Hello from Russia!

[Kenny Shovel]

Oh, I had not known you have many Russian construction workers...

I was partly joking, I told you before I have often heard Russian spoken by workers in London during the last year or two, but they could be from Latvia…

Thanks, I was in doubt when writing that whether I should use "cheap" or not - I am aware of its meanings. But sometimes to use phrases like "reasonably priced" changes impression one would like to convey... OK, I will try to comply.

Most British people would say cheap, but I think the advice I was given was sound, “Reasonably priced” is a better phrase.

So, now we have before us much easier projects than planting money to rise money - we have to make the flat livable (they sell it only with windows and radiators - bare walls & floors, nothing else), to buy furniture

Some people in Britain make a living from doing things like this. Buy an expty house, turn it into a home and then sell for profit.

It will depend on our visas - we may be not granted them, as though my wife had been to UK twice and I - once, it is the first time all of our family will be in the UK simultaneously.

Yes, this will make a difference, they can be very strict about such things. Good Luck with that.

Regards,

KS

 

[Sergo]

I was partly joking, I told you before I have often heard Russian spoken by workers in London during the last year or two, but they could be from Latvia…

= Yep, I remember... I somehow thought that you got some piece of statistics... Latvian... Hardly. You know, people native to Baltic States were never too keen on Russian, and now they do not have the last reason for that... Russians from Latvia - maybe, for all I know.

We have mostly guys from Uzbekistan and Tajikistan here. They help us with the works in the garden. Some of them know much less Russian than you do - but they do not drink vodka and they are eager to earn money - so all in all they are better then our local guys from the nearest village. =

Some people in Britain make a living from doing things like this. Buy an expty house, turn it into a home and then sell for profit.

= I would like to try that - but I would have needed much money to dump into it, and without a well-known and fashionable name it would not be really big profit and quick sell.
And I do not have that much money to spare, and I do not especially like to get credits from bank or somebody.
By the way, just buying flats in Moscow and selling them after a year of owning gave about 15% a year profit until recently. =


Yes, this will make a difference, they can be very strict about such things. Good Luck with that.

= Thanks, I think we will need that. =

Regards,

 

[Kenny Shovel]

Latvian... Hardly. You know, people native to Baltic States were never too keen on Russian, and now they do not have the last reason for that... Russians from Latvia - maybe, for all I know.

Yup, those were the ones I meant. I’ve been corrected for trying to speak Russian to Latvians before..

We have mostly guys from Uzbekistan and Tajikistan here. They help us with the works in the garden. Some of them know much less Russian than you do - but they do not drink vodka and they are eager to earn money - so all in all they are better then our local guys from the nearest village.

Here we have legal immigrants, people from EU who can work here by law. The first 8 months after EU enlargement, May 04 until the end of the year, there was something like 130,000 registered to work here from the new countries, although some are thought to have already been here working in the ‘black’ economy. The number of illegal immigrants is I think unknown; there was an interview with Blair during the election and he was asked what the figure was and he avoided the question. The interviewer kept asking him and he avoided answering every time, someone counted and he was asked something like 18 times.

By the way, just buying flats in Moscow and selling them after a year of owning gave about 15% a year profit until recently.

That sounds similar to the situation in Britain, my house has increased in value by about 150-200% in nine or ten years. But of course all houses have had a similar rise so it gives no real advantage to me, but it does give a big disadvantage to people trying to buy their first house; it is quite a problem for young people.

 

[Sergo]

[QUOTE...

Here we have legal immigrants, people from EU who can work here by law. The first 8 months after EU enlargement, May 04 until the end of the year, there was something like 130,000 registered to work here from the new countries, although some are thought to have already been here working in the ‘black’ economy. The number of illegal immigrants is I think unknown; there was an interview with Blair during the election and he was asked what the figure was and he avoided the question. The interviewer kept asking him and he avoided answering every time, someone counted and he was asked something like 18 times.

= I cannot understand why there are so many illegal immigrants in Russia: they say that technically to get a legal permit is quite easy: to get an immigrant card everybody is given on entering Russia, and within three days come to local Militia office to stamp it, having brought a contract of lending a flat and a medical permit, and then to get the labour permit, with the personal tax number... For that one need a contract with employer, showing monthly wages and labour terms... Naturally, to give work to foreigners an employer have to get a permit (that takes from 1,5 month if you deal through an agency and pay for their assistance, or up to 4 month, if you do everything by yourself, and pay only $120 yourself). Alas, to arrange all of it one needs at least a week, and militia would start to harrass them as illegal immigrants on the fourth day. To pay militia off they need some money, and to get money they have to start working... And in three days they are legally illegal immigrants, and to come to militia after that will mean they would have to get to prison and maybe deported for violating the law.

So... Everything being so easy, why there are almost no legal immigrants in Russia? =

That sounds similar to the situation in Britain, my house has increased in value by about 150-200% in nine or ten years. But of course all houses have had a similar rise so it gives no real advantage to me, but it does give a big disadvantage to people trying to buy their first house; it is quite a problem for young people.

