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Boston Marathon attack

It is also quite clear what your feelings are and that you don't agree with Meadow, however, that doesn't mean that you get to express them more often than she does.

Lively debate is encouraged on this forum, and all members may not agree with each other at all times (it would be rather boring if that were the case). Play nice. :)
 
No matter how compelling the evidence he is still innocent until proven guilty or has that law also fallen by the wayside?

That law fell by the wayside years ago. Just ask every American who has had property and/or money under civil asset forfeiture laws; taken without even being charged for a crime.

Erosion of constitutional rights has become a way of life. Political correctness is the new law of the land.
 
It is also quite clear what your feelings are and that you don't agree with Meadow, however, that doesn't mean that you get to express them more often than she does.

Lively debate is encouraged on this forum, and all members may not agree with each other at all times (it would be rather boring if that were the case). Play nice. :)

Polly P: Are you commenting as a moderator or as someone who agrees with Meadow? I'm not sure that I have expressed my opinion more than Meadow, in fact, I feel I have been rather more subdued. I never said that I didn't agree with civil rights and I certainly am not 'hellbent on killing" the accused. I wasn't aware that this forum was a debate about civil rights, rather more concern for the people who were killed and injured in the attack. Not much has been said about them. However, I will withdraw from further comment.
 
Polly P: Are you commenting as a moderator or as someone who agrees with Meadow? I'm not sure that I have expressed my opinion more than Meadow, in fact, I feel I have been rather more subdued. I never said that I didn't agree with civil rights and I certainly am not 'hellbent on killing" the accused. I wasn't aware that this forum was a debate about civil rights, rather more concern for the people who were killed and injured in the attack. Not much has been said about them. However, I will withdraw from further comment.

My personal opinion has nought to do with what I just said.
 
Hello Bluenote: You sound like a knowledgeable kind of man, do you think the response to the Boston Bombing was handled properly and what would you suggest would be measures to prevent something like this happening again? Or is it just about impossible to know everything about all the 'radicals' who are wandering around freely in the US even with all the various 'listening' stations (which I presume is what the FBI does) for 'flagged' words etc.?

I see also that you are not in favour of any of the parties, what would be your choice of government as anarchism really wouldn't be any improvement if you think all the parties are equally bad.


Lets start with the latter. Perhaps you'd like to show us wherein I made a blanket indictment of the " PARTIES" , I believe what I stated is the fact that I detest our current crop of POLITICIANS , across the board without regard to party.

Did I not?

And nope I don't think the Boston Bombing was handled properly , a response that utilised 9000 personell running around like chickens with their heads cut off , trampling on the basic rights of the citizens who would support them is not expeditious.

And frankly the REALITY is that there is no way of insuring that this can't/won't happen again , has Great Britain managed to prevent the IRA from doing as it damn pleases when it decides to? Did the Russians with their abusive extremes manage to prevent similar in Chechnya , has military presence in either the Iraq of Afghan theaters prevented even worse?

And YES it is most certainly impossible to know for certain what every radical is doing at all times , would you wish to live in a society wherein every citizen was tracked from womb to tomb at all times?

And you misunderstand the primary role of the FBI , you are aware of certain other agencies in this country are you not?

Look , here's what it comes down to...........Law enforcement is NOT there to protect you , regardless of the rhetoric put forth by any given side , they are merely present to pick up the pieces , as witnessed in this specific incident.

You carry a degree of responsibility for **self protection** , yes it's relatively speaking impossible to protect yourself against bombs and the like , but not against other things.

As an example , and though it may sound vicious , take the crime of rape , if more rapists got shot in the groin during the commission of their crime or got their dangly bits sliced off and were left to bleed out slowly and painfully there'd be a lot less of that crime.

And while most assuredly I don't feel that *everyone* should go armed you will note the common thread within the mass shootings in the news.........they across the board happened in *** no firearms zones***.

Examine if you will the Aurora incident , Holmes didn't pick the venue closest to his home , he didn't choose the venue with the most targets , instead he chose a venue with a strict *no firearms policy* , even for legally licensed carriers.

The Newtown shootings happened in a state with some of the most restrictive firearms laws in this country.

And as an aside , magazine capacity limits would have been of no benefit in either incident , Holmes initially opened up with with an 870 in Aurora , with his AK platform he used the notoriously unreliable 100 drum , which as they always do failed to function early on , he limpwristed his Glock and stovepiped it and had to swap out mags.......that comes *directly* from responding officers that I have queried *directly*.

Newtown , the magazines found at the scene still containing from 9 to 21 rounds left in the mags indicate frequent mag changes..

