What did Thumper's Daddy say?

[Motokid]

Thanks lovermuffin and sar for adding your thoughts, along with acolyte.

This thread is an offshout of the constructive criticism thread. This conversation really deals with the way new members are recieved and responded to, and reacted with, across the entire forum. Not just the Writers Showcase section.

There is almost a frat-house mentality about the General Chat area that does take getting used to. You need to give it time and really, for the most part, you need to participate, and ask questions, and have fun. As was stated earlier, getting involved requires getting involved. There are established "friendships" , but that does not mean that there isn't room for more at the bar. Remember your first day at a new school? First day at a new job? First day at camp? Feeling alone, left out, ignored...until you joined the soccer team, or were forced to sit down at a lunch table with a bunch of other people......


Here's my suggestion. If you want to get involved in a discussion, start your own thread. Ask us a question. Basically you have the party, and invite us to attend. Then you'll be an integral part of the conversation.

 

[Sar]

First of all, thank you to Acolyte who always knows the much better (& often diplomatic) way of explaining a situation. Also, thank you to mr_michel & Martin for your kind words.

Now, to explain a little better then I did late last night when very tired (though nowhere near the level of Martin) I have nothing at all against heavy posters, nope, not even one teeny little bit. I have had several people treat me in a very welcoming fashion during the short time I have been on this board - Jenn, Martin, Halo & Rogue are the names that first spring to mind - apologies for those who haven't been mentioned. *makes mental note to add mr_michel to the list*


Wabbit - I have attempted to make the effort with others, but the point is as somebody new you are expected to make all the effort to get noticed whilst everyone goes about their normal business. Also, I don't feel you can truly compare a forum with the atmosphere of a work place. In a work place, you can convey emotion via body language, you are able to have much less linear conversations then the structure of a forum dictates and you do tend to have much more inclusive conversations.

Not long after I joined this board all hell seemed to break lose, the person who originally suggested the site told me to bear with it, things weren't always like this, however it still feels like being in the midst of an ongoing feud. Admittedly, one side seems more determined to keep dragging it down, whilst the other is attempting to move on.

Please try to remember that I didn't post here to attack anyone, merely to offer some explanation of why I personally have, at times, felt extremely uncomfortable here. I appreciate that not everyone feels this way & that some very strong friendships have obviously been formed here - so please don't think I only have a negative view of the book forum, as that would be untrue.

 

[Geenh]

I must admit that I have been rude once or twice... sorry.

I do find two people on this board rude and full of themselves. They know who they are.

I think that we should just have an attitude that this is a fun place and let us not cast stones! Everyone has bad days, everyone gets annoyed and lashes out on the people who cannot truly mess up their lives (i.e. the 'net). I think most of you are amazing people and I have enjoyed and will (hopefully) continue to enjoy you!

I feel bad for the newbies that get bashed immediately! The 'yawn' comment is the occasion I feel was inappropriate. Anyway...

As a wise one once said "Why don't we all just try to get along".

 

[mehastings]

This thread was started over my vacation and at first I was just going to stay out of it, but I've finally decided I might have something relevent to throw into the fray.

I'm not sure, but I think I may have interpreted the point that Sar and Acolyte were making a bit differently than you folks did. To me it didn't seem that they were saying that they felt unwelcomed by the heavier posters or intimidated by the friendships between those who have been here for longer. It seemed to me that sometimes new people (or old people) will go into a thread that interests them and post while everyone else is in the middle of some ongoing, totally off topic discussion. Then, their posts seem to get overlooked and nobody really replies to them.

I can honestly see where they are coming from. After being away for two weeks I came back to thousands of new posts and some interesting new topics. However, I found that quite a few of the most recent discussions had actually long since veered off out beyond left field into the parking lot of one liners and silliness. Even this conversation had a little intermission about feet a couple days ago. Sometimes I choose to post anyway, but often I just figure "why bother? The discussion is clearly over". Now, this doesn't make me feel uncomfortable or unwelcome (often it just makes me laugh), but I'm also not particularly interested in joining in or sometimes even reading it if it goes on for pages. It's nothing personal at all, it's just not my cup of tea. I can see why some newer people might be put off though. They may feel that their posts are being ignored when they might really just be posting in threads where the topical discussion is long since over.

