Hello from Russia!

[Kenny Shovel]

Err... That's exactly what some people I knew were used to do...

The British like to laugh at their lack of language skills; the joke/cliché is that if we are not understood abroad we just repeat what we said slowly and in A LOUDER VOICE until we are. In reality most people will try using a phrase book, but being British it will sound like we’re putting the language through a mincing machine.
Obviously this doesn’t apply to places like Holland or Denmark where everyone seems to speak English better than we do; well, better than the Americans anyway…(I’m joking Americans, you have lovely speaking voices…trouser fillingly scary foreign policy, but lovely speaking voices..)

Ha... I do not remember if Adams had used it somewhere... It would have fitted smoothly in some far-away planet's language...

But not the Vogon’s, their poetry was terrible, but Russian poetry is beautiful. I told you before that I love Puskin and Blok…

And how "vzbzdnoot'" grabs you?

Well I’m used to having ‘z’ thrown into the middle of Russian words for no good reason, unfortunately it’s the position of the ‘d’ that gets me. I can ease through the first part of it, but then I hit the ‘D’ like a fly hitting a windscreen.
BTW ‘How does ?? garb you’ - nice use of English slang. I’ll have you speaking cockney rhyming slang before you can say “vzbzdnoot” three times quickly without chipping a tooth.

It is one of the words we use for "to fart".

There are many slang words for this in English too. As you’ve travelled on the London underground I don’t need to explain to you why this is necessary.

I think yes. You know, I had a friend from the KGB school once.

Was it Oxford or Cambridge? That’s where you seem to get a lot of your spies from…

He was being prepared for working in China. He told me they have at least 4 different tones to pronounce a single word, so that word took 4 different meanings... I wonder if I have liked reading if I'd been a Chinese...

Mmm, perhaps you would, the Chinese invented paper you know so it must be ‘in the blood’…

I knew you would say something like that, that was too obvious...

Indeed, sometimes I can’t stop myself….tonight being an example, I can’t take anything seriously…

That's a long song, how we call it... Yes, we have insurance. But for such cases one has to pay 2% of the total value of the goods to insure them against all possible risks, including rightful confiscation by govt authorities

I see, that’s a hell of an overhead…

And there is another problem... Our insuring companies used to think up reasons why they would not pay back insurance money if something happens with a really expensive thing: their lawers could always find some explanation why the contract could not be considered as valid.

This isn’t just a Russian thing!

Really, I do not like insurance people too much.

Do you mind, I’ve worked for Insurance companies for most of my working life. Although I’m very much the rebel, trying to bring the system down from within, a bit like Che Guevara really; except whilst he lead a revolutionary army, I mainly concentrate on coming back from overly long Lunch breaks slightly drunk and stealing stationary, but the principle is the same…

My grandfather and grandmother, when they turned 70, decided to insure their lives, so it would be easier to manage burial expenses when one of them would die. OK, they invited an agent, he checked all the documents, asked for medical checks, and when everything had been in order, they signed a contract and paid money. They kept paying for more then 15 years when my grandmother instantly died when she nearly turned 85. We had money enough for burials then, so grandfather remembered about their insurance several month after that. But when he tried to get his money, he was told that the contract had been invalid from the beginning: it was illegal to insure life for people older than 60... So he was returned only his own money, that he had been paying to the insurance company over the years... And with all that inflation that was hardly enough for several bottles of good vodka then.

Well that is ‘mis-selling’ and was quite a serious problem here with pensions a few years back. To be honest, it sounds like Russian consumer rights have a long way to go…

That's magnificent

That’s very nice of you to give that compliment to me…

you are the second person to say that. The first was me:

…and yourself…

I do not know why, I have always liked maps. In my childhood I could have spent hours looking at them.

A yearning for travel perhaps?

 

[Sergo]

But not the Vogon’s, their poetry was terrible, but Russian poetry is beautiful. I told you before that I love Puskin and Blok…

Well, as to Blok... What do you think of his poem "12"? I would have tried to spoil his life for him if he had lived until my time, when they made me to remember it in school. OK, maybe not the Vogons, but some illiterate rapping youth of the 21st century could have done better in some verses... "kolokolchik na oglobel'kah, ah - ah, padi!" Fcuk, I remember parts of it even now, meaningless as they are...

Well I’m used to having ‘z’ thrown into the middle of Russian words for no good reason, unfortunately it’s the position of the ‘d’ that gets me. I can ease through the first part of it, but then I hit the ‘D’ like a fly hitting a windscreen.

Really, "vzbzdnut'" is not the word one uses frequently. I think even for me to say it several times in a row would have been difficult. More common forms of it are "bzdet'" - keep farting, or to be afraid, and "ne bzdi" - don't fart, or do not be afraid. In this second case the second meaning is by far more frequent than the original one.

BTW ‘How does ?? grab you’ - nice use of English slang. I’ll have you speaking cockney rhyming slang before you can say “vzbzdnoot” three times quickly without chipping a tooth.

Thanks. As my English is mostly product of my reading, that's natural. It's the choice of right books that matters... BTW, I've tried to get some advise on what to buy in London, but it seems I couldn't have the folks here be interested in my problem...

There are many slang words for this in English too. As you’ve travelled on the London underground I don’t need to explain to you why this is necessary.

Really, I used it only three or five times - mostly walking in London... Hope to gain on it this time. London underground is very interesting, so I hope to see more of it.

But my everyday use of our metro surely helps to uncipher your meaning, I think.

Was it Oxford or Cambridge? That’s where you seem to get a lot of your spies from…

Oh no. Really, in the Soviet times almost every student has been approached by KGB people upon graduation. I was asked to join them too. Really, I was interested enough to be put through all of their admission tests, and passed them well, except the memory tests. But they assured me they had means to repair that in no time. So the only reason they hadn't admitted me was that I lost my Young Kommunist League member card, so they told me that I had to apply for a new one, and after half a year after that they were to admit me to their training courses. But after I had enough time to think, I decided that I better not join them, their high pay, priviliges, travelling and all that...
So I never came to them again. So they came to me again after some time - that time an offer came from a KGB connected construction firm. But I have already made my mind then.

Do you mind, I’ve worked for Insurance companies for most of my working life. Although I’m very much the rebel, trying to bring the system down from within, a bit like Che Guevara really; except whilst he lead a revolutionary army, I mainly concentrate on coming back from overly long Lunch breaks slightly drunk and stealing stationary, but the principle is the same…

Wow, you would be responsible for my untimely death... It is not healthy to laugh like that... And, really, it is not good for my professional image - the boss nearly falling from his chair while pretending to be busy with calculations...

Well that is ‘mis-selling’ and was quite a serious problem here with pensions a few years back. To be honest, it sounds like Russian consumer rights have a long way to go…

Really, that has happened not in Russia, but in the USSR. I believe I've never told you my family has had a small summer house in Abkhasia, near the Black sea. So all that happened there, in the city of Gudauta.

That’s very nice of you to give that compliment to me…
…and yourself…

I like to prise myself. It helps to feel optimistic.

A yearning for travel perhaps?

Yes, maybe, though I have never been to lots of places... Too bad I like where I go so much I prefer to return to the same place next time, rather that to try something new...

 

[Kenny Shovel]

Well, as to Blok... What do you think of his poem "12"? I would have tried to spoil his life for him if he had lived until my time, when they made me to remember it in school.

Ah! The Twelve! Strange you say that as the only bit of Russian poetry I can recite is a little part of that poem…
“The Wind plays up: snow flutters down.
Twelve men are marching through the town.
Their rifle-butts on black slings sway.
Lights left, right, left, wink all the way.
Cap tilted, fag (cigarette) drooping, every one,
Looks like a jailbird on the run.

There is another Blok one I like that is part of a “Learn Russian” book I own. It goes:

Night, Lamp, Street, Chemist’s,
Senseless and dim world.
Live yet at least a quarter of a century -,
Everything will be thus. A way out there isn’t.

You’ll die – You’ll start again from the beginning,
And will repeat itself everything, as of old:
Night, the icy ripples of the canal,
Chemist’s, street, Lamp.

But there is no title for this in the book and I don’t even know if it is the complete work or just a part.

The reason I like this kind of stuff is it is direct and says what it means; which kind of reflects the way I am. I have little affection for more abstract “hedgehog explosion against unicorn rainbow” type poems, and yet I really like abstract art! Work that out!

OK, maybe not the Vogons, but some illiterate rapping youth of the 21st century could have done better in some verses... "kolokolchik na oglobel'kah, ah - ah, padi!" Fcuk, I remember parts of it even now, meaningless as they are...

