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What the Hell?! Post deletion blows!

Well, since this thread hasn't been closed yet on the grounds that it is talking about about moderation, I'll chip in two cent's worth.

First cent. I think most of us would agree with the idea of only discussing the content of posts and not making disparaging remarks about the authors of said posts. I think we can all see the difference between author and content. However, agreeing with that principle doesn't really solve the matter because an "author" is really quite justified in feeling that someone called him stupid, when the person might claim, even accurately so, that they only called the "content" of his post stupid. Just as one might say of this post, that it is a stupid post so far. Perhaps one might think of behaving on the web in the same manner as one would behave in face-to-face conversation. And now I realize that I really have offered a really stupid idea! :eek:

Second cent. It seems to me that there has been much more "grooming" of the site going on lately, with threads being rearranged, and posts moved or deleted. Has there been a change in management attitude? Perhaps for good reason having to do with the face we present to the world, or maybe just the world of potential advertisers? But there does seem to have been a change, for whatever reason. Just OMO.

And now I can be shot for not submitting a PM.
I am sorry that I have but one post to give for my life, :)
Peder
 
It's amazing how even the most "open and shut" case becomes once again an opportunity to criticise the moderation here.

I'm not going to start a discussion about whether the removed posts were rude/hateful/harassing etc., because to put it very succinctly, some members thought the posts were, we agreed, the posts were deleted, a PM was sent to the members involved, case closed. Nobody got warned, nobody got banned, and I think all this is completely unnecessary. Us mods and Darren used our judgement, came to a decision and carried out the action we did. Some might think it was the wrong decision, but we're never going to get 100% agreement on anything we do. Contrary to what some think, we don't go around deleting posts for no reason - why would we when we know we're going to get flack like this every time someone has their post deleted?

SFG75 said:
No matter what it is-leave it up!. That way, those who are in the wrong, know what they've done and everyone else does to.
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So if someone posts a really nasty insult to someone, we leave it up there in full view for everyone to laugh at? Charming. That's a great way to encourage people to join, knowing that the comments ridiculing them are going to be left in public view forever.

And to address the second part of your quote, SFG, the problem with that is that 99% of the time those who are in the wrong refuse to accept that they are.

SFG said:
On top of that, when a thread is deleted, TELL THE PERSON!. A lot of negativity and bad feelings can be smoothed over with communication.
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We do try to. If you read post #4 from mehastings, you will see that she apologised for not letting people know, and she explained why.
 
Stewart said:
You're not helping.
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What I meant, simply, was that if TBF chooses to handle every administrative/moderation type issue behind the sceens, with pm's and emails only, hidden from the general membership, then they have to expect the same issues to crop up every 3 to 6 months or so.

Which is exactly what we see here. Which is exactly what we saw a few months ago with the link I provided. Which is exactly what we saw a few months before that....
 
Halo said:
So if someone posts a really nasty insult to someone, we leave it up there in full view for everyone to laugh at? Charming. That's a great way to encourage people to join, knowing that the comments ridiculing them are going to be left in public view forever.
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Ding ding! We all know newbies can't use common sense to search the forum archives (where the bad post will go) so what's the problem.
 
And now we get to the real truth of the matter. This forum is only concerned with its appearance to newcomers, rather than keeping its current members as well.
 
Stewart said:
Ding ding! We all know newbies can't use common sense to search the forum archives (where the bad post will go) so what's the problem.
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I recently joined a cooking forum and within an hour or so of posting my introduction, I had a very nice pm from one of the moderators, not only welcoming me, but offering to help me get the hang of how things work at this forum. The message told me about a few frequently used terms that might have taken me a long time to decipher otherwise..in short, it was a friendly and most helpful message. I wonder if something similar might be useful here. A welcoming pm, pointing out certain features like the search engine,and explaining some of our unwritten ettiquette. When I first came here, I didn't realize it searched within the forum until a certain established member pointed it out to me...and I'm glad he did too.
 
steffee said:
And now we get to the real truth of the matter. This forum is only concerned with its appearance to newcomers, rather than keeping its current members as well.
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Hardly. No-one here, be they newbies or established members, should have to put up with being harassed/bullied/attacked etc. That's why we have a rule pertaining to this. Although I pointed out that an unfriendly attitude from people wouldn't encourage people to join, it doesn't encourage existing members to stay either. It takes a brave person to post if they think their spelling/grammar/punctuation/title of their thread/use of smilies is going to be pounced on and pulled to pieces.

And surely established members should know what is in the Membership Agreement, and therefore shouldn't be making inappropriate posts, especially the sheer number that were evident in the Most Whackest Books thread before they were deleted.
 