Across the board in this nation the worst crime and the most firearms utilisation within the context of those crimes is to be found in the locales with the most restrictive firearms statutes.

The Sullivan Act went into effect in 1911 , how is that working for NYC nowadays?
 
That law fell by the wayside years ago. Just ask every American who has had property and/or money under civil asset forfeiture laws; taken without even being charged for a crime.

Erosion of constitutional rights has become a way of life. Political correctness is the new law of the land.


This is exactly correct.
 
As an example , and though it may sound vicious , take the crime of rape , if more rapists got shot in the groin during the commission of their crime or got their dangly bits sliced off and were left to bleed out slowly and painfully there'd be a lot less of that crime.

Sadly as countless studies on the effect of corporal punishment from caning through to the death penalty have shown this is not a deterrent. This comment also shows a fundamental lack of understanding of rape - it is not a sexual crime, but one of rage.

If you are suggesting that more guns in a society that has far to free an access to guns already I fail to see how that is a solution.

You carry a degree of responsibility for **self protection** , yes it's relatively speaking impossible to protect yourself against bombs and the like , but not against other things.

Simple observation helps a great deal as well. I doubt any one would have left backpacks lying around at the height of the IRA troubles in the UK. They even got rid of all public dustbins because of the threat of bombs in them. There are simple everyday precautions that can be taken against bombs. America isn't the isolated sheltered shore it has been, time for reality to bite I think, in terms of how most of the rest of world coexists with violence that up to now most Americans have been very divorced from.
And YES it is most certainly impossible to know for certain what every radical is doing at all times , would you wish to live in a society wherein every citizen was tracked from womb to tomb at all times?
Judging by the general lack of concern for the trampling of aforementioned rights that is indeed precisely what people will get whether they want it or not. Or what is more likely to happen is that slowly people will willing forfeit their rights for 'safety' and only wake up once its too late and Big Brother is watching ...oh wait he is already or didn't you know that all phone calls, emails and internet access is already monitored for 'key' words and phrases?
 
Everyone is entitled to their opinion. It's only when the same ol', same ol' thing keeps being said it gets boring. I've not seen that with many posters.

And, I agree with some above, the victims of the bombing, and the killing of the officer should be of paramount importance.

The rights of the alleged bomber left living were, and have been, protected in that he was Mirandized, finally. The exception that was used was valid, by law, and circumstances. I am positive that the authorities thought long and hard about the after effects. More lives could have been at stake. I cannot help but side with the victims, or would be victims. They have rights too.
 
If you are suggesting that more guns in a society that has far to free an access to guns already I fail to see how that is a solution.

So your passionate about protecting the rights of a criminal, but you do favor eroding rights granted to innocent people by the 2nd amendment?
 
Sadly as countless studies on the effect of corporal punishment from caning through to the death penalty have shown this is not a deterrent. This comment also shows a fundamental lack of understanding of rape - it is not a sexual crime, but one of rage.

If you are suggesting that more guns in a society that has far to free an access to guns already I fail to see how that is a solution.



Simple observation helps a great deal as well. I doubt any one would have left backpacks lying around at the height of the IRA troubles in the UK. They even got rid of all public dustbins because of the threat of bombs in them. There are simple everyday precautions that can be taken against bombs. America isn't the isolated sheltered shore it has been, time for reality to bite I think, in terms of how most of the rest of world coexists with violence that up to now most Americans have been very divorced from.

Judging by the general lack of concern for the trampling of aforementioned rights that is indeed precisely what people will get whether they want it or not. Or what is more likely to happen is that slowly people will willing forfeit their rights for 'safety' and only wake up once its too late and Big Brother is watching ...oh wait he is already or didn't you know that all phone calls, emails and internet access is already monitored for 'key' words and phrases?


I fully understand the dynamics of rape , the fact is though that if the consequences were more severe and women were allowed more leeway in protecting themselves there would be less incidence of that or other rage based crimes.

And nope I'm not suggesting more firearms in our society , what I'm stating is that bandaid solutions such as no firearms zones and magazine capacity limits are merely feelgood " solutions" that only penalise the already law abiding . In many locales we already have statutes that say ( rendered simplistically) " use a firearm in the commission of a crime go straight to jail and stay for the term" , these are most often not applied in a significant manner.

A wide variety of locales across the country , from Oakland to NYC , Jersey , Chicago etc. offer substantive proof that disarming the already law-abiding populace has little effect on the criminal element , getting 'em off the street does.

And while I am in partial agreement with you as regards the removal of dustbins etc. in Great Britain , they still found a way , just as they have in many other locales.