I used to follow music really closely when I was younger; go to loads of concerts, listen to all the new stuff on the radio, and read all the music press. There was a time in the mid to late 1980’s when I listened to a fair bit of rap as there were a number of artists who had something positive to say. Now 15-20 years later rap has been swallowed up by the music business and spat out into the mainstream for an audience that doesn’t want to think for itself; just like punk was ten years before it. I guess there are still the interesting positive groups out there but they’re just harder to find and I don’t have the same burning interest I had back then…

Really, "vzbzdnut'" is not the word one uses frequently. I think even for me to say it several times in a row would have been difficult.

Oh, I see. Right then, the gloves are coming off. Try this one for size; it’s the longest town name in Britain:
Llanfairpwllgwyngyllgogerychwyrndrobwllllantysiliogogogoch
Actually this is a cheat, it’s a town in Wales, and is apparently Welsh for "St. Mary's Church in the hollow of white hazel near a rapid whirlpool and the Church of St. Tysilio near the red cave." Note how the Welsh have almost abandoned the need to use vowels altogether. And no I can’t say it!

More common forms of it are "bzdet'" - keep farting, or to be afraid, and "ne bzdi" - don't fart, or do not be afraid. In this second case the second meaning is by far more frequent than the original one.

Yes, we say “shitting yourself” to mean afraid. Such a beautiful language English…

BTW, I've tried to get some advise on what to buy in London, but it seems I couldn't have the folks here be interested in my problem...

Like what?

Really, I used it only three or five times - mostly walking in London... Hope to gain on it this time. London underground is very interesting, so I hope to see more of it.

But my everyday use of our metro surely helps to uncipher your meaning, I think.

Yes, the tube on a hot summers day is a smell to behold.

Oh no. Really, in the Soviet times almost every student has been approached by KGB people upon graduation. I was asked to join them too. Really, I was interested enough to be put through all of their admission tests, and passed them well, except the memory tests.

sounds to me like you could of joined but forgot.

But after I had enough time to think, I decided that I better not join them, their high pay, priviliges, travelling and all that...
So I never came to them again. So they came to me again after some time - that time an offer came from a KGB connected construction firm. But I have already made my mind then.

I wise choice. The father of the family I know in Odessa is convinced that the KGB were following him in his car because he is a communist, but then he also claims to have seen a UFO flying over his Dacha…

And, really, it is not good for my professional image - the boss nearly falling from his chair while pretending to be busy with calculations...

Golden rule of modern management: never let the staff see what you’re looking at on the Internet.

 

[Sergo]

Ah! The Twelve! Strange you say that as the only bit of Russian poetry I can recite is a little part of that poem…
“The Wind plays up: snow flutters down.
Twelve men are marching through the town.
Their rifle-butts on black slings sway.
Lights left, right, left, wink all the way.
Cap tilted, fag (cigarette) drooping, every one,
Looks like a jailbird on the run.

That's the same one in Russian:

Гуляет ветер, порхает снег.
Идут двенадцать человек.

Винтовок черные ремни,
Кругом - огни, огни, огни...

В зубах - цыгарка, примят картуз,
На спину б надо бубновый туз!
.....

Свобода, свобода,
Эх, эх, без креста!

Тра-та-та!

(Freedom, freedom,
Eh, Eh, without crucifix!
Tra-tha-tha!)

There is another Blok one I like that is part of a “Learn Russian” book I own. It goes:

Night, Lamp, Street, Chemist’s,
Senseless and dim world.
Live yet at least a quarter of a century -,
Everything will be thus. A way out there isn’t.

You’ll die – You’ll start again from the beginning,
And will repeat itself everything, as of old:
Night, the icy ripples of the canal,
Chemist’s, street, Lamp.

But there is no title for this in the book and I don’t even know if it is the complete work or just a part.

You know, I've read "12" half an hour ago - it has some strong magnetism... Strange I have not seen it in school...

Below is Blok's "The Skiffs" - too bad I couldn't find it in English... One of my friends read it aloud in school - that was quite an impression for all of us then...

Панмонголизм! Хоть имя дико,
Но мне ласкает слух оно.
Владимир Соловьев

Мильоны - вас. Нас - тьмы, и тьмы, и тьмы.
Попробуйте, сразитесь с нами!
Да, скифы - мы! Да, азиаты - мы,
С раскосыми и жадными очами!

Для вас - века, для нас - единый час.
Мы, как послушные холопы,
Держали щит меж двух враждебных рас
Монголов и Европы!

Века, века ваш старый горн ковал
И заглушал грома' лавины,
И дикой сказкой был для вас провал
И Лиссабона, и Мессины!

Вы сотни лет глядели на Восток,
Копя и плавя наши перлы,
И вы, глумясь, считали только срок,
Когда наставить пушек жерла!

Вот - срок настал. Крылами бьет беда,
И каждый день обиды множит,
И день придет - не будет и следа
От ваших Пестумов, быть может!

О старый мир! Пока ты не погиб,
Пока томишься мукой сладкой,
Остановись, премудрый, как Эдип,
Пред Сфинксом с древнею загадкой!

Россия - Сфинкс! Ликуя и скорбя,
И обливаясь черной кровью,
Она глядит, глядит, глядит в тебя
И с ненавистью, и с любовью!..

Да, так любить, как любит наша кровь,
Никто из вас давно не любит!
Забыли вы, что в мире есть любовь,
Которая и жжет, и губит!

Мы любим всч - и жар холодных числ,
И дар божественных видений,
Нам внятно всч - и острый галльский смысл,
И сумрачный германский гений...

Мы помним всч - парижских улиц ад,
И венецьянские прохлады,
Лимонных рощ далекий аромат,
И Кельна дымные громады...

Мы любим плоть - и вкус ее, и цвет,
И душный, смертный плоти запах...
Виновны ль мы, коль хрустнет ваш скелет
В тяжелых, нежных наших лапах?

Привыкли мы, хватая под уздцы
Играющих коней ретивых,
Ломать коням тяжелые крестцы
И усмирять рабынь строптивых...

Придите к нам! От ужасов войны
Придите в мирные объятья!
Пока не поздно - старый меч в ножны,
Товарищи! Мы станем - братья!

А если нет - нам нечего терять,
И нам доступно вероломство!
Века, века - вас будет проклинать
Больное позднее потомство!

Мы широко по дебрям и лесам
Перед Европою пригожей
Расступимся! Мы обернемся к вам
Своею азиатской рожей!

Идите все, идите на Урал!
Мы очищаем место бою
Стальных машин, где дышит интеграл,
С монгольской дикою ордою!

Но сами мы - отныне вам не щит,
Отныне в бой не вступим сами,
Мы поглядим, как смертный бой кипит,
Своими узкими глазами.

Не сдвинемся, когда свирепый гунн
В карманах трупов будет шарить,
Жечь города, и в церковь гнать табун,
И мясо белых братьев жарить!..

В последний раз - опомнись, старый мир!
На братский пир труда и мира,
В последний раз на светлый братский пир
Сзывает варварская лира!

30 января 1918

The reason I like this kind of stuff is it is direct and says what it means; which kind of reflects the way I am. I have little affection for more abstract “hedgehog explosion against unicorn rainbow” type poems, and yet I really like abstract art! Work that out!

Now that you said it, I have better pay more attention to Blok...

I used to follow music really closely when I was younger; go to loads of concerts, listen to all the new stuff on the radio, and read all the music press. There was a time in the mid to late 1980’s when I listened to a fair bit of rap as there were a number of artists who had something positive to say. Now 15-20 years later rap has been swallowed up by the music business and spat out into the mainstream for an audience that doesn’t want to think for itself; just like punk was ten years before it. I guess there are still the interesting positive groups out there but they’re just harder to find and I don’t have the same burning interest I had back then…

Really, I never understood rap much - I cannot remember our good rappers, and I never tried to understand the Western rap. So I think this layer of culture was lost on me.
We have some singers who never tried rap, but just the same about 95% of the impact of their songs have been the meaning, not the music. I imagine that could be close...

Oh, I see. Right then, the gloves are coming off. Try this one for size; it’s the longest town name in Britain:
Llanfairpwllgwyngyllgogerychwyrndrobwllllantysiliogogogoch
Actually this is a cheat, it’s a town in Wales, and is apparently Welsh for "St. Mary's Church in the hollow of white hazel near a rapid whirlpool and the Church of St. Tysilio near the red cave." Note how the Welsh have almost abandoned the need to use vowels altogether. And no I can’t say it!

