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Vladimir Nabokov: Lolita

pontalba said:
I agree about Francis. I love his characters. I know that the hero is always in a way 'the same difference', but he (francis) is a solid story teller.

Time to go finish S is for Silence. :)
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With Francis, I am always more than willing to lay my critical self aside; he is such a dear gentleman.

How are you enjoying the steamy side of Sue G? :D
 
Peder: And, relative to the one-story proposition, he did mention his idea of the "three kinds of stories that could never be published in Ameica." So he just probably did have some "archetypes" consciously in mind that he was ringing the changes on when deciding to start Lolita.
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Off the top of my head, I can't remember where to look for those "three kinds" of unacceptable stories. I do recall that one of them was the story of a successful biracial marriage with tons of progeny living happily ever after. What was the third?

Poor Lo. Has any fictional waif ever been left so totally bereft of any hope of succor? Even the Baudelaires have Mr Poe.
 
pontalba said:
All of the stories you mention above are the man-preys-on-woman theme, but what about the opposite end of the stick? Female-chauvinist that I am, I have to admit that happens a lot as well /sigh/. Black Widow and all that.

But seriously, the 'one-story' theme applies to stories like The Adventurers (Harold Robbins) as the rebels were simply looking for freedom to live as they wished. Any dictator seeking power is only doing so to establish the freedom he needs to carry out whatever agenda he wishes.

So it seems that the seeking of freedom does not necessarily mean pure and altrustic motives. They can be corrupt, as HH's were when he sought power over Lolita, giving himself the freedom to do as he wished.
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Pontalba, and Breaca
Both of you have now pointed to exactly the fact that Lolita ran into someone, two people in fact, who were only interested in satisying their own desires. And now I wonder why I have never thought of those people in the sense of 'seeking freedom.' I have to create the answer, now, that says their ignoble purposes prevent describing them as seeking freedom? If they are at the same suppressing (someone else's) freedom? The first thing actually that comes to mind is calling their behavior 'the law of the jungle' and not 'seeking personal freedom.'

In Lolita it is only her freedom that I think about.

The behavior of oppressors is a part of different way of measuring things, part of an ingrained different archetype. I think 'ingrained' it certainly is. One might also say that an oppressed person seeking their own freedom is at the same time pursung a selfish or self-centered goal, but we don't usually say that either. So that bound up with our idea of the word 'freedom' is the (usually unspoken) idea that it is the kind of freedom that we are also willing to recognize others as having, or that we would wish for ourselves? Liberty and justice (and freedom) for all. Emphasis on the words 'for all?'

So, yes, you are definitely right, the oppressor seeking only his own power or pleasure is a corrupt person and that is how we describe him. He doesn't deserve the freedom that he is claiming for himself and his actions.

But I also have a lighter post :)
See next,
Peder
 
So how old was the girl?

On p81, her twelfth birthday is given as January 1, 1947, the date of the personality inventory that Charlotte filled out.

On p40, HH mentions the diary from which he will quote by heart, "bound in imitation leather, with a golden year [I'll say!] 1947 in its upper left hand corner."

He mentions May 30 as a "Fast Day by Proclamation in New Hampshire" :) and goes on to say "A few days before that I had moved into the Haze house."

So it was a few days before May 30 that he heard Mrs. Haze say "That's my Lo , and these are my lilies."

Then on p41 he begins recounting daily events from the diary, beginning on a Thursday, when he spied her out the bathroom window, and she later sat down next to him, "on the lower step of the back porch" and started picking up pebbles to "chuck them at a can. Ping."

Therefore, your Honor, the girl was just about a month shy of twelve-and-a-half years old when he first took up with her.

The public needs to know :D
Peder
 
StillILearn said:
Off the top of my head, I can't remember where to look for those "three kinds" of unacceptable stories. I do recall that one of them was the story of a successful biracial marriage with tons of progeny living happily ever after. What was the third?

