Another, is it time to legalize thread...

[novella]

I know you changed your mind, Novella, but I'm still quoting what you said here as this is a common conception stemming from the cliche that men love sex and women don't. Why is it that men are reveared as porn stars and women are thought to be dirty and slutty?

Absolutely what I say applies to male pros equally. I believe that people like to choose who they have sex with and only turn to prostitution out of desperation.

 

[Kookamoor]

Absolutely what I say applies to male pros equally. I believe that people like to choose who they have sex with and only turn to prostitution out of desperation.

But if you could choose who you had sex with and still get paid for it...? In my opinion that's what a brothel should provide for it's employees. And this is where legislation could help - legalise prostitution and provide prositutes with the right to be able to refuse clientelle.

There are many agencies that specialise in business men who come to a particular town. So a prositute may build up a clientelle of regulars that she CHOOSES to have sex with.

 

[Freya]

I know there's a seedy side to the business, and perhaps legalising prostitution could be a way to validate this sort of career rather than relegating it to street corners, back alleys and seedy motels.

A seedy side? I'd argue that the vast majority of ladies-of-the-night are women who are forced into it due to social and economic factors. It's rarely a choice, 'Oh, what shall I do with my life. I know! I'll sell my body!' It's women who are literally forced onto the streets.

The problem is so much bigger than legalising selling sex - it's solving matters of poverty within developed nations and pulling people in off the streets. We need to address the cause, rather than fanny around with the legalities of the effect.

 

[Motokid]

Actually, from the numerous interviews I've heard on Howard Stern, the documentary style HBO specials I've seen on "The Bunny Ranch" in Reno, the plethora of adult films and magazines, and the incredibly expanding internet sex industry featuring interactive sites, I'd say there's a huge portion of women in the money-for-sex industry that are taking part of their own free will, just because of the amount of money that can be made in a very short period of time. Then there's escort services and strip clubs that feature many forms of sexual pleasures both visually and through direct contact. I think there is a much larger number of females who are choosing a career in money-for-sex than you think novella.

I still want somebody to explain why getting paid to have sex in a movie is not prostitution, but getting paid to have sex in a hotel room is?????

And of coarse I don't want my girls to be in that line of business. That's completely not the point of this at all. I would also prefer they don't get into making porno movies and that is completely legal at the moment. Same with stripping, lap dancing, phone sex, and internet stuff that's growing in abundance every second. I can't beleive how many really good looking girls are allowing themselves to be photographed and video'd for the purpose of publising it on the www.

I enjoy discussing topics that are not typically discussed. I was bored with some of the general topic threads and decided to spice things up a little with something a bit more risque.

 

[Freya]

Actually, from the numerous interviews I've heard on Howard Stern, the documentary style HBO specials I've seen on "The Bunny Ranch" in Reno, the plethora of adult films and magazines, and the incredibly expanding internet sex industry featuring interactive sites, I'd say there's a huge portion of women in the money-for-sex industry that are taking part of their own free will, just because of the amount of money that can be made in a very short period of time.

And I would argue that you are sadly mistaken! The films/documentaries etc are all being presented to you by the media in a certain way, and as such you can't generalise to the whole industry. Perhaps this is a difference between nations, but a quick trip down to any town's red light district round here will prove to me that the bulk of women are not in this on some get-rich-quick scheme. They're doing it because they have no other choice. No other means of being able to feed and clothe themselves.

 

[jenn]

i would agree that the majority of the women and men out there are not doing this because they watched pretty woman and went hey, that's the life for me. i do think that anything that makes the lives of these people safer and healthier is a good thing. you could argue that offering drug users clean hypodermic needles or condoms to kids is not directly addressing the real problem, but while we debate the solutions, we still need to make the world safer for these people.

 

[RitalinKid]

They're doing it because they have no other choice. No other means of being able to feed and clothe themselves.

So, why not make sure they're receiving adequate medical and anti-pimp assistance while they're forced to walk this road? I don't like the idea of prostitution, but who are we to throw people in jail for it? Does jail really even help the situation?