Wow... Is this a REAL name? How do they write it on maps? I imagine there are no Russian names nearly like this one.

Yes, we say “shitting yourself” to mean afraid. Such a beautiful language English…

To find similarities between different languages is so interesting... Too bad that cannot pay enough...

Like what?

I would like to buy some books (up to ten or so) which are currently popular in the UK, as they would appear here maybe in half a year or even never...
They granted us our visas, so I will exchange money this week. Our rate $ to pound is 1,81 to 1 now...

Yes, the tube on a hot summers day is a smell to behold.

Our is bad all over the year: people in coats tend to smell fouler than in summer clothing. And our homeless somehow are much smellier than yours...

sounds to me like you could of joined but forgot.

Yep... I should check for the uniform with blue straps in my closet to be sure...

A wise choice. The father of the family I know in Odessa is convinced that the KGB were following him in his car because he is a communist, but then he also claims to have seen a UFO flying over his Dacha…

I forgot if I told you: when they talked to me on my first interview there, they made it clear they were aware of all my activities, including my friend of several years ago from Ghana... They knew everything about that, and as that has been YEARS before they came to me, that would have meant that they had tails on all the harmless foreign students even, and had everything filed and stored...

Golden rule of modern management: never let the staff see what you’re looking at on the Internet.
[/QUOTE]

Yep. Too bad I cannot help laughing sometimes...

 

[Kenny Shovel]

That's the same one in Russian:

Гуляет ветер, порхает снег.
Идут двенадцать человек.
….etc….

Thanks, unfortunately my collection of Blok only has the English translation; normally when I read translated poetry I like to have the original too so I can use the online babelfish site to try and give me an idea of the work the human translator has put in.

There is another Blok one I like that is part of a “Learn Russian” book I own. It goes:

Night, Lamp, Street, Chemist’s,
Senseless and dim world.
Live yet at least a quarter of a century -,
Everything will be thus. A way out there isn’t.

You’ll die – You’ll start again from the beginning,
And will repeat itself everything, as of old:
Night, the icy ripples of the canal,
Chemist’s, street, Lamp.

But there is no title for this in the book and I don’t even know if it is the complete work or just a part.

Just re-checked my collection of Blok and this is part of ‘Dances of Death’.

You know, I've read "12" half an hour ago - it has some strong magnetism... Strange I have not seen it in school...

When I look back at the books I studied for English Literature at school they are still some of my favourites. Henry IV Part one is still my favourite Shakespeare play (it’s got lots of Falstaff in it!), “Brave New World” & “Cry the beloved country” are still novels I have re-read and loved, and Wilfred Owen is still one of the most powerful poets I have ever read.

Below is Blok's "The Skiffs" - too bad I couldn't find it in English...

An online translation is here:
http://max.mmlc.northwestern.edu/~mdenner/Demo/texts/scythians_blok.html
this is slightly different to the translation I have at home.

One of my friends read it aloud in school - that was quite an impression for all of us then...

Well it’s very patriotic to say the least...

Really, I never understood rap much - I cannot remember our good rappers, and I never tried to understand the Western rap. So I think this layer of culture was lost on me.

I saw a Russian TV music show last time I was in the Baltic and they had some Russian rap groups on that. It seemed very odd to me!

We have some singers who never tried rap, but just the same about 95% of the impact of their songs have been the meaning, not the music. I imagine that could be close...

The impression I got about Russian musical tastes (this is back in Communist times) was that “Wordy” groups like Pink Floyd and Genesis were popular.

Wow... Is this a REAL name? How do they write it on maps? I imagine there are no Russian names nearly like this one.

Yes it is a real name of a real place. But it is slightly artificial, as apparently the name was originally about a third of the length until the local council decided to lengthen it “to put them on the map”!

I would like to buy some books (up to ten or so) which are currently popular in the UK, as they would appear here maybe in half a year or even never...

I’m not very knowledgeable about the current literary scene to be honest.
However I can say the Charing Cross Road is a good place to get books as they have many shops. Tottenham Court Road is the nearest tube station, and only about 100 meters or so from the shops. Foyles is definitely somewhere you should try:
http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Foyles
Unfortunately, much of the refurbishment of the store has now been completed and with it some of the unique atmosphere. There can’t of been many bookstores where you could sit in an antique leather armchair and flick through a book under a crystal chandelier, but in Foyles you used to be able too!

They granted us our visas, so I will exchange money this week. Our rate $ to pound is 1,81 to 1 now...

Congratulations, I assume you’ll be in London when your daughter is over which will be nice for you.

our homeless somehow are much smellier than yours...

You Russians are so boastful.

I forgot if I told you: when they talked to me on my first interview there, they made it clear they were aware of all my activities, including my friend of several years ago from Ghana...

Strange I used to work with a guy from Ghana, the stories he used to tell me!

They knew everything about that, and as that has been YEARS before they came to me, that would have meant that they had tails on all the harmless foreign students even, and had everything filed and stored...

Yes, it’s not a healthy sign for a society is it...

Yep. Too bad I cannot help laughing sometimes...

Tell them you’re working out their end of year bonus...

 

[Sergo]

Thanks, unfortunately my collection of Blok only has the English translation; normally when I read translated poetry I like to have the original too so I can use the online babelfish site to try and give me an idea of the work the human translator has put in.

You know, as we have lots and lots and lots of our literature free to access on the net - it is easy to find about any Russian work you wish. For example - go Google and print any name of Russian author (in Russian) and "скачать" (download). Even money you will be offered several free online libraries with the mentioned author's works.
Of course it may be against some authors rights... But OK, I will always buy real books, and if there were no these online resources - I would have read less, and not buying more books...

Just re-checked my collection of Blok and this is part of ‘Dances of Death’.

This part you mentioned we hear everyday - our major mobile telephone services provider BeeLine uses it in one of their advertising projects...

When I look back at the books I studied for English Literature at school they are still some of my favourites. Henry IV Part one is still my favourite Shakespeare play (it’s got lots of Falstaff in it!), “Brave New World” & “Cry the beloved country” are still novels I have re-read and loved, and Wilfred Owen is still one of the most powerful poets I have ever read.

I cannot say I have the same experience: I have never reread most of the things that I had to read in school. Of course I cannot say that I hadn't liked them then (most of them I read earlier than as per school schedule, so really I cannot say they "made" me to read these books either). Maybe I am losing a lot that way, as my grandmother's sister used to tell me that she has reread The War & Peace three or four times, and each time it got a different effect on her... And she always had with her books by Lermontov and Nekrasov - to read something now and then...

An online translation is here:
http://max.mmlc.northwestern.edu/~mdenner/Demo/texts/scythians_blok.html
this is slightly different to the translation I have at home.

That's the problem with poetry, humour etc., as to understand and like it one have to know more than just language of the author... And not all the translators could convey the soul of works adequately...

Well it’s very patriotic to say the least...

Yep, but we were moved not because of the patriotism... Really, we, Russians, are not a very patriotic people. For us to became patriotic we need some eager encouraging... To say the least...

I saw a Russian TV music show last time I was in the Baltic and they had some Russian rap groups on that. It seemed very odd to me!

They are. I remember one young man - a son of one of our famous musicians - who claims to be a rapper. I think he just tries to present himself in the field where there is not much competition so far in Russia...

The impression I got about Russian musical tastes (this is back in Communist times) was that “Wordy” groups like Pink Floyd and Genesis were popular.

Yep. Our "Voskresenie", "Mashina Vremeny" etc. were loved (and still are by some) for their words. As to Pink Floyd etc. - I remember translations of the songs, that circulated among us... But alas, an average Russian knows not more than two languages, second of these being our mat.

Yes it is a real name of a real place. But it is slightly artificial, as apparently the name was originally about a third of the length until the local council decided to lengthen it “to put them on the map”!

I expect there are some tourists coming there just to say afterwards they wisited that place with the suicidingly long name, and managed to survive and not to bite the tongue...

I’m not very knowledgeable about the current literary scene to be honest.
However I can say the Charing Cross Road is a good place to get books as they have many shops. Tottenham Court Road is the nearest tube station, and only about 100 meters or so from the shops. Foyles is definitely somewhere you should try:
http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Foyles

Thanks. I remember one big shop not too far from the Picadilli Circus - there were 6 or 7 floors to it... My wife nearly killed me for spending nearly an hour there, but all that I have accomplished then were to find several books by Clancy and King. So what I wanted really was to learn what is considered to be a "must read" now. Though that is not too important, as I really never read the most "fashionable" things here - not a Murakami, not a Pelevin...