= I've heard of it. I remember that the Government discussed possibility of special loans to young English nationals to make the buying easier... But I do not know whether that program yielded any results other than are usual for similar programs in Russia...[/QUOTE]

What the heck? The forum keeps telling me that I have to add at least 10 characters to my message...

 

[Kenny Shovel]

I cannot understand why there are so many illegal immigrants in Russia: they say that technically to get a legal permit is quite easy: to get an immigrant card everybody is given on entering Russia, and within three days come to local Militia office to stamp it, having brought a contract of lending a flat and a medical permit, and then to get the labour permit, with the personal tax number... For that one need a contract with employer, showing monthly wages and labour terms... Naturally, to give work to foreigners an employer have to get a permit (that takes from 1,5 month if you deal through an agency and pay for their assistance, or up to 4 month, if you do everything by yourself, and pay only $120 yourself). Alas, to arrange all of it one needs at least a week, and militia would start to harass them as illegal immigrants on the fourth day. To pay militia off they need some money, and to get money they have to start working... And in three days they are legally illegal immigrants, and to come to militia after that will mean they would have to get to prison and maybe deported for violating the law.

So... Everything being so easy, why there are almost no legal immigrants in Russia?

Nice to see irony isn’t just a British thing. Immigration it quite a hot topic in Britain at the moment, with some saying it is out of control and some saying it is needed.

I've heard of it. I remember that the Government discussed possibility of special loans to young English nationals to make the buying easier... But I do not know whether that program yielded any results other than are usual for similar programs in Russia...

I vaguely remember this being discussed but nothing has happened about it to my knowledge. The problem is a lack of affordable housing for first time buyers, particularly in the South East. But a lot of the sites that would need to be built on are called ‘Green Belt’ sites. This is an area outside and surrounding cities and towns which is supposed to be protected from large scale building to protect the environment. You could choose to go another route and try and lower house prices but this happened naturally about 15 years ago when interest rates were high. What happened was that a lot of people, my best friend included, bought houses and when the prices went down they were left with loans larger than the value of the home; this is called ‘negative equity’. Not a nice situation to be in, particularly if you have a young family, as he did.

What the heck? The forum keeps telling me that I have to add at least 10 characters to my message...

It’s because you started your answer with an open Quote and ended it with a close Quote, therefore the forum software thinks that you have quoted a previous post without adding any text of your own. If you want to have quotes in your post, in the way that I do, you need to use the following format.
[#Quote=Kenny Shovel]
My comments.
[#/Quote]
Your comments
[#Quote=Kenny Shovel]
My comments.
[#/Quote]
Your comments

And so on…

Obviously you remove the '#'; I just put them in the example to stop the forum software from turning them into actual quotes!

 

[Sergo]

Nice to see irony isn’t just a British thing. Immigration it quite a hot topic in Britain at the moment, with some saying it is out of control and some saying it is needed.

= We surely need it, as there not enough of us for all what has to be done in Russia.=


I vaguely remember this being discussed but nothing has happened about it to my knowledge. The problem is a lack of affordable housing for first time buyers, particularly in the South East. But a lot of the sites that would need to be built on are called ‘Green Belt’ sites. This is an area outside and surrounding cities and towns which is supposed to be protected from large scale building to protect the environment. You could choose to go another route and try and lower house prices but this happened naturally about 15 years ago when interest rates were high. What happened was that a lot of people, my best friend included, bought houses and when the prices went down they were left with loans larger than the value of the home; this is called ‘negative equity’. Not a nice situation to be in, particularly if you have a young family, as he did.

= Yep, I see. It seems to be even worse than what we have here. =


It’s because you started your answer with an open Quote and ended it with a close Quote, therefore the forum software thinks that you have quoted a previous post without adding any text of your own. If you want to have quotes in your post, in the way that I do, you need to use the following format.
[#Quote=Kenny Shovel]
My comments.
[#/Quote]
Your comments
[#Quote=Kenny Shovel]
My comments.
[#/Quote]
Your comments

And so on…

Obviously you remove the '#'; I just put them in the example to stop the forum software from turning them into actual quotes!

Wow... Too difficult for a PC illiterate person like me...
But I will try sometime...

 

[Kenny Shovel]

We surely need it, as there not enough of us for all what has to be done in Russia

Yes, I’m sure I’ve read that your population is in decline. In Britain I think that is the case in Scotland, and in general the population everywhere is getting older. So therefore we will have less people in work to pay for a larger amount of pensioners. This is one of the reasons put forward for the need for economic migration.

Yep, I see. It seems to be even worse than what we have here.

Well, I suspect your government wouldn’t worry about building on unspoilt land, just me guessing.

Wow... Too difficult for a PC illiterate person like me...
But I will try sometime...

It’s really not that difficult once you get the hang of it.

 

[Sergo]

Yes, I’m sure I’ve read that your population is in decline. In Britain I think that is the case in Scotland, and in general the population everywhere is getting older.

