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Why does crap float to the top?

avidreader55 said:
What is life without reaching beyond yourself to bry to be something more - better, if you will?
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lol, what is life without reaching beyond to bry? I like this. I'm liking it a lot. please, go with whatever emotion triggered that statement. irene? come here ... listen to this guy, he's brilliant. look what he said. "reach beyond to bry." that is perhaps the most profound statement I've ever read. but it continues ... "to be something more." yes! that's it. "better, if you will." YES!

bry. is. the man.
 
Now Mr. Burns,

If I were called on the carpet for every typo I ever committed, I'd be spending my next 40 years there.

The meaning was clear in context, and that's what was important.

Irene Wilde
 
I don't think the majority of people are stupid, they are ignorant. The distinction is that ignorance can be fixed, they mostly just don't choose to. Real, honest, good for nothing stupidity is rarer than experience would suggest. If someone can't read beyond a 4th grade level, but they can replace my transmission, who am I to call them stupid? I couldn't do it, which is why I pay them so handsomely.

Literature is challenging. Even I don't go in for it all the time. But a lot of it is that some fine books that might find a wider audience aren't marketed that way. If a Marquez novel came out in mass market with a flashy cover, I don't know that he'd be a bestseller for longer than a few weeks but I bet he'd hang for awhile.

Anyway, aren't you some of the same people who were castigating Oprah for bringing lit to the masses? She's created some bestsellers that were definitely out of the norm.
 
I would castigate Oprah for many things, but not for encouraging her audience to read. Literacy is the gateway out of ignorance.

Irene Wilde
 
We kinda finished what we thought in the first two pages of argument, so I'm not going to get back in topic unless it's to help Burns make fun of someone :). Anyway, the Oprah issue was clearly stated as one that wasn't liked because of WHY people were reading those books.

Basically one half said who cares at least their reading.
The other said why is important and the lady with the lypo on tv doesn't need to be a reason, people should choose for themselves....
anyway.......that's all folks ;)
 
may I ask why the comparison between readers to "non-readers"? you read for the same reason others do drugs, have sex, drive their cars really fast and watch t.v.--it's a form of escape.
 
Reading provides something that some of those other things don't It develops your thoughts, philosophies, opinions and encourages new paths, which some of those don't do, at least not to the same level.

I noticed that what a lot of people don't like about Eddings, for example, is that he's repetitive. But that seems to be what a lot of readers are looking for, a comfortable place to go with few real surprises.
 
I agree reading enhances your thinking and gives you knowledge, but if deconstruction has taught us anything it is that all that stuff is just thought chasing its own tail. it's still another form of ignorance.
 
Mr. Burns,

You and I have had this conversation before! :) And I still refuse to come to your well-thought-out conclusion. I still believe there's a great leap forward to make and one day we'll get around to making it.

As someone said upthread "Half full! Half full!"

Irene Wilde
 
BE WARNED: THIS IS NOT FOLLOWING THE THREAD, BUT I would like to take a few moments to reply to some of the comments which have been made either to me or about me:

Please note that this question, “if you can define your version of intelligence, and why that makes one elite, I'd appreciate it.” was sincere. It wasn’t to change the topic. I really wanted to know the answer to the question so I that I could better understand how each person on the thread was thinking and why they were thinking that way.

Why did I use the term elite? First, it was used by Beatryzce “the literature and films of high quality can't be understood by many people, because they are made for intelectual elites.”

Second, True@1stLight made the comments, “Did you really think that the majority of people on this earth let alone this country are intelligent?! Hehe, it's nice if you think so, but it's a dream. I can safely say that a majority of the people I meet are far to stupid to read the likes of the authors you just mentioned. This combined with the fact that because they can't understand it they fail to enjoy it, and perhaps intellectual stimulation in general.” “But just think if these people did'nt exist, what fun would it be being an
elitist.” (smiley face) “The majority of individuals follow the masses thereby qualifying them in my book as not being very intelligent.” “you really think you will find a smart person more than 1 out of every 2 people. I think in some places you'd be lucky to find one in a hundred.”

I asked the question because it seemed to me from reading these things that one was considered an intellectual elite if he read certain books with understanding. Please pardon the question as, apparently, it was inappropriate to this topic.