Unfortunately, much of the refurbishment of the store has now been completed and with it some of the unique atmosphere. There can’t of been many bookstores where you could sit in an antique leather armchair and flick through a book under a crystal chandelier, but in Foyles you used to be able too!

Yep... I remember our old shops, before the era of glass & plastics... There were wood and marble in good shops then (too bad - I cannot remember a single book shop from that time), and aroma of coffee in such shops had been almost as strong as when you had a mug of coffee under your nose...

Congratulations, I assume you’ll be in London when your daughter is over which will be nice for you.

Yep, she is flying to London this very minute.

You Russians are so boastful.

You got me there...

Strange I used to work with a guy from Ghana, the stories he used to tell me!

My friend was from a family with some diplomatic people, his family name was Tette. I tried to find him through the net some time ago but failed. I believe he spent some time learning in the UK. He told me some stories too - for example about their wealthy people wearing shoes with golden soles, so everybody could know that they did not care about gold constantly wearing away... Our wealthy people hadn't gone that far yet.

Yes, it’s not a healthy sign for a society is it...

Surely. And that hadn't been the only such sign...

Tell them you’re working out their end of year bonus...

Good joke again... But it would be hard for me to fool them this way - they know I would cut on their bonuses only in dire straits...

 

[Kenny Shovel]

You know, as we have lots and lots and lots of our literature free to access on the net - it is easy to find about any Russian work you wish…Of course it may be against some authors’ rights... But OK, I will always buy real books, and if there were not these online resources - I would have read less, and not buying more books...

To be honest I would only do this for poetry, books are too long for me to view on a screen, even if I had a palm top. I will always prefer to have a book in my hand that, if I like it, can be placed on my shelves afterwards.

This part you mentioned we hear everyday - our major mobile telephone services provider BeeLine uses it in one of their advertising projects...

??? That’s really not a piece of prose I can imagine being used to sell something!

I cannot say I have the same experience: I have never reread most of the things that I had to read in school. Of course I cannot say that I hadn't liked them then (most of them I read earlier than as per school schedule, so really I cannot say they "made" me to read these books either).

A lot of British people say that they are put off Shakespeare by having to study him at school; as every line is examined and we try to work out the 15 subtle points he is making with each word. Clearly English Literature teachers have a high opinion of the man, that he was able to make all these subtle points in plays that where written for an audience that was half drunk during the performance! BTW, did you get to see the Globe when you were in London? It is a recreation of the theatre that Shakespeare managed, and it gives you an idea of what a ‘bear pit’ theatres of that time must have been.

…my grandmother's sister used to tell me that she has reread The War & Peace three or four times, and each time it got a different effect on her...

At one time I was going to learn Russian so I could War & Peace in it’s original language, somehow that plan seems to have gone wrong as I doubt I could read the title at the moment…

That's the problem with poetry, humour etc., as to understand and like it one have to know more than just language of the author... And not all the translators could convey the soul of works adequately...

Yes I think that is very true, but even translated poetry can have a beauty. I believe that Pasternak translated a lot of Shakespeare into Russian; it will not be the same but must surely still have some of the power.

Yep, but we were moved not because of the patriotism... Really, we, Russians, are not a very patriotic people. For us to became patriotic we need some eager encouraging... To say the least...

That is interesting. I think amongst some western intellectuals there is a feeling that there is a great nationalism under the surface of Russians. From my experience they can be very critical of their country (as can the British) but there is also a great love. I always had the impression that in your darkest hour, Stalin appealed to the masses love of Mother Russia rather than communism because he knew what the Russian people held closest to their hearts, is that not correct?

They are. I remember one young man - a son of one of our famous musicians - who claims to be a rapper. I think he just tries to present himself in the field where there is not much competition so far in Russia...

A bit like being Japans leading Country and Western singer…

Yep. Our "Voskresenie", "Mashina Vremeny" etc. were loved (and still are by some) for their words. As to Pink Floyd etc. - I remember translations of the songs, that circulated among us... But alas, an average Russian knows not more than two languages, second of these being our mat.

Modern Russian bands are unknown over here. In Britain we tend to only listen to English speaking/singing groups, in fact we only really listen to what the French call ‘Les Anglo-Saxon’ groups (Britain/USA/Canada/Australia).

I expect there are some tourists coming there just to say afterwards they visited that place with the suicidingly long name, and managed to survive and not to bite the tongue...

A lot of people like to have their picture taken on the railway station next to the station name sign.

Thanks. I remember one big shop not too far from the Piccadilly Circus - there were 6 or 7 floors to it... My wife nearly killed me for spending nearly an hour there, but all that I have accomplished then were to find several books by Clancy and King.

That may be the same place, from Piccadilly you go down Shaftsbury Avenue (where many of the London theatres are) and then into Charring Cross); Foyles has several floors to it. To be honest, if you want fiction then the large ‘Borders’ shop opposite carries a larger range.

So what I wanted really was to learn what is considered to be a "must read" now. Though that is not too important, as I really never read the most "fashionable" things here - not a Murakami, not a Pelevin...

The best thing to do is to ask at the store or perhaps post a message here…

Yep... I remember our old shops, before the era of glass & plastics... There were wood and marble in good shops then…

That’s kind of the transformation that Foyles is undergoing, it used to be all old wood shelves and everything ordered in a way that made no sense, and now they are changing to the glass and plastic look. Gone are the days when you used to find the chess section next to books on pet incontinence just because the owner felt they gave off the same aura….a simpler and yet at the same time more confusing era…

Yep, she is flying to London this very minute.

I’m sure she’ll have a great time…

My friend was from a family with some diplomatic people, his family name was Tette.

Mmm my friends sister worked for the UN, but he had a different name than yours.

. He told me some stories too - for example about their wealthy people wearing shoes with golden soles, so everybody could know that they did not care about gold constantly wearing away...

Tony’s problem was the opposite; because he lived in Britain people thought he was rich, when in fact he was still paying off large Student loans. I remember him going back home on a visit and everyone he met expected a gift, as he hadn’t brought any they would just say ‘Are you taking those shoes back’ or ‘Mmm, that is a nice shirt’. By the time he got home all he had were the clothes he was wearing.

Our wealthy people hadn't gone that far yet.

Yes, the Novi Russki are well known for their subtlety and understated displays of wealth.

Good joke again... But it would be hard for me to fool them this way - they know I would cut on their bonuses only in dire straits...

A few years ago I was working for a company that was going through a bad time, staff morale was very low, and many of them were only staying until the new year when we got an annual bonus based on the companies performance. One comedian thought it would be a good idea to write an email, supposedly from the board, saying that performance was so bad that no bonus was being awarded. He then sent this email to everyone in his area, who obviously weren’t smart enough to check who had sent it, as over a hundred of them got up and walked out of the building. Unsurprisingly, he lost his job for that!

 

[Sergo]

To be honest I would only do this for poetry, books are too long for me to view on a screen, even if I had a palm top. I will always prefer to have a book in my hand that, if I like it, can be placed on my shelves afterwards.

Yep, exactly the same with me. Completing a good reading I always hope to be able to reread the book sometime, or just to take it from a shelf and look through. So I use these e-books only for reading in metro, or on a plane...

??? That’s really not a piece of prose I can imagine being used to sell something!

You may not believe it, but it seems quite harmonious when they have these words read, and then another voice adds: "We manage it so that no word is lost".

A lot of British people say that they are put off Shakespeare by having to study him at school; as every line is examined and we try to work out the 15 subtle points he is making with each word. Clearly English Literature teachers have a high opinion of the man, that he was able to make all these subtle points in plays that where written for an audience that was half drunk during the performance!

I think almost all of us were put off literature in our school times, as we had to study "socialist ideas", "anti-capitalist ideas" etc., and we were trained to look for those ideas in every piece of literature...
The only good thing I remember about our literature in school is closely connected with our teacher, who has been barely 5 - 7 years older than we, and liked very much her short skirts. I remember we quite often had our pens etc. fall to the floor, so we could dive to the more favourable position...

BTW, did you get to see the Globe when you were in London? It is a recreation of the theatre that Shakespeare managed, and it gives you an idea of what a ‘bear pit’ theatres of that time must have been.

No. I think we should this time...

