to be just deadly in this discussion with that weapon in hand! :) :) :)

Yes, Nabokov did do the screenplay for one of the films. I can't say which one without looking. And as for the rest of your comment, nothing rings a bell. :(

I'm beginning to think I'm just not here today. :(

Peder
 
Peder I know, but thanks anyway.:)

Yes, I am sure that VN wrote the screenplay for the first one, with James Mason. And in that version, there was some sort of cocktail party, that may have been the equivilant of the "talk before Charlotte Haze's club". and as I said the rehearsal of his play, I don't remember the other meeting with Mona. Drat, now I do have to purchase the Mason version, I only Netflixed it before. I am fairly positive that Quilty did not make any appearance before the end (and his end) of that latter version. I remember being surprised at Langella's appearance at the end.

As far as Lo living in Marginal Circumstances, I think that the money that Humbert passed on to her (as was her right!), really did away with any bleak future she would have had before her. But of course that is a moot point.:(
 
pontalba said:
Peder I know, but thanks anyway.:)

Yes, I am sure that VN wrote the screenplay for the first one, with James Mason. And in that version, there was some sort of cocktail party, that may have been the equivilant of the "talk before Charlotte Haze's club". and as I said the rehearsal of his play, I don't remember the other meeting with Mona. Drat, now I do have to purchase the Mason version, I only Netflixed it before. I am fairly positive that Quilty did not make any appearance before the end (and his end) of that latter version. I remember being surprised at Langella's appearance at the end.

As far as Lo living in Marginal Circumstances, I think that the money that Humbert passed on to her (as was her right!), really did away with any bleak future she would have had before her. But of course that is a moot point.:(
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Pontalba
Well let's see what the restorative powers of a cup of coffee can accomplish!

Wasn't Peter Sellers = Quilty in the James Mason version? Getting ventilated right in the very beginning? And a million other roles in between, but including all the fleeeting appearances of Quilty as well?

As far as Marginal Circumstances, yes, I think Nabokov did intend to leave the reader with that rosy glow of ample money (the stocks had gone up). So I don't think the point is so moot. I'm just a gloomy reader I suppose.

On the other question, please see next post.
Peder
 
Lolita D.O.B

For any who are thinking of wondering about what sort of future Dolores Haze might have had if she had never met Humbert (or Quilty?), I believe the following is correct:

Dolores "Lolita" Haze Date of Birth = January 1, 1934

One google cite described her as the ultimate 50's teenager.

And BTW anyone can speculate, even without having read the book. So lurkers, please chime in!

Peder
 
Peder Right......Peter Sellers in the first version, and Frank Langella played Quilty in the second version. I don't remember the opening sequence in the first version (Mason), but the Irons version began with the slow driving, didn't it?

I called the money a moot point as being dead, Lolita could not spend it, so it could do her no good. I suppose her husband inherited it. Her death is the thing that pulls at me the most, after all of that not to have the chance to bloom into as full a person as she could have, well, phooey on it!

I now have a list of VN to purchase.............:rolleyes:
 
SFG and StillILearn.......hellooooooooo.......are you there?

Earth to Lurkers et als........come in........come in..............
 
pontalba said:
Peder Right......Peter Sellers in the first version, and Frank Langella played Quilty in the second version. I don't remember the opening sequence in the first version (Mason), but the Irons version began with the slow driving, didn't it?

I called the money a moot point as being dead, Lolita could not spend it, so it could do her no good. I suppose her husband inherited it. Her death is the thing that pulls at me the most, after all of that not to have the chance to bloom into as full a person as she could have, well, phooey on it!

I now have a list of VN to purchase.............:rolleyes:
Click to expand...

pontalba
Slow driving as the opening for the Irons version sounds right, as Humbert is on his way to Ramsdale to take a room in the house that VN burns down. :D

In the Mason version, Humbert is making his way through Quilty's mansion where all the furniture is covered by sheets. He calls out Quilty's name in the Game Room and Quilty appears, drunk as skunk (!), out from under the drapery on one of the chairs, where he has been sitting unseen to that point. A really wild first appearance for a major character in a film!

I hope you have that VN list on a small piece of paper, because such a list can also easily fill a large piece of paper. :) VN was prolific as far as writings were concerned.

Peder
 
Now that you mention it, the covered furniture rings a loud bell.

Only 5 on the list. I inspected part of the Nabokov website last night reading the reviews of what was listed. I already have Vera and Pale Fire, so I have selected:

Bend Sinister
Speak Memory (most promising)
Pnin
Despair
Ada or Ardor

:eek:
 
Correction: Lolita D.O.B.

Peder said:
For any who are thinking of wondering about what sort of future Dolores Haze might have had if she had never met Humbert (or Quilty?), I believe the following is correct:

Dolores "Lolita" Haze Date of Birth = January 1, 1934

One google cite described her as the ultimate 50's teenager.

And BTW anyone can speculate, even without having read the book. So lurkers, please chime in!

Peder
Click to expand...

Yes, well. Now I believe the following is correct

Dolores "Lolita" Haze Date of Birth = January 1, 1935

One year later :eek:

Peder
 
pontalba said:
Now that you mention it, the covered furniture rings a loud bell.

Only 5 on the list. I inspected part of the Nabokov website last night reading the reviews of what was listed. I already have Vera and Pale Fire, so I have selected:

Bend Sinister
Speak Memory (most promising)
Pnin
Despair
Ada or Ardor

:eek:
Click to expand...
Pontalba
Yes I know about "eek." Do I ever!
I bought two more yesterday, and I won't tell you their names. :D But I just decided to check used prices, and when I saw them I decided to brush the dust off the account and run a couple books through it. So now they are coming in the mail. With Speak Memory that makes three in about 2-3 days. Bend Sinister, Despair, and Ada or Ardor I haven't yet had in my hands, or they might have stuck. :eek: Then my list would have looked a lot like yours. I think Speak Memory is the next one I read.

Peder
 
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