And yes Big Brother is already here , and on a rapidly accelerating pace and in an increasingly abusive manner. I'm quite familar with Carnivore and the rest of the programs now resident , along with others that will come online soon. I would presume that you've heard about the new NSA facility that will come on line in Utah soon?
 
sorry not arguing the 2nd amendment


Neither am I , beyond the basic fact that there needs to be a degree of balance , it's unfortunate that the inmates have gained control of the asylum on both sides of that issue. I have little respect for the NRA , nor do I have any degree of respect for the rabidly anti-firearms side. And while they squabble no common sense solutions are reached and implemented.
 
I fully understand the dynamics of rape , the fact is though that if the consequences were more severe and women were allowed more leeway in protecting themselves there would be less incidence of that or other rage based crimes.

And nope I'm not suggesting more firearms in our society , what I'm stating is that bandaid solutions such as no firearms zones and magazine capacity limits are merely feelgood " solutions" that only penalise the already law abiding . In many locales we already have statutes that say ( rendered simplistically) " use a firearm in the commission of a crime go straight to jail and stay for the term" , these are most often not applied in a significant manner.

A wide variety of locales across the country , from Oakland to NYC , Jersey , Chicago etc. offer substantive proof that disarming the already law-abiding populace has little effect on the criminal element , getting 'em off the street does.

And while I am in partial agreement with you as regards the removal of dustbins etc. in Great Britain , they still found a way , just as they have in many other locales.

And yes Big Brother is already here , and on a rapidly accelerating pace and in an increasingly abusive manner. I'm quite familar with Carnivore and the rest of the programs now resident , along with others that will come online soon. I would presume that you've heard about the new NSA facility that will come on line in Utah soon?

um no - Im more of an analyst of trends. I see the patterns in events and see the consequences if nothing happens to change the outcomes.

As far as protecting oneself from crime is concerned I have to say guns don't help, fences don't help and coming from a society with a very high level of violent crime I know that vigilence and awareness of risk factors go much further in keeping you safe than anything else.
 
As far as protecting oneself from crime is concerned I have to say guns don't help, fences don't help and coming from a society with a very high level of violent crime I know that vigilence and awareness of risk factors go much further in keeping you safe than anything else.

Guns don't help? Maybe not against bombs. But guns do help, assuming of course that the person that owns the gun knows how to use it is and as willing to use it as much as the person that they're protecting themselves against. If I had my way, the next gun law that we would pass would be a requirement for household to own one.
 
I'm reading more and more about the gun background check provision making a come back, at least behind closed doors in the senate. It appears that Manchin and Toomey are at it again. I don't own a gun, never have. In regards to the Sandy Hook shooting, a background check would not have caught the shooter. He took a legally purchased gun from his own mother and then killed her. No background check, finger print, mug shot, blood donation, or retina scan would have stopped that. Proponents of the background check bill have admitted as much, though that hasn't stopped them from pushing for a bill for which, when passed, addresses a problem that it fails to solve. Riddle me that.
 
guns don't help because a. violence creates more violence b. most law abiding citizens regardless of gun training have not had their inhibitions against killing another human being systematically removed through psychological conditioning c. most timrs guns are taken from their owner and used against them and/or in another crime d. most times crime occurs in such a way that even with a gun on your person it is no help because reaching for it would put you at greater risk.

It is better to mindful of your environment, to proactively cautious about where you are,to whom you open your door, not stopping in high risk areas etc
 
um no - Im more of an analyst of trends. I see the patterns in events and see the consequences if nothing happens to change the outcomes.

As far as protecting oneself from crime is concerned I have to say guns don't help, fences don't help and coming from a society with a very high level of violent crime I know that vigilence and awareness of risk factors go much further in keeping you safe than anything else.


We will have to agree to disagree , firearms in the *right* hands can/have/and do help , I have seen this firsthand , had to respond to the outcomes and been through it myself.

Fences *can* help , but they are not a panacea , they are just one layer in a given defensive system , a decent dog can be another layer , and it almost goes without saying that awareness and vigilance is yet another critical component. Most folks nowadays are not real observant as regards their surroundings.
 
guns don't help because a. violence creates more violence b. most law abiding citizens regardless of gun training have not had their inhibitions against killing another human being systematically removed through psychological conditioning c. most timrs guns are taken from their owner and used against them and/or in another crime d. most times crime occurs in such a way that even with a gun on your person it is no help because reaching for it would put you at greater risk.

It is better to mindful of your environment, to proactively cautious about where you are,to whom you open your door, not stopping in high risk areas etc

Nonsense. People that are going to commit an act of violence aren't going to wait for someone else to commit an act of violence.

Pennsylvania music store owner fatally shoots intruder

A gun helped these people.
 
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