Even though the strong religious right is probably the main reason a lot of things that could be legalized aren't given that status, I have to agree that a major supporting reason is the cost to the economy. If you were to legalize prostitution and certain drugs (including steroids), we'd end up with a lot of empty jail cells, which means a lot of prison guards lose their jobs. Meanwhile, a lot of court staff twiddle their thumbs all day, and cops are stuck on almost permanent traffic duty, more jobs lost in both cases. Don't forget that you also need a bad guy to blame things on, and prostitutes and dealers make easy targets. I know that sounds really crazy in a conspiracy theory way, but if you had known some of the people that I've seen go to jail, you'd know they weren't "the bad guys." I've seen some genuinely nice people, some of the nicest people I've ever met, get fines and jail time. Why are we sending these people to jail? In my state, the average drug dealer spends more time in jail than murderers. What does that say? Someone who peddles merchandise to customers is more dangerous than someone who kills another person in cold blood?

If we need some "bad guys", how about looking at the politicians that don't have term limits? Their stock portfolios on average do twice as well as the average American's, even better than those of CEOs. Insider trading, what? Nah! But let's throw Martha Homemaker in jail for fibbing, along with those peddlers of sex and chemicals, while we continue to get get rich, yammer on about nothing and play Patty Cake on Capitol Hill.

I'm really not that pessimistic. Certain topics do this to me.

 

[«FickleMinded»]

There is legal prositution in Nevada, USA. It won't ever become legal anywhere else for a long long time, due to the power of the religious right here in America.

-i think that most of the forbidden things is legal in Nevada, just like abortion.

so what's next to this so-called "get legalized list"hmmm....

illegal drugs
illegal immigrants
phedophile

and whatever illegal things come to mind.

sounds like "if we can't beat them,join them"

 

[hay82]

I have to agree that a major supporting reason is the cost to the economy. If you were to legalize prostitution and certain drugs (including steroids),

But you would suddenly be able to put taxes on it.

 

[hay82]

sounds like "if we can't beat them,join them"

Don't worry, I think a lot of them are already being beaten.

 

[RitalinKid]

But you would suddenly be able to put taxes on it.

What's more important, employment rate or money in the treasury? If you want your constituents to vote for you, you better keep 'em at work. Hey, maybe they can work at the new brothels, mushroom farms, marijuana fields and cocaine factories! Maybe the taxes would make up for the all the money wasted on the overstaffed government agencie, so the gov't would break even. Big maybe. If you did legalize a lot of illegal activities, something new and terrible would probably pop up for some of those people who would've committed those acts to do, like becoming hitmen or running guns for militants.

 

[RitalinKid]

so what's next to this so-called "get legalized list"hmmm....

illegal drugs
illegal immigrants

In earlier threads, we've already covered that first one to some degree, and the second one will probably be sometime soon if it hasn't taken place already.

phedophile

Even though NAMBLA tells us otherwise, I don't think we have to question the illegality of this one.

sounds like "if we can't beat them,join them"

From where I'm standing, it's, "We can't beat them because we are them."

 

[Ronny]

I've often wondered why prostitution is illegal since it obviously has some staying power. I do think there would be more benifits to everyone if it was legal and regulated. I have also often wondered where is that line that seperates "beneficial dating" from prostitution.

I went to college with a girl who danced at a strip club and she loved it. She had plenty of time for school, money and many nice gifts of clothing, jewelry. She often made in one night close to what I made in a week as waitress and she even said the cocktail servers at the club made much more than me. I had to tell her it would not matter much what I made there cause my Dad would kill me if he found me in that type of place but she loved the whole lifestyle of it and often dated men she met at the club. She was great fun, very smart and very pretty. She ended up doing very well for herself when she finished school and went into the interior design business. While dancing isn't exactly the same as prostitution it is a bit in the same ball park and I think after knowing her I felt a bit differently. She enjoyed herself, made a life for herself, was well like and never came across as desperate or sleezy to me or other classmates.

 

[Kookamoor]

A seedy side? I'd argue that the vast majority of ladies-of-the-night are women who are forced into it due to social and economic factors. It's rarely a choice, 'Oh, what shall I do with my life. I know! I'll sell my body!' It's women who are literally forced onto the streets.

The problem is so much bigger than legalising selling sex - it's solving matters of poverty within developed nations and pulling people in off the streets. We need to address the cause, rather than fanny around with the legalities of the effect.

There is a very big difference between prostitutes on the street and women who work in a brothel. One is a dangerous environment, and the other has the potential to be a very safe working environment. I am not saying that women should be able to solicit on the streets - such things should remain illegal. I am simply saying that establishments that meet certain regulations (in terms of appropriate health care for the women, zoning regs for the location of such places, the right for women to refuse clients, etc) should be allowed to provide such services to clients legally.