At one time I was going to learn Russian so I could read War & Peace in it’s original language, somehow that plan seems to have gone wrong as I doubt I could read the title at the moment…

You know, W&P is definetly not a starting thing. I doubt it very much if another five pupils of my class except me have read it then. And I am very much in doubt if they manage to make at least one pupil to read it in each class. My daughter has not read it.
I liked it, but never wanted to reread... Though, right now, when I think about it, maybe I should...

Yes I think that is very true, but even translated poetry can have a beauty. I believe that Pasternak translated a lot of Shakespeare into Russian; it will not be the same but must surely still have some of the power.

Yep, I think Pasternak's translations are beautiful. I tried to translate some of Shakespeare's sonets, some of Poe's poetry, some of LeGuin's short stories...
So I know it is exiting, but quite hard work.

That is interesting. I think amongst some western intellectuals there is a feeling that there is a great nationalism under the surface of Russians. From my experience they can be very critical of their country (as can the British) but there is also a great love. I always had the impression that in your darkest hour, Stalin appealed to the masses love of Mother Russia rather than communism because he knew what the Russian people held closest to their hearts, is that not correct?

...I think I could be considered an average Russian - everything about me is of that quality: I am of middle height, middle build, even of middle age now... And, of course, I belong to middle class, have middle abilities etc. So I believe my opinion could be considered an average one. And I love my country, but if somebody just came to me and told me that, being Russian, I have to do something - I cannot visualize myself doing that. I feel myself proud if our sportsmen (and women) win, but I do not feel ashamed if they fail... I do not feel proud because I am Russian and not, say, Pygmean... I cannot say that I feel proud that our Russian literature is so wanted in the world, but I am not depressed that so many great authors are not Russian. I do not think that I have to use something of Russian origin, if there is something of better quality and reasonable price of some other origin. I do not like the idea that Russians seem to be dying out on the vast expances of our Motherland... But about as much I hate the same thing about other people who seem to be dying out too...
Yes, we have people who say that Russians must understand they are RUSSIANS and "stop debilitating of our Motherland by the foreigners" etc. Those people like to use words like "black-arsed" etc. They like to mention the Japanese as an example of a good result of "The National Idea". It seems they do not understand that, unlike Japan, Russia is a multinational country, and the Russian Idea will blow up our country, rather than to make it stronger. I do not think they are near 10% of our population, and more likely less than 5%...
So... As to Stalin... His "Brothers and sisters..." were a very good PR action. It had been addressed directly to each one person, as some kind of a private message rather than a usual slogan. So essentially that was pointed at each personality rather than at sense of patriotism, IMHO...
But, of course, such things could be explained very much different depending on the one doing the explanation...
I do not think I cleared the problem of our patriotism even slightly, but at least I have tried...

A bit like being Japans leading Country and Western singer…

Exactly.

Modern Russian bands are unknown over here. In Britain we tend to only listen to English speaking/singing groups, in fact we only really listen to what the French call ‘Les Anglo-Saxon’ groups (Britain/USA/Canada/Australia).

I am aware of that. Most our bands are not good enough to be listened too. (should ask my daughter's opinion sometime...). There are some "wordy" groups even now, their songs are sadly misterious... Or misteriously sad... Listening to them it is very difficult not to remember that time is running by, you never will be young again, and to love somebody is great, but that rarely lasts for long... It seems I like such stuff, but sometimes it is too depressing.
And we have a lot of the so-called "prison lyrics". I dislike it very strongly.

The best thing to do is ... perhaps post a message here…

This I've done, but it seems my mistake was that I posted it in the misc section...

That’s kind of the transformation that Foyles is undergoing, it used to be all old wood shelves and everything ordered in a way that made no sense, and now they are changing to the glass and plastic look. Gone are the days when you used to find the chess section next to books on pet incontinence just because the owner felt they gave off the same aura….a simpler and yet at the same time more confusing era…

Wow... Some years more and my eyes will water at the thought of "the good old times"... Too bad...

I’m sure she’ll have a great time…

Yep, it seems she has. Never got a SMS from her since her leaving Moscow.

Yes, the Novi Russki are well known for their subtlety and understated displays of wealth.

Yes, they were funny guys. Too bad not much of them left...

A few years ago I was working for a company that was going through a bad time, staff morale was very low, and many of them were only staying until the new year when we got an annual bonus based on the companies performance. One comedian thought it would be a good idea to write an email, supposedly from the board, saying that performance was so bad that no bonus was being awarded. He then sent this email to everyone in his area, who obviously weren’t smart enough to check who had sent it, as over a hundred of them got up and walked out of the building. Unsurprisingly, he lost his job for that!

It seems I've heard this story... Yes, sure, my friend worked as a system administrator for a big Russian advertising company, and his bosses had him search for a person who had done essentially the same thing - sent messages with the information that some people were fired, some - having their bonuses severely clipped... The villain knew his PC, and my friend had a tough job finding him. It turned out to be one of the directors, who planned to get some personal favors out of the critical situation resulted from his actions...

 

[Kenny Shovel]

… I use these e-books only for reading in metro, or on a plane...

Even that is to much for me. I’ve worked with computers for 16 years now and I still prefer to print information off rather than look at it on the screen.

You may not believe it, but it seems quite harmonious when they have these words read, and then another voice adds: "We manage it so that no word is lost".

As with many things you describe, I’m sure it makes sense in Russia.

I think almost all of us were put off literature in our school times, as we had to study "socialist ideas", "anti-capitalist ideas" etc., and we were trained to look for those ideas in every piece of literature...

Sure, I’d be interested in what English language books made it onto the Soviet school curriculum. I’m sure I read somewhere that Dickens was an approved writer, presumably as he was perceived to be in sympathy with the socially deprived.

You know, W&P is definetly not a starting thing. I doubt it very much if another five pupils of my class except me have read it then.

I’m not sure why I wanted to read that, normally I don’t like books over about 300 pages, as I have a very short attention span.

Yep, I think Pasternak's translations are beautiful. I tried to translate some of Shakespeare's sonnets, some of Poe's poetry, some of LeGuin's short stories... So I know it is exiting, but quite hard work.

That reminds me, I need to re-read Shakespeare’s sonnets myself.

I love my country, but if somebody just came to me and told me that, being Russian, I have to do something

For me the line is between being patriotic (loving your country) without being nationalistic (hating other peoples). What you would do in the name of your country is a question of your personal ethics; I agree that I don’t feel compelled into actions for the sake of a flag.

Yes, we have people who say that Russians must understand they are RUSSIANS and "stop debilitating of our Motherland by the foreigners" etc. Those people like to use words like "black-arsed" etc. They like to mention the Japanese as an example of a good result of "The National Idea". It seems they do not understand that, unlike Japan, Russia is a multinational country, and the Russian Idea will blow up our country, rather than to make it stronger. I do not think they are near 10% of our population, and more likely less than 5%...

Also worth noting that Japans post-war economic strength was reliant on being rebuilt with massive American help! Japans real experience of “The National Idea” could be said to have ended in their involvement in the war with China and WW2 itself. How is the Rape of Nanking and the destruction of their major cities an example to follow?

So... As to Stalin... His "Brothers and sisters..." were a very good PR action. It had been addressed directly to each one person, as some kind of a private message rather than a usual slogan. So essentially that was pointed at each personality rather than at sense of patriotism, IMHO...

That is an interesting interpretation, thanks.
In a way we had a similar situation at a similar low point of our war with Germany. In our case Churchill made it sound like it was our destiny to survive and almost as if we would let him down if we did not. Strange way to put it, but perhaps he was good at playing to British sensibilities.

I am aware of that. Most our bands are not good enough to be listened too. (should ask my daughter's opinion sometime...).

British universities tend to have a lot of good up and coming bands playing at them, there may be some playing at Reading whilst she is there.

Wow... Some years more and my eyes will water at the thought of "the good old times"... Too bad...

Or drink vodka and get the effect now…

Yep, it seems she has. Never got a SMS from her since her leaving Moscow.

I remember going on a school camping holiday to France when I was 12, I didn’t phone or write to my mother for two weeks, it’s what kids do!
I’m sure she’s just having too much fun checking out a new country and a new class with lots of new boys in it.

It seems I've heard this story... Yes, sure, my friend worked as a system administrator for a big Russian advertising company, and his bosses had him search for a person who had done essentially the same thing - sent messages with the information that some people were fired, some - having their bonuses severely clipped... The villain knew his PC, and my friend had a tough job finding him. It turned out to be one of the directors, who planned to get some personal favors out of the critical situation resulted from his actions...