Poor Lo. Has any fictional waif ever been left so totally bereft of any hope of succor? Even the Baudelaires have Mr Poe.
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Chuckling, Still,

The third one was "the total atheist who lives a happy and useful life, and dies in his sleep at the age of 106." :D :D :D I can't help laughing.

From p 314, after the story, in his "On a Book Entitled Lolita."

Now your turn. Who is Mr. Poe?

Peder
 
StillILearn said:
Well, he isn't exactly HH's Mr Poe. :D

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Arthur_Poe

My God, our man does have his way with words:
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Egads, StillILearn!

I can see how far out of things I am when I don't even know who Mr. Poe is. My educatioln has been sadly lacking, apparently. :(

That neckline in your quote reminds me of the polka dotted blue bandanna, mentioned up above by Pontalba, that forced Humbert to rely on his memory for pleasant times in the past. :rolleyes:

MneTnx
Peder
 
A person isn't expected to be a world-class expert on Nabokov and Lemony Snicket at one and the same time, I guess. :rolleyes:
 
StillILearn said:
A person isn't expected to be a world-class expert on Nabokov and Lemony Snicket at one and the same time, I guess. :rolleyes:
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StillILearn,

You are too kind!

World class. Hah! Bah humbug!

But wait til you see what I have next!
Peder
 
For those who still don't have the main event down clearly enough in their minds, I asked one of the Baker Street Irregulars for some help in gathering the evidence. He tells me (via google) that the last week of May 1947 looked like this.

Sun, 25th; Mon, 26th; Tue, 27th; Wed, 28th; Thu 29th; Fri 30th; Sat, 31st.

The keen-eared will recall that HH moved in "a few days before" May 30.
Perhaps the Tuesday or Wednesday of that week?

And that on an undated Thursday he actually met Lo for the first time, or Dolores as he called her then, as she was "taking things off a clothesline" and then came over to sit alongside him on the lower step of the rear porch.

All instinct says that the momentous Thursday had to be May 29 1947, as marked above.

They cannot have lived together in the same house for a whole week, until the next Thursday, before they met. Neither Lo, nor Humbert, would have allowed that to happen!

So that turned into a Memorial Day to remember for Humbert!

And now we all know!
At least that much, :)
Peder
 
StillILearn said:
With Francis, I am always more than willing to lay my critical self aside; he is such a dear gentleman.

How are you enjoying the steamy side of Sue G? :D
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Francis does come across as one of the kindest, most sensitive of fellas, and it always comes out in his hero.
You know the odd thing about Blood Sport was that a bit later in the story, a young daughter of his boss literally throws herself at him, she is about 18ish and he appox 38ish. He resists because of her age, and says maybe down the line. What an opposite of Humbert!

Miss Sue is a bit more graphic in this one, but as I didn't finish last night {:eek: I fell asleep} I don't have all the facts yet. :) I was a little surprised at how young Violet was, the impression was of an older age.
 
Peder said:
For those who still don't have the main event down clearly enough in their minds, I asked one of the Baker Street Irregulars for some help in gathering the evidence. Peder
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I say there Holmes...........:)

They cannot have lived together in the same house for a whole week, until the next Thursday, before they met. Neither Lo, nor Humbert, would have allowed that to happen!
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Too right......couldn't have gotten thru the fog. :eek: Or do I mean steam?

:rolleyes:
 
Sshhh, I'm just quietly tip-toeing about. It's a brave new world this and being the shy type very difficult to take a stand amongst such esteemed HumLo connosseurs. What's a girl to do, (she sighs).
 
Breaca said:
Er? Where is everybody? :confused:
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I've been snoozing. The early morning posts just kill the rest of the day. Plus a big lunch today didn't help matters either. No bright ideas coming from this corner of the world for a while. But I'll be looking in.
Hope that StillILearn hasn't jumped overboard again. :)

Peder
 
Peder said:
Hope that StillILearn hasn't jumped overboard again. :)

Peder
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Man oh Man, I hope everybody hasn't jumped ship!

Earth to Forum..........:eek:

Looks like a Hot Saddiday Night out there.....:rolleyes:

/big huge sigh/

;)
 
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