It's not going to make street walkers go away - there will always be women who turn to this as a last resort for whatever reason (we can get into some perceived solutions to this if you want) just as there will be illegal brothels. But by bringing some legitimacy to the industry you can ensure that at least some of the women are safe in these legal, regulated establishments.

Can we have some input from some of our European members who live in countries that do have legalised prostitution? Martin - I know you wanted to stay out of this, but I'm interested in your perspective.

 

[Motokid]

Freya I don't think I'm sadly mistaken at all. Certainly there are plenty of "street walkers" that are in the business for survival reasons. Whether or not there's a choice there is debateable. There are plenty of poor people that scratch and claw there way through life through legal means. And there's always government assitance and foodstamps. Ultimately every person is responcible for the choices they make and earning a living through selling your body is a choice each of those people makes. I don't buy into the idea that every single street-walker is completely incapable of getting out of the business because they are forced to hook. They might be in it for drug, alcohol, or gambling addictions. That's still a choice those girls make. There are many ways and avenues for girls to get out of the lifestyle if they choose it.

For the very few that are really and truely being "forced" into it that is surely against the law. Just as it's against the law to force people to work in sweat shops, or for less than minimum wage.

While I understand that documentary type shows can be biased, that does not change the fact that there are many, many women who choose to sell there body's of there own free will. And that's because of the money that can be made.

Make it legal and that astronomical, or easy money allure might go away and thus keep many women from entering that line of work altogether.

 

[hay82]

What's more important, employment rate or money in the treasury? If you want your constituents to vote for you, you better keep 'em at work. Hey, maybe they can work at the new brothels, mushroom farms, marijuana fields and cocaine factories! Maybe the taxes would make up for the all the money wasted on the overstaffed government agencie, so the gov't would break even.

I thought you knew, money is always the most important thing. Haven't you learned anything? I was wondering, would you get a special discount if you worked in a cocaine factory?

Big maybe. If you did legalize a lot of illegal activities, something new and terrible would probably pop up for some of those people who would've committed those acts to do, like becoming hitmen or running guns for militants.

Well, you just make that legal too.. end of problem.

 

[Motokid]

Where does the idea that cities, states, or governments in general, are making money off of keeping prostitution illegal come from?

How does arresting somebody, putting them through the court systems and into jail make money for anybody? I've heard numerous claims that keeping somebody in jail for a year cost well over what it would cost to send that person to a good college for a year. (There's an idea. Take that poor, under-educated street-walker and put her in a dorm at a state funded university and educate her instead of putting her in jail and forever dooming her to a life of crime)

Tax payers are paying for police, court appointed lawyers, court employees and judges, jails, jail staff and so on.

If this supposed income is coming from bail money, then surely the income from taxes would more than make up for lost bail money.

 

[RitalinKid]

I was wondering, would you get a special discount if you worked in a cocaine factory?

There are 12 step programs. We can help you help yourself. Cocaine is so strongly addictive that I'm not sure it should ever be legalized. Then again, sex is pretty addictive, and, as bobbyburns pointed out in another thread, religion is too.

The dancers that I've known did it because the money was so good. Some of them had college degrees, but they made more money dancing. US$100,000 per year from dancing or US$30,000 from office work? On top of the money, a big perk was that their job was at a club where their friends could come hang out with them regularly during business hours, and their hours are very flexible.

 

[hay82]

There are 12 step programs. We can help you help yourself. Cocaine is so strongly addictive that I'm not sure it should ever be legalized.

I can stop whenever I want.

There was a study in Denmark about prostitution where they found out that about 60 % of the men who went to prostitutes were in realtionships.

 

[RitalinKid]

Where does the idea that cities, states, or governments in general, are making money off of keeping prostitution illegal come from?

I don't think anybody has said that the state makes money off prostitution. Sorry if I missed it, but the issue I was referring to is that the state may no longer need as many people in the criminal processing and holding system if certain activities were legalized because fewer people would be committing crimes. I'm sure there's an argument with some validity for new crimes coming in to replace the old ones.

Edit: BTW, Motokid, have you started a thread on illegal immigration? Are there plans for it? Also, are there any plans to compile your threads on social topics into a book? Is it also true your threads can stop global warming?