Is there a way to solve this? Probably not, unless we all wanted to agree to have one or two sticky threads for personal "chat room style" discussions instead of letting other discussions get off topic. Another forum I'm a member of does this and it works very well. As a whole, I think the heavier posters here are very welcoming to new people and undoubtely nobody should be "blamed".

 

[Kookamoor]

Sar, I'm so sorry to hear you feel unhappy here. I most certainly have noticed you around here and have enjoyed your input. I recall a number of comments when you changed your avatar - the new one is very funky, but I still think of you as looking like your old one . I'm a relative newbie myself and things did fly somewhat off the handle a little while ago, around about when you joined, unfortunately. Although it was somewhat offputting, I mainly stayed away from those threads that were volitile and concentrated on the books that I originally came here for.

I found it initially hard to fit in around here as well. I think we all go through it. I only posted on the book-related boards at first, and as I got to know people's personalities I became more comfortable with the General Chat section.

I'm sorry that not everyone is happy around here, and I truly do hope that you stick around, Sar, and continue to post about the books you are reading.

mehastings asked if there is a way to solve the problems identified, and I think that we are working towards it through this thread. Firstly we've identified some concerns, and are becoming more aware of what new members expect. Perhaps the idea of a chatroom-style sticky in the general chat is a good idea to consider. Perhaps those so-called 'Heavy Posters' would like to comment on whether this would be a fun idea for them?

 

[Motokid]

I don't think some kind of chat room sticky would work well. Who's going to leave a thread on something like education and discipline, to go to the sticky to post a comment about Martin's anchovie breath, or jenn's sneakers or whatever? And then there would be all kinds of posts about "hey novella, why don't you join me over in the chat sticky so we can make fun of geenh."

The general chat area, in an of itself, is the sticky isn't it? It's the anything goes, call the shots as you wish, part of the forum that has no boundries other than no politics and no religion. I'm not sure there's needs to be a sub-section of something that already is the sub-section of The Book Forum.

Just my 2 cents...I guess I'm a heavy poster huh?

 

[Martin]

A single thread for off-topic banter? I don't think that'd work.

Some threads lend themselves perfectly for off-topicness (yay, a new word), and some don't. Take this thread, for instance - of course it went off-topic at one point, every thread does, but if the initial query is interesting enough, it'll veer back on topic soon enough. And it did.

A possible solution for this would be splitting the General Chat in two separate subfora - one for mindless threads about cute kittens and what not, in which one can spam to one's heart's desire. Post a thread there, and you accept the 'risk' of it getting swamped by BS; and one for the threads which are more likely to garner an actual discussion, much like this one, and, well, every other thread Motokid (who smells of elderberry) starts.

What do you think?

Cheers

 

[muggle]

Georgie porgie
Pudding and pie
Kissed the girls and made them cry
When the boys came out to play
He kissed them too
He's funny that way.

 

[mr_michel]

i have to disagree with novella and martin here, base on experience, im a member in another huge forum, which uses an spambox which is deleted weekly, and so far in all my time as a interned addict, its the forum in which most public discussion threads keeps on topic, i would say easily up to 95% of them.
also have watch forums with shoutboxes with similar effects.

 

[mehastings]

A possible solution for this would be splitting the General Chat in two separate subfora - one for mindless threads about cute kittens and what not, in which one can spam to one's heart's desire. Post a thread there, and you accept the 'risk' of it getting swamped by BS; and one for the threads which are more likely to garner an actual discussion, much like this one, and, well, every other thread Motokid (who smells of elderberry) starts.

What do you think?

I think that is a fabulous idea. Of course, it is also something that we would all need to agree to, which may be hard. I agree that the one or two sticky posts might be difficult to keep working. I thought about it afterwards and the forum I've seen it work in is work related and only has about 25 members total (because we just delete people who aren't active or stop working for us).

The general chat area, in an of itself, is the sticky isn't it? It's the anything goes, call the shots as you wish, part of the forum that has no boundries other than no politics and no religion.

This, I totally disagree with. General Chat is the area for discussions that don't fit into the other categories. So, pretty much everything not relating to Film & TV, Writing and of course books. Although I agree that thread hijacking is inherent in a subforum like General Chat, I don't think every single thread necessarily needs to be fair game.