= I imagine that this situation is the same for all European countries, save for those who allow immigration on a big scale. I do not have statistics for it, but it seems a logical thing for me. For example, the only Russian region in which there is a stable population growth is... Chechnya. As for Germany or UK - I think that legal immigration does the trick of preventing population from declining. Or I am wrong? =

So therefore we will have less people in work to pay for a larger amount of pensioners. This is one of the reasons put forward for the need for economic migration.


= There are quite a lot of labour positions which are filled with immigrants only of late. For example, it is almost impossible to find Russians between people who clean our streets and houses - that gap is filled now by guys from Uzbekistan and Tajikistan. The same is right about our construction sites, but there are Ukrainians, Belorussians and Moldovans as well. Roads building is mostly taken care of by Armenians and Azerbayjanis - I do not understand it, as usually these two peoples do not like each other too well.
It would seem that our people are not too much interested in work... =

Well, I suspect your government wouldn’t worry about building on unspoilt land, just me guessing.It’s really not that difficult once you get the hang of it.

= That's not to say much about it. Not building on unspoilt land - that's the minor consideration here.
Most of our people have no money to buy city apartments, and to get money from a bank is almost impossible or too expensive, so I had not heard of a problem you mentioned. But we have others: it is quite often that a person who thought that he/she had bought a flat in a new house not yet finished, finds out that there are others (sometimes up to three - four) who had paid for exactly the same flat. Or the house is not finished - and the money spent on building could not be found of course... (Remember Comedians?) And this problem doesn't concerns the State - as they say that it is a free enterprize, and any person who choose to invest money in building, does it at own risk.

And as to building country houses... We have plenty of them. Some build the buildings themselves, others have them build, sometimes quite luxury wooden houses imported from Finland, sometimes - brick castles of immense cost... Sometimes our country houses are built too near lakes or rivers, and now these buildings are supposedly have to be demolished in order to preserve nature, but I doubt that it would be ever done...

But most of our country houses are just structures being erected in accordance with cash inflow: first year - the basement, second - walls and roof, third - internal finishing... Then - the owner starts to ajust some new parts to his house: glassed room for Summer tea drinking, then - a toilet, then - additional room... So after ten years or so you would be amazed at the result: some architect may even get a nervous breakdown having seen such a marvel of contemporary architecture... =

 

[cabrasopa]

Hi sergo, good to have you here

Just about to start my first Graham Greene book 'Monsignor Quixote'


Cabrasopa

 

[Sergo]

Hi sergo, good to have you here

Just about to start my first Graham Greene book 'Monsignor Quixote'


Cabrasopa

Thanks, dear Cabrasopa.

I had not read much of Greene - but hope to catch on in future... So far I like him much.

 

[Kenny Shovel]

I imagine that this situation is the same for all European countries, save for those who allow immigration on a big scale. I do not have statistics for it, but it seems a logical thing for me.

I’m pretty sure you’re right, I think that the population is in decline for most European countries apart from one or two, I think Sweden may be an exception, but that’s just a piece of info lodged at the back of my mind, I may be wrong.

For example, the only Russian region in which there is a stable population growth is... Chechnya.

Not often you see Chechnya and stable in the same sentence…

As for Germany or UK - I think that legal immigration does the trick of preventing population from declining. Or I am wrong?

I can’t speak for Germany but in Britain I think that’s very much the case, in fact I think ours is increasing slightly.

There are quite a lot of labour positions which are filled with immigrants only of late. For example, it is almost impossible to find Russians between people who clean our streets and houses - that gap is filled now by guys from Uzbekistan and Tajikistan. The same is right about our construction sites, but there are Ukrainians, Belorussians and Moldovans as well. Roads building is mostly taken care of by Armenians and Azerbayjanis - I do not understand it, as usually these two peoples do not like each other too well.
It would seem that our people are not too much interested in work...

I think I’ve mentioned this before but the main areas that need immigrant workers in Britain are skilled areas like the medical profession, skilled construction workers, plumbers (who can earn a lot of money) electricians etc The other end is unskilled low-paid work like labouring or working in the catering industry. We also have quite a lot of foreign students at any one time as well, the boarding school near my mothers house has hundreds of Chinese children. I suspect this is a combination of wanting to learn English and perhaps a good reputation of education because of the fame of Oxford & Cambridge, but you would know better about that than me.

Most of our people have no money to buy city apartments, and to get money from a bank is almost impossible or too expensive, so I had not heard of a problem you mentioned.

In Britain, it is the thing you try to do as you go through life, to buy a house, we are much more of a nation of home-owners than say in France which has a similar standard of living but where it is more traditional to rent.

But we have others: it is quite often that a person who thought that he/she had bought a flat in a new house not yet finished, finds out that there are others (sometimes up to three - four) who had paid for exactly the same flat.

Pardon! You mean that they’ve all handed over money for the same property!

And as to building country houses... We have plenty of them. Some build the buildings themselves, others have them build, sometimes quite luxury wooden houses imported from Finland, sometimes - brick castles of immense cost... Sometimes our country houses are built too near lakes or rivers, and now these buildings are supposedly have to be demolished in order to preserve nature, but I doubt that it would be ever done...

I’ve seen my friends datcha near Odessa, but it was very small