Why did I write, “What is life without reaching beyond yourself to bry to be something more - better, if you will?” (I’ll even leave in my typo)

This was in no way a judgmental statement. I meant “better” in comparison with myself, not with others. Using True@1stLight’s words, I am “certainly seeking to gain something rather than lose it”

As for Mr. Burns’s statement, "listen to this guy, he's brilliant. look what he said. "reach beyond to bry." that is perhaps the most profound statement I've ever read. but it continues ... "to be something more." yes! that's it. "better, if you will." YES!

You need not answer this, Mr. Burns, it is a rhetorical (but once again, sincere) question. What is sadly lacking in your life that you have to build yourself up by tearing others down?
 
avidreader, I honestly didn't mean for it to be condescending. I'm sorry. since my name is bryan I thought irene would find it kinda funny. but somehow, that wasn't the way it was perceived.
 
irene, we need knowledge for certain things like science, architecture, medicine and building a better mouse trap, but so far knowledge, ideas and the mind (which are all one thing) have not solved our human problems and I don't think they ever will. because thinking is a reaction--it's a response according to your memory, your conditioning, and all the experiences you've accrued during your life. it is partial. so you may think there's some solution out there, but you'll never find it because you'll never see it through all of your prejudices. if thought could solve our human problems somehow, if it were possible see the relationship between you and me clearly through the screen thought (which is illogical), don't you think we'd have found a solution by now? but the more we think over a problem and analyse it, the more complex it becomes. so instead of trying see to the problem clearly, we escape through our books and through video games and drugs and really fast cars. our dependence on them, not the things themselves, is what makes us ignorant.
 
bobbyburns said:
avidreader, I honestly didn't mean for it to be condescending. I'm sorry. since my name is bryan I thought irene would find it kinda funny. but somehow, that wasn't the way it was perceived.
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Well that certainly changes things. :) For some reason, don't ask me why, I thought your name might be Bobby or even Robert. Rereading what you wrote in the context of your name actually being Bryan is so much more fun on my end of the comment.
 
may i comment on this whole thread? "yes" thank you! anyway, this is an insult to those of us who appreciate eddings! your calling me stupid for liking eddings? also your talking about a matter of opinion not intelligence, i understand books that are on a different lvl then eddings, but i may not enjoy them!
 
bobbyburns said:
avidreader, I honestly didn't mean for it to be condescending. I'm sorry. since my name is bryan I thought irene would find it kinda funny. but somehow, that wasn't the way it was perceived.
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Now, Bobby, you know how hard it is for me to keep a thought in my head, let alone attempt to maintain a continuous train of thought! :) Through my limited powers of concentration, I completely missed the connection. Forgive me?

Irene Wilde
 
bobbyburns said:
irene, we need knowledge for certain things like science, architecture, medicine and building a better mouse trap, but so far knowledge, ideas and the mind (which are all one thing) have not solved our human problems (emphasis added) and I don't think they ever will. because thinking is a reaction--it's a response according to your memory, your conditioning, and all the experiences you've accrued during your life. it is partial. so you may think there's some solution out there, but you'll never find it because you'll never see it through all of your prejudices. if thought could solve our human problems somehow, if it were possible see the relationship between you and me clearly through the screen thought (which is illogical), don't you think we'd have found a solution by now? but the more we think over a problem and analyse it, the more complex it becomes. so instead of trying see to the problem clearly, we escape through our books and through video games and drugs and really fast cars. our dependence on them, not the things themselves, is what makes us ignorant.
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Because you, or I, or all those that came before, fail to find the solution, does not mean that thinking in terms of solution is an "escape." The human species continues to evolve, we are a "work in progress." By challenging ourselves, collecting our wisdom, passing it along, and providing inspiration to those who will come after us, we do, I think, improve are chances that one day we'll find, maybe not universal solutions, but more solutions than we have now.

You'll never rob me of my cosmic optimism, Mr. Burns, no matter how hard you try. But keep trying. It's always thought-provoking, and perhaps some of the other members will find our discourse entertaining. :)

Irene Wilde
 
irene, ok, you're optimistic: you've sacrificed the present for the future. you have hope that a solution will come someday, and I'm telling you that is part of the problem. if we think tomorrow we will change, we're inviting confusion, we're trying to plan ahead because our minds are too ignorant to confront the problem immediately. you have to be able to see that, otherwise none of this is going to make any sense. just forget "solutions". anything can be a solution. the nazis believed in the "final solution", the systematic annihilation of the jews. we believe in other ideas and systems, means of transforming the world. that is what has become important. and it is all over, in schools, churches, books, and in our minds. humans no longer have any significance. we can destroy millions, even if only destroyed in our minds, as long as the result is justified by ideas.
 
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