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What Book Changed Your Political Thinking?

navel gazing?....intellectual masturbation?


At least Marx, Hume, Descartes, and Locke, etc., haven’t had any discernible effect yet.

Marx has had a discernable achievement. For over seventy years, many nations adopted communism in his name(though with their own unique interpretation of it) That is pretty discernable for a man who never lived to his see his works come to political fruition, or to see how his idea would lead the world to the brink of nuclear war in 1961. Yep, pretty small achievement there.:eek:

Hume, Descartes, and Locke were responsible for the rise of republican government and the concept of natural rights. Their writings provided the ideas for the founders to create our American republic. The "enlightened despots" sought to improve freedom of speech, petition, and assembly. From the writings of the Baron de Montesquieu, we get the notion that power should be separated into three separate branches. No discernable effect?, not true, quite the opposite in fact.

Ideas come before economic and political decisions. Milton Friedman labored under the shadow of Keynesian theory for many years. Yet, it was his ideas that have ultimately conquered all, at least in the eyes of mainstream economists, the world bank, and other entities. They have at least come to fruition most notably in Hong Kong and to some degree, the U.S. who continue to outpace the rest of the world who have chosen to implement a mixed-economy that guarantees jobs for life and a generous welfare system that kills growth. Compare the unemployment rate of many European nations to the U.S. and Hong Kong and the comparison is painfully obvious.

It isn't necessarily true that those on top always rule. That criticism is overly simplistic when we have had a senator who was a professor and campaigned out of his van(Paul Wellstone) There are a ton of other examples-I assure you that the U.S. senate and House isn't the property of blue bloods, quite the opposite. the number of Smiths vs. Duponts or Rockefellers in it is proof of this. Anyone can have an effect in local politics and wield some influence, it's just a matter of desiring to do so. If you want to run in the upper echelon of politics, then you aim to attend an elite university and make connections. With effort, it can be done. Enlightenment writers never promised to rid the world of inequality, to criticms for it, is to not adequately give them the credit they are due.
 
SFG, you fail once again to see my point, which is that those with enough money don't need to hold political office in order to run the country. The average senator is powerless compared with a Phelps, Phipps, or Aldrich. My point is that 'politics' as you refer to it is a facade, behind which the rich make the important decisions, such as whether a certain oilfield is strategically important, whether it's time to endorse and invest in a certain alternative fuel, or whether trade between Mexico and the US should be manipulated and how. The politicians may vote to enact these policies, but they certainly don't make them.

As for Marxism, I can't think of a country that successfully implemented it as written, can you? I think the overwhelming and fairly immediate result of those theoretical experiments were real totalitarian nightmares.

And it was NOT the philosohers who made democratic republics, it was people like Paine and Franklin who used the media to promote democratic ideas and social cooperative services (going back to my earlier point).
 
As for Marxism, I can't think of a country that successfully implemented it as written, can you? I think the overwhelming and fairly immediate result of those theoretical experiments were real totalitarian nightmares.

The matter at hand wasn't about if they were successful, it was if they had a "discernable effect." Given the fact that more than a handful of countries experimented with it and that the system gave us a good run for our money, it is rather trite thing to say that Marx didn't have any discernable effect in his writing about politics. If his ideas had only stayed in his books, then perhaps he could be accused of being guilty of intellectual masturbation, but alas, that characterization is seriously not valid. Likewise, the enlightenment writers were responsible for "reform" style governments and "enlightened despotism." While not perfect, they provided the groundwork in their writings for the subsequent development of freedom of speech, petition, and other basic rights. Accusing them of navel-gazing is just ludicrous when they are credited with so much.

And it was NOT the philosohers who made democratic republics, it was people like Paine and Franklin who used the media to promote democratic ideas and social cooperative services (going back to my earlier point

We get the idea of separation of powers from the Baron de Montesequieu. Locke, Hume, and Rousseau were read by Jefferson and others. The idea for a republican form of government didn't just hit them on the head all of a sudden. Social cooperative services? The revolution was fought to have libraries and franklin stoves? Sorry, it was about the social contract, taxation, and what constitutes the right of man. I'll grant you that the middle class merchants sought to have more money from themselves as historians like Charles Beard have pointed out. Franklin and Paine were among the implementers, but their ideas were hardly the seed of it. They took the ideas and in the case of Paine, created an awesome form of propaganda that was compelling and that spoke to some of those ideals with a dash of self-interest.

Can you explain how Franklin's ideas were more a part of the Declaration of Independence than say any of the enlightenment writers?
 
I think the most interesting and true political insight does not come from political treatises, which have almost no relationship to reality, but from history, particularly the true dealings of individuals.....


damn right honey ...:D


All the political theory in the world won’t change the reality of who really runs world affairs..


Now you are not right honey but honey is super right :flowers:

At least I have found some people who can understand the reality , I am the only one in my place who understand that.
 
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