I think an idea like Martin's is a good one. When I first join a forum I often find that the Off Topic section is where I feel the most comfortable posting. It is a great place to get a feel for the other members before jumping into the more serious sections. I think it is a shame that new members would feel uncomfortable posting in that area. I never did, but perhaps it wasn't like this as much...I don't know.

 

[novella]

i have to disagree with novella and martin here, base on experience, im a member in another huge forum, which uses an spambox which is deleted weekly, and so far in all my time as a interned addict, its the forum in which most public discussion threads keeps on topic, i would say easily up to 95% of them.
also have watch forums with shoutboxes with similar effects.

Are you sure you mean me?
Don't think I've said anything related.

 

[mr_michel]

Are you sure you mean me?
Don't think I've said anything related.

what can i say? i like to dissagre with you
just kidding, you are right and i apologize, i meant motokid

 

[jenn]

i'm kinda guessing that i am in the heavy poster category, and i know i am guilty of going off topic. i write how i speak, and in life, if something strikes me funny, i say it. and as in life, it is not always welcome. so my apologies.
however, as someone who is still relatively new, regardless of the amount of my posts, i have to say, just throw yourself in there. i did. i didn't join in jan and know all the in-jokes or have relationships with people. i threw myself in and went for it.
i hope i have not alienated people, but i do feel like with any relationship, it is 50/50.
as to the solution i have no clue. i will personally try to only spam my own threads, or be foolish in threads that are foolish. but sometimes, like life, conversations evolve and there is nothing wrong with going "what were we talking about? oh yeah....." and back on topic.

 

[Wabbit]

Wabbit - I have attempted to make the effort with others, but the point is as somebody new you are expected to make all the effort to get noticed whilst everyone goes about their normal business. Also, I don't feel you can truly compare a forum with the atmosphere of a work place. In a work place, you can convey emotion via body language, you are able to have much less linear conversations then the structure of a forum dictates and you do tend to have much more inclusive conversations.

Not long after I joined this board all hell seemed to break lose, the person who originally suggested the site told me to bear with it, things weren't always like this, however it still feels like being in the midst of an ongoing feud. Admittedly, one side seems more determined to keep dragging it down, whilst the other is attempting to move on.

Please try to remember that I didn't post here to attack anyone, merely to offer some explanation of why I personally have, at times, felt extremely uncomfortable here. I appreciate that not everyone feels this way & that some very strong friendships have obviously been formed here - so please don't think I only have a negative view of the book forum, as that would be untrue.

Hi Sar

I don't think you have a negative view and in my reply you seem to take it that I am having a go at you, which I am not!

I think you can compare a forum to anything else such as new job or club. You have to stick around for awhile, get known, and get to know people. The more you put in the more you will get out of it. It's just a simple truth.

Anyway, I think this is a forum. Feel free to PM me any time with any concerns or if you want a chat! Same goes for anybody else. And especially if you want to arrange to send me either money or chocolate!

 

[Renee]

The forum is just like anywhere else. Start a new job? It's full of people you don't know that joke and laugh and talk about stuff you that goes over you head. Join a new club? Same thing. Start a new school? Same thing. Why is the forum going to be any different? Mostly the people that complain of feeling left out are the people that don't post much ( no disrespect )

Time and joining in will change things. Just like a new job or a new school or new club it takes time to get to know everybody and for them to get to know you. I don't think there is anything odd or unfriendly in this. It's just the way life works

It just takes awhile! Be patient! Get to know us! Join in! We are a friendly bunch really. Well, most of us

I disagree - but then I can only speak from my own personal experiences.

I do very well in real-world social settings, regardless of how uncomfortable and nervous I am. People often find me amusing and generally fun to be around. My body-language, voice, and expression make clear my intent when I speak. Online I find I'm often misunderstood. I have an incredibly hard time connecting well enough with people that I am NOT misunderstood. I can only assume that people read into what I say and decide that I'm simply not worth the time and attention. Honestly, I find myself hopping from forum to forum because after a few months either I'm not getting along with anyone or everyone seems to be ignoring me. The issue with heavy posters for someone like me (no offense intended) is that they are they ones that the majority will tend to follow. Whomever they do not acknowledge, others will not acknowledge. That is just my perception though.