Stewart said:
It's much better to discuss problems openly on a thread than in a series of PMs.
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So you'd rather that we post an announcement or public reply every time something needs moderating or someone needs reminding about the rules? Is that how you handle people in real life? At work? Publically warn them infront of everyone rather than taking them aside and having a quiet word?
 
Thanks for your replies Halo, it's much appreciated. Yes, leave personally insulting and offesnive posts up for all to see!. It will be buried with time and easily referenced if you guys need to remind someone of their behavior. When posts are deleted, then we get this "he said, she said" hand-wringing and it makes it more complicated as yet again-we have a thread about deletions and that kind of thing. Transparency is a good thing. I personally don't know the circumstances around ions's complaint, but now that his posts are gone, how has the issue been clarified at all? Just something to consider. I understand you guys won't leave the posts up, so can I have an edit button for when I make horrid grammatical mistakes?;) :eek:

And yes, stewart is correct. If newbies can't find an old Dan Brown thread and create the 1,786th Dan Brown thread instead, then how are they going to find an insult buried in some thread somewhere to gloat and laugh at?
 
I wasn't going to post in this thread, but then I got a PM warning me about my "posting trend" (it was identical to the one that Stewart posted in the "Rude Posting" thread - which is now closed I see :rolleyes: ).

I am opposed to my posts being deleted when only a select few see them as rude - I didn't write them to be rude or insulting but to express my viewpoint, yet suddenly it seems that other people are the better judges of what my intentions were. It seems that the moderation on this site is topsy-turvy - when an overwhelming majority of people vote for a particular feature to be added the moderation team decide not to impliment it, yet when only a few people become overly-sensitive regarding a few posts, they are the ones who are heard and the posts are deleted. Does that not show that there is something wrong with the system?

As Moto pointed out, we have conversations like this every couple of months - so why has nothing been fixed yet?

Just my 2 cents,
MC
 
Not that I am taking sides here on any front, I have to agree with mods and the admin on this. This is their site and they can choose what to do with what they want to. Unfortunately, that means that the membership have to play by the rules they have set up.

I have been involved with a few confrontations with on a fan board that I am a member on; told one of them to piss off (she deserved it by the way). Anyways, I was told to delete the post, which I did (somebody quoted the post ;); but can't remember what page it was on....).

I have also been in the middle of my "shipper" friends fights and just ignore their PMs (one of them was to ignore one of their stories and not to respond to it.

So, I guess to respond to those of you who are having "issue" with the mods and admins, respect them and they will respect you back and we won't have issues surrounding deleted posts. :D
 
You know what? There was a forum I visited which deleted my post. First time, I accepted it. Second time, I voted with my feet and left. Not a whimper of protest, nothing, no communication. Just left it... as simple as that.

Point is, people aren't going to stay behind if you adopt an aggressive moderation policy. Moderation is the art of diplomacy. Not a show of power. Having the power to moderate is no big deal. Having the persuasive skills to influence people is.

Respect cannot be demanded - it has to be earned, by both sides.

I'd like the staff here to read this wonderful article: I shared it with my mods on my own sites and I hope you guys can benefit from it.

The forum moderator's guide to life

And for those members who simply cannot break away, no matter how much they dislike a community, here's an article I wrote on TAZ:

How to leave a community or stop posting at a forum
 
MonkeyCatcher said:
I wasn't going to post in this thread, but then I got a PM warning me about my "posting trend" (it was identical to the one that Stewart posted in the "Rude Posting" thread - which is now closed I see :rolleyes: ).
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There seems to be a lot of people on this forum that take it as a personal insult when someone disagrees with them. Unfortunately it seems that its the same people that reports posts to the mods for deletion.

The forum is looking more and more like a chatroom for a certain group of people, where any real discussion is frowned upon.
 
Ell made a wonderful suggestion. In effect she said:

Go on ahead and make the kinds of posts that you would like to be reading.
 
StillILearn said:
Ell made a wonderful suggestion. In effect she said:

Go on ahead and make the kinds of posts that you would like to be reading.
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I think that is a wonderful suggestion.
However, I don't know whether it is true here, but I know there are people in the world (and on other forums) who don't mind at all -- even enjoy -- the rough and tumble of 'vigorous' discussion, with expletives, profanity, and blue colored flames surrounding the body blows and lightning bolts. Needless to say that is to be discouraged, but people do have different standards and sometimes need splainin' My hope is that the explaining would be conciliatory rather than peremptory.
My own desired image of a forum is of a large family, sometimes unruly perhaps, but nobody hardly ever gets thrown out of a family, and tolerance is there for the occasional wayward members, with a view toward keeping everyone in, not out.

We can all have ideals can't we? :rolleyes:
Peder
 
Peder speaks the somewhat rare language of old fashioned courtesy and reason -- with a hint of a Russian accent, of course. ;)

Edit: Ayayay! And a little bit of Cuban, sometimes.
 
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