I suspect that lots of companies had problems like this when they first got e-mail. It makes a big change to how you work, at least it does in the computer industry; you have to learn the art of writing a good email and what to say, when to say it, and to whom.

 

[Sergo]

I’m sure I read somewhere that Dickens was an approved writer, presumably as he was perceived to be in sympathy with the socially deprived.

Yehhhh, let me see... Dickens for sure. Bradbury with his 451F, we had a great radio play based upon 451F, with the steel dog rouming the sreets... Hugo... But only pieces - about Gavrosh, for example... Oooops, that not an English one... The idea was to show that life in the West is unjust and very hard on the working people. I remember films about people in drab clothes searching for something to eat, black people beaten to death etc. I could never see them to the end, so hideous these films were...

Also worth noting that Japans post-war economic strength was reliant on being rebuilt with massive American help! Japans real experience of “The National Idea” could be said to have ended in their involvement in the war with China and WW2 itself. How is the Rape of Nanking and the destruction of their major cities an example to follow?

You know, people who are ready to announce some or other Russian national Idea are rarely concerned about reality. Their main interest is getting audience, using rhetoric skills or some "simple truths" no one would be likely to check.
I remember one officer in Zvyezdny Gorodok, we spent a night together with in my office 18 years ago or so: I was working night shift, and he was sent to me as a night guard. (The building was nearly completed, so many good materials for internal finishing were stored on the premises, and the military, who ordered the building to be build, were getting nervous). So unlike others before him, who came once or twice during the night to get a glimpse of the warehouse's doors, that officer stayed all the night proclaiming his ideas about nationalism. Towards morning I managed to shake some of his ideas (which really has not been too difficult, Ideas were based on the falsified facts and wrong assumptions, so the most needed asset against him was my readiness to hear him out and show him his faults once and again).
But most of them wouldn't even listen to any contrary ideas, using more rhetoric than solid data.

That is an interesting interpretation, thanks.
In a way we had a similar situation at a similar low point of our war with Germany. In our case Churchill made it sound like it was our destiny to survive and almost as if we would let him down if we did not. Strange way to put it, but perhaps he was good at playing to British sensibilities.

A good politician is expected to be...

British universities tend to have a lot of good up and coming bands playing at them, there may be some playing at Reading whilst she is there.

You know, they had something like our small country village air about that campus at Reading. The main campus is great, but the Bluemarshe one is separated from it by several kilometers and 20 or 30 years, it seems...
Though, the daughter liked it immensely. There were no bands or anything like that (except discoteques) on the premises, they were not allowed to go outside of the campus unattended, and there were little of interest on the campus, at least to my eye... But just be together with youngsters from other countries and to know that she can master the language sufficient enough to make good impression on the teachers and to be able to speak without difficulty... Of course discoteques...

By the way, on the way back from the campus to Reading I have asked directions from some old man. He appeared to be slightly drunk and speaking not the same version of English that I did, but finally we understood each other. He was shocked to learn that we were Russian - he has never seen Russians before... Hope I hadn't made too bad an impression...

Wow, what beautiful trains you have... I cannot imagine such expensive things on our rails...

I suspect that lots of companies had problems like this when they first got e-mail. It makes a big change to how you work, at least it does in the computer industry; you have to learn the art of writing a good email and what to say, when to say it, and to whom.

Yep, I was reprimanded once or twice for using too strong language on the vendors. But really I think that it is the result that matters, and if a person gets persuaded to do the right thing after days of writing rubbish, - that's good. Especially if the vendor in question has no hard feelings afterwards and is ready to play again. (And "strong language" means here using "must" rather than more polite forms, etc.)

Ehhh... I am starting to want to come to London again...
But I do not believe I will be able ever to remember that "the left lane is right, and the right lane is wrong".

 

[Kenny Shovel]

The idea was to show that life in the West is unjust and very hard on the working people. I remember films about people in drab clothes searching for something to eat, black people beaten to death etc…

Did they show the English “Mr Pitkin” films in Russia, it’s well known here that they are the only Western films shown in Albania, but I was surprised to find the character was well known in Ukraine as well.

I could never see them to the end, so hideous these films were...

Hideous because of content or the propaganda value they had?

You know, people who are ready to announce some or other Russian national Idea are rarely concerned about reality. Their main interest is getting audience, using rhetoric skills or some "simple truths" no one would be likely to check… most of them wouldn't even listen to any contrary ideas, using more rhetoric than solid data.

Sure, but that description fits all nationalistic sentiment, and is something I think we both try and avoid. Unless it’s anti-French humour, when I join in wholeheartedly.

You know, they had something like our small country village air about that campus at Reading. The main campus is great, but the Bluemarshe one is separated from it by several kilometres and 20 or 30 years, it seems...
Though, the daughter liked it immensely. There were no bands or anything like that (except discotheques) on the premises, they were not allowed to go outside of the campus unattended, and there were little of interest on the campus, at least to my eye... But just be together with youngsters from other countries and to know that she can master the language sufficient enough to make good impression on the teachers and to be able to speak without difficulty... Of course discotheques...

This seems a shame to me, it sounds like she missed out on experiencing England and was just at school instead. I hope she managed to get on some excursions and see something, London perhaps, whilst she was over here.
What about yourself? I think you mentioned going to Harrods by text, but what else did you see?

By the way, on the way back from the campus to Reading I have asked directions from some old man. He appeared to be slightly drunk and speaking not the same version of English that I did, but finally we understood each other. He was shocked to learn that we were Russian - he has never seen Russians before... Hope I hadn't made too bad an impression...

I wouldn’t worry, if he was ‘slightly drunk’ then I’d imagine that pretty much anything would shock him.

Wow, what beautiful trains you have... I cannot imagine such expensive things on our rails...

Erm, most people who use the railways here have a very different impression of the state of our railways! If it was beautiful trains you wanted to see you needed to go to my birthplace York, where there is the National Railway Museum with all the old Steam trains.

Yep, I was reprimanded once or twice for using too strong language on the vendors. But really I think that it is the result that matters, and if a person gets persuaded to do the right thing after days of writing rubbish, - that's good. Especially if the vendor in question has no hard feelings afterwards and is ready to play again. (And "strong language" means here using "must" rather than more polite forms, etc.)

Well, the exact language you use in an email can be very important in business. Also important to be sure that any emails you write giving your true opinion of your manager doesn’t end up being forwarded on to them, as has happened to me in the past!

Ehhh... I am starting to want to come to London again...

Feel free, as your visit covered the period between the suicide bombings and the attempted ones, you can consider yourself a good luck charm.

But I do not believe I will be able ever to remember that "the left lane is right, and the right lane is wrong".

You think the system in Eastern Europe makes sense? The sign indicates to walk across the road, you start to do so and then cars are allowed to move off as well. Is the idea that motor traffic are held at a red light whilst people cross the road really such a f#’king difficult system to implement. I almost had a heart attack the first time I crossed a road in EE and a massive stream of cars started driving at me!

 

[Sergo]

Did they show the English “Mr Pitkin” films in Russia, it’s well known here that they are the only Western films shown in Albania, but I was surprised to find the character was well known in Ukraine as well.

Eh, I've seen a "Mr. Pitkin" film, but only two years ago or so. They were not available in 70-80es here, (at least not for a common audience) I'm sure.

Hideous because of content or the propaganda value they had?

Because of content. I never liked much histories of starved people, thievs in prisons, people beaten because they are different from the regular folk... As to propaganda... I must tell you that until 20 or 25 years old I could not have seen that there is anything seriously wrong with what we were told about life by the communists. When our well-known skaters left USSR and applied for political asylum in the USA, I was genuinly ashamed for them - why, they have had everything they wished, - thought I, - why they tricked us in this way? So, you know, when propaganda is made by real professionals, - one is not always capable of seeing it for what it really is...

Sure, but that description fits all nationalistic sentiment, and is something I think we both try and avoid. Unless it’s anti-French humour, when I join in wholeheartedly.

Yep. By the way, what is wrong with the French? I start thinking about coming to France this year, or maybe the next... So maybe I have to think about some precautions?
Or is it just a matter of some personal damage some French person inflicted on you? You know, when one of my girls left me to live with a person from Strogino (a Northern-Western region of Moscow) I started to hate all Stroginers (at least I claimed it to be so - for fun mostly)... Then when another one left me in favour of a sportsman (academic rower, or something like that, 2 m high with a body Michelangelo would have killed for), I pretended to dislike all sportsmen having something to do with boats...
???