For me, at least, this isn't anything at all like getting a new job or going to a party in which I don't really know anyone.

 

[Sar]

I'm not sure, but I think I may have interpreted the point that Sar and Acolyte were making a bit differently than you folks did. To me it didn't seem that they were saying that they felt unwelcomed by the heavier posters or intimidated by the friendships between those who have been here for longer. It seemed to me that sometimes new people (or old people) will go into a thread that interests them and post while everyone else is in the middle of some ongoing, totally off topic discussion. Then, their posts seem to get overlooked and nobody really replies to them

Both Acolyte and I are realistic & we both appreciate how easy it is for things to easily get misinterpreted over the internet - I admit that I'm the one normally guilty of the latter, but you will just have to get used to the fact that Acolyte is far too perfect mehastings was more accurate with what I meant & apologies to anyone who thought that: a) I was attacking them b) I felt attacked by anyone else as neither of these were the case. My post in this forum is not an attempt to point a finger of blame at anyone, not an attempt to be a martyr or even an attempt to seek attention. As I orignally stated, were it not for the PM I most probably wouldn't have returned to TBF, but I'm sticking around for a bit longer to see how things work out.

As a wise one once said "Why don't we all just try to get along"

Geenh – you really shouldn’t be taking advice from such naive optimists

And finally, to Wabbit – there is no way in this universe anyone is ever getting chocolate out of me, though I am willing to offer three children, a random key I found floating around which I have no idea what it unlocks & two pieces of fluff.

 

[jenn]

see at this point i would say to sar, " i will take that key, i've been locked out of the top drawer of my curio cabinet for weeks." but then i would be spamming, must resist....the urge......to spam.......

 

[Ell]

It seemed to me that sometimes new people (or old people) will go into a thread that interests them and post . . . Then, their posts seem to get overlooked and nobody really replies to them.

This happens to me all the time. Although I try to rationalize and tell myself it's because of the time zone difference.

But seriously, I hope all you newbies are not put off by the strong personalities and the sometimes zany, sometimes snippy comments that are thrown out there. If you hang around long enough, you're sure to find some like-minded souls on these boards.

ell

 

[Motokid]

This area is called the General Chat.
The description is simply: "General area to chat off-topic"

To me, chat off-topic means just what it says. It's a group conversation. Group conversations dart all over the place, and little side talks happen then disappear, and so on. It's a living conversation that has the ability to move anywhere we decide to take it. I don't see a problem within the General Chat area.

I think the self-policing thing is all that's needed. If you see a tangent being run that takes a discussion way off target you have the right, and the ability to post a request to "please, can we come back to topic" and then carry on. In a way, each and every one of us is a moderator in that if we want serious threads we can ask for, and keep threads serious.

This thread was originally started about truely negative posts, and dis-respectful posts. While spamming and goofy antics that run amuck on occasion might be difficult for new members to follow, I think when you have a group of people together, that enjoy each other, you are never going to be able to get away from the occasional sillyness.

Sillyness, or having fun, or joking around is not a bad thing.

Isn't that exactly what this area is all about? If all I know about you is you've never read Rich Dad/Poor Dad then I'm probably missing a whole lot of cool stuff. Right?

 

[Wabbit]

I always found the "stay on topic" thing rather strange. If you were having a conversation with some friends about classic sports cars and the conversation veered onto what's the best road side cafe would one of your friends scream "STAY ON TOPIC!"?????

Conversation are, and surely, should be living organic things. They shouldn't be dusty dead. The quote button is made so you can reply to whatever interests you. It's not really such a big deal to skip over the stuff you are not interested in. Sometimes the thread can get really off topic and into another interesting debate. Hopefully when this happens one of us mods can split the thread.

Another point I want to make. It often comes up that people want this or they don't like that. To these people I say, you want a perfect world. There are things I don't like but I live with them. There are always going to be things that irritate you or that you would rather be done a different way. This is simply personal preference. There are many things in life we don't like but oh well. That's just life. The thing to do is concentrate on the bits you DO like rather than the negative points. Just my 2 cents/pence/insert your currency here.