This seems a shame to me, it sounds like she missed out on experiencing England and was just at school instead. I hope she managed to get on some excursions and see something, London perhaps, whilst she was over here.
What about yourself? I think you mentioned going to Harrods by text, but what else did you see?

Yep, I also think that a shame. But they came to Bath for a full day (she even started to pronounce it in the English way. We pronounce it like "But" here, you know). Then they came for a full day to London, and even came to Kew gardens.
As to myself... As always, we walked through London for days. We have found the Holland park - the Japanese garden there is unimaginable, I've spent half an hour making photos & videos of it. We came to several nurseries for plants, shops selling real netsukes... We've bought a suitcaseload of books - mostly on gardening and interior design, but some fiction too... (But far from everything I wanted - otherwise they would have had us thrown out of a plane for overloading it).
We drank some beer and tried some foods, bought some clothes - but mostly just walked and looked. I understand it is not the way everybody would have had it, but for me it is the best way to know better a place I do not know well enough. To get a feel of it, you know...

Erm, most people who use the railways here have a very different impression of the state of our railways! If it was beautiful trains you wanted to see you needed to go to my birthplace York, where there is the National Railway Museum with all the old Steam trains.

I understand what you mean: I like them the Steamers very much myself, I even have seen them in operation about 40 years ago or so... I was a small boy then, and my aunt took me on the walk to a small railroad near Serpoohov, where two or three steamers were still operating...
But now I really meant that I liked your regular trains - they are much better than what we have, in way of comfort, speed etc.

Well, the exact language you use in an email can be very important in business. Also important to be sure that any emails you write giving your true opinion of your manager doesn’t end up being forwarded on to them, as has happened to me in the past!

Yep. I'm sure I still have much to learn. With this truck problem we still have, I have written some pretty nasty letters to our Finnish warehouse people, who messed our loading...
By the way, as you work for an insurance company, would it be possible to get a business offer from your company for insuring our goods? Or your company operates in the UK only?

Feel free, as your visit covered the period between the suicide bombings and the attempted ones, you can consider yourself a good luck charm.

OK, thanks, I will...

You think the system in Eastern Europe makes sense? The sign indicates to walk across the road, you start to do so and then cars are allowed to move off as well. Is the idea that motor traffic are held at a red light whilst people cross the road really such a f#’king difficult system to implement. I almost had a heart attack the first time I crossed a road in EE and a massive stream of cars started driving at me!

Errrr... Cannot tell what you are talking about - must be some situation we do not have here. In Moscow when the pedestrians light is green - you could hope with some safety to cross a road. Of course not all the drivers abide the law - I remember one case when I was crossing a road on my green light and was nearly driven over by a car which hasn't stopped on its red light... But that's a very unusual experience here. Not more then a hundred people die because of this every year...

Then, you know, we have quite a lot of pedestrian underground ways - I think many hundred that of London: so if you do not mind walking several hundred meters (or maybe kilometers sometimes) - you can always count on a possibility to cross a road safely underground... If only you would not meet some bad man with a knife there... And then we have pedestrian bridges. Only one or two of them have ever crushed down.

 

[Kenny Shovel]

I must tell you that until 20 or 25 years old I could not have seen that there is anything seriously wrong with what we were told about life by the communists.

Didn’t you listen to things like BBC World Service or Radio Free Europe then?

When our well-known skaters left USSR and applied for political asylum in the USA, I was genuinely ashamed for them - why, they have had everything they wished, - thought I, - why they tricked us in this way?

The most famous Russians to defect that I can remember were Ballet Dancers like Nureyev (or Near-enough as some British comedians used to call him)and Baryshnikov.

So, you know, when propaganda is made by real professionals, - one is not always capable of seeing it for what it really is...

Sure, and can come from all sides. I think I’m right in saying that the first person to use the phrase ‘Iron Curtain’ wasn’t Churchill, as most people think, but actually Joseph Goebbels.

By the way, what is wrong with the French? I start thinking about coming to France this year, or maybe the next... So maybe I have to think about some precautions?...Or is it just a matter of some personal damage some French person inflicted on you?

There is nothing wrong with France; the British (English in particular) and French have a kind of love-hate relationship where we make fun of each other. You know, if you want to understand the British better you really need to get your head round the concept of ‘taking the piss’ (gently, or not so gently, making fun of someone or something) as it’s quite an important part of our culture.
If you want to visit France I'd recommend the Louire Valley region, it's beautiful and has great vineyards and chateaus

Yep, I also think that a shame. But they came to Bath for a full day (she even started to pronounce it in the English way. We pronounce it like "But" here, you know). Then they came for a full day to London, and even came to Kew gardens.

There are two ways to pronounce Bath in English. If you’re from a very well to do family, you’d say Bar-th; if you’re common as muck like me you say Ba-th. Sticking letters into words where they don’t exist is another of the things that the Victorian upper classes used to do when they where bored. I think I’ve given a good list of these now:

Start wars with people who are armed with nothing more than large sticks
Steal other countries ancient artefacts
Invent four or five new, and mostly pointless, sports each day
Add unnecessary letters into the pronunciation of perfectly good words

I’ll try and keep the list updated as we go on.

BTW, perhaps now you have all visited Britain and returned they would be less jumpy if you tried to go on holiday together?

We've bought a suitcaseload of books - mostly on gardening and interior design, but some fiction too... (But far from everything I wanted - otherwise they would have had us thrown out of a plane for overloading it).

Did you find Foyles?

We drank some beer and tried some foods, bought some clothes - but mostly just walked and looked. I understand it is not the way everybody would have had it, but for me it is the best way to know better a place I do not know well enough. To get a feel of it, you know...

It’s difficult to know what would give you the best impression on a country, your ideas would probably be different to someone who lived there for example.

But now I really meant that I liked your regular trains - they are much better than what we have, in way of comfort, speed etc.

But are still considered unreliable.

By the way, as you work for an insurance company, would it be possible to get a business offer from your company for insuring our goods? Or your company operates in the UK only?

What you do is probably much too specialised for the companies I worked for in the past.

Errrr... Cannot tell what you are talking about - must be some situation we do not have here. In Moscow when the pedestrians light is green - you could hope with some safety to cross a road. Of course not all the drivers abide the law - I remember one case when I was crossing a road on my green light and was nearly driven over by a car which hasn't stopped on its red light... But that's a very unusual experience here. Not more then a hundred people die because of this every year...

I was assuming that your system was similar to the one I’ve used in other Eastern European countries where you are given the green light to cross but so are some streams of cars which are supposed to stop for you.

Then, you know, we have quite a lot of pedestrian underground ways - I think many hundred that of London: so if you do not mind walking several hundred meters (or maybe kilometers sometimes) - you can always count on a possibility to cross a road safely underground... If only you would not meet some bad man with a knife there...

I remember this from Kiev. Plus I understand it is safer to use these than try and cross some of the larger roads in Moscow.

And then we have pedestrian bridges. Only one or two of them have ever crushed down.

Well, you can’t ask for better than that.

Edit: Almost forgot, I'm reading the latest Boris Akunin novel translation into English. In it he mentions that you need to learn three languages, Russian, Mat and Fenya. I'd not come across Fenya before, but having googled for info on it, there seems to be a little similarity to the origins of 'Cockney Rhyming Slang', as in it started as a kind of code for criminals.

 

[Stewart]

You think the system in Eastern Europe makes sense? The sign indicates to walk across the road, you start to do so and then cars are allowed to move off as well.

This happened to me in Gdynia, Poland. It didn't happen in Prague although I did get told off by a copper for crossing a road during a red light despite no cars coming; the green light took almost seven minutes to shine. I believe that you can find the maniacs on the roads outwith Prague.

 

[Kenny Shovel]

This happened to me in Gdynia, Poland.

And I've experienced it from the Baltics to the Ukraine, and assumed it was some kind of Soviet-Blok wide propulation control system.
But for some reason it seems that Russia has escaped the madness, not often you can say that.

 

[Sergo]

Didn’t you listen to things like BBC World Service or Radio Free Europe then?

Yes I did - I've always liked to listen to SW on my radio. But when you have two different versions of the same event - you can only guess which one is truth. By the way, those waves were very heavily noised then... We even had a "noiser" station near our house in 60-es...

The most famous Russians to defect that I can remember were Ballet Dancers like Nureyev (or Near-enough as some British comedians used to call him)and Baryshnikov.

I've meant Belousova & Protopopov.
http://www.figureskatingmystery.com/2005/03/belousova-protopopov.html

There is nothing wrong with France; the British (English in particular) and French have a kind of love-hate relationship where we make fun of each other. You know, if you want to understand the British better you really need to get your head round the concept of ‘taking the piss’ (gently, or not so gently, making fun of someone or something) as it’s quite an important part of our culture.

It seems to me akin to our custom between old friends to make fun of one another then...

I think I’ve given a good list of these now:

Start wars with people who are armed with nothing more than large sticks
Steal other countries ancient artefacts
Invent four or five new, and mostly pointless, sports each day
Add unnecessary letters into the pronunciation of perfectly good words

I’ll try and keep the list updated as we go on.

Errr... Should remember to think of specific features our elite has... The only one that readily comes to mind is never to do yourself as you proclaim. For example, if you say that it is time for honest people to start paying all the taxes, - you surely have to declare your own monthly income not more than one-tenth of the real one (better just a smallest fraction - not more than $200 per month or so), and have all your houses, lands and airplanes shown as property of your old relatives.

BTW, perhaps now you have all visited Britain and returned they would be less jumpy if you tried to go on holiday together?

That would be logical. Though one can never be sure with the consular people...

Did you find Foyles?

Yes. But most books we've bought at Waterstones'.

It’s difficult to know what would give you the best impression on a country, your ideas would probably be different to someone who lived there for example.

Sure. I've always been a walker - I like to walk and see. It is also good to speak with the natives... But alas it is not always possible.

But are still considered unreliable.

Ha. Which means of transportation aren't? Remember the anecdote about driving a car being much more dangerous than flying on a plane, as somebody was killed in his car by a crushing plane?

What you do is probably much too specialised for the companies I worked for in the past.

Maybe. And maybe not. What I need is full insurance for our goods en route from vendors in the USA, Far East and EU to Moscow through our transit warehouse in Helsinki. The best is to cover everything from door to door, but only to EU-Russian border would be suitable too.

I was assuming that your system was similar to the one I’ve used in other Eastern European countries where you are given the green light to cross but so are some streams of cars which are supposed to stop for you.

No. When the pedestrians are given the green, - they have some time to cross the road. Usually it is enough to cross a road safely (our roads are often much wider than yours: to cross a road not on a pedestrian crossing one must be mad or extremely lucky).

I remember this from Kiev.

I see. We have much more underground crossings than there are in Kiev: our city authorities like construction works very much...

Edit: Almost forgot, I'm reading the latest Boris Akunin novel translation into English. In it he mentions that you need to learn three languages, Russian, Mat and Fenya. I'd not come across Fenya before, but having googled for info on it, there seems to be a little similarity to the origins of 'Cockney Rhyming Slang', as in it started as a kind of code for criminals.

You know, that's an aberration. Fenya has never been in wide use in Russia, and now is even less so than 20 years ago or so. An average person knows not more than two or three common Fenya words that are used in TV serials. In the past, when more Russians had prison experience behind them, and the prison theme has been considered more pathetic - I think more people knew this code, but it has been before my time obviously. As to our Mat... Of course every Russian knows it. But I doubt if it contains more words than there are "tabu" words in English...

 

[novella]

Uh oh. So now you're going to steal Kenny Shovel back and tie him up in this thread again, huh?

 

[Sergo]

Uh oh. So now you're going to steal Kenny Shovel back and tie him up in this thread again, huh?

At least I will try.

 

[Kenny Shovel]

Yes I did - I've always liked to listen to SW on my radio. But when you have two different versions of the same event - you can only guess which one is truth. By the way, those waves were very heavily noised then...

I think they used to get jammed from time to time by the Soviet authorities, although that may just be the plot of a film I’m remembering…

I've meant Belousova & Protopopov.
http://www.figureskatingmystery.com...protopopov.html

Thanks, that was interesting. We didn’t really have people defecting to Russia apart from some famous British ‘traitors’…

It seems to me akin to our custom between old friends to make fun of one another then...

You’ll find it in all cultures to an extent, but it’s quite important to the British. I suspect it’s a pretty deep rooted instinct in people. I remember a few months back I heard an interview with a British survival expert who makes programmes for TV. He said that when he meets what we would regard as fairly primitive tribes of people, he can connect with them very quickly as they all seem to have this sense of humour. Instead of acting like they are a precious artefact to be worshiped, he makes fun of there personal characteristics and they do the same to him. An interesting approach, which seems to break down barriers quickly, not sure I’d try it with the Japanese though.

Errr... Should remember to think of specific features our elite has... The only one that readily comes to mind is never to do yourself as you proclaim.

Yup, ‘do as I say not as I do’.

That would be logical. Though one can never be sure with the consular people...

Have you taken your daughter with you often when you travel?

Yes. But most books we've bought at Waterstones'.

I prefer to use Foyle’s as they’re an independent shop, rather than a chain. Although to be honest, Borders which is opposite Foyle’s has probably got a better fiction department.

Sure. I've always been a walker - I like to walk and see. It is also good to speak with the natives... But alas it is not always possible.

London’s probably not the best place for this, as there are so many tourists in the centre and Londoners don’t have a good reputation for being friendly.

Maybe. And maybe not. What I need is full insurance for our goods en route from vendors in the USA, Far East and EU to Moscow through our transit warehouse in Helsinki. The best is to cover everything from door to door, but only to EU-Russian border would be suitable too.

That sounds like you want a specialist company to me, if you’re talking large amounts of money involved then Lloyds of London might cover it.

No. When the pedestrians are given the green, - they have some time to cross the road. Usually it is enough to cross a road safely (our roads are often much wider than yours: to cross a road not on a pedestrian crossing one must be mad or extremely lucky).

But Russians are mad!

You know, that's an aberration. Fenya has never been in wide use in Russia, and now is even less so than 20 years ago or so. An average person knows not more than two or three common Fenya words that are used in TV serials. In the past, when more Russians had prison experience behind them, and the prison theme has been considered more pathetic - I think more people knew this code,

The book is set towards the end of the 19th century and the character is trying to infiltrate the criminal elements in Moscow, so I suspect the need to learn Russian, Mat and Fenya makes sense in that context.

 

[Sergo]

I think they used to get jammed from time to time by the Soviet authorities, although that may just be the plot of a film I’m remembering…

No, they really got jammed. I told you we had a jamming station near our home. It was circled with a wooden fence, behind it there were trained dogs on a wire and guards with rifles. Wow, how could we lived so...

You’ll find it in all cultures to an extent, but it’s quite important to the British. I suspect it’s a pretty deep rooted instinct in people. I remember a few months back I heard an interview with a British survival expert who makes programmes for TV. He said that when he meets what we would regard as fairly primitive tribes of people, he can connect with them very quickly as they all seem to have this sense of humour. Instead of acting like they are a precious artefact to be worshiped, he makes fun of there personal characteristics and they do the same to him. An interesting approach, which seems to break down barriers quickly, not sure I’d try it with the Japanese though.

Yep, there must be something here: instead of having to think about his dignity, a person thinks about the situation and other people... (Could be interesting to ask the Japanese about it...)

Have you taken your daughter with you often when you travel?

Mostly yes. We had been together to UAE, Spain, Turkey, Czech Rep., Maldives... And she had been alone to Bulgaria, Finland, Sweden, Norway, Denmark, Italy...

BTW, what about you?

London’s probably not the best place for this, as there are so many tourists in the centre and Londoners don’t have a good reputation for being friendly.

Hm. And I thought Londoners quite friendly... My wife had to tear me away from some gentleman selling paintings, who told me how he loved Russia back in the 70es when he had been there... We have discussed some political aspects and were about to start talking about contemporary literature, when the wife turned berserk...

That sounds like you want a specialist company to me, if you’re talking large amounts of money involved then Lloyds of London might cover it.

Really, our contract with Lloyds expired day before yesterday. They wouldn't renew it, as there were more losses last year then were needed for them to feel good. So it would be great to find an insurance company ready to think about procedures to be taken on our Finnish warehouse, where most of our losses take place...

But Russians are mad!

Yes, sure we are mad. Because of this some people try to cross our roads every day. Some even try to cross our Outer Circling Road - ten or twelve lanes and heavy traffic 24 hour a day... And a metal barrier more than meter high in the middle of the road... Not all of them are killed...

The book is set towards the end of the 19th century and the character is trying to infiltrate the criminal elements in Moscow, so I suspect the need to learn Russian, Mat and Fenya makes sense in that context.

OK, that explains it... Though in circles other than criminal Fenya had been the most popular only in 1940es - 60es... Never before or after it had been spoken even fragmentarily by ordinary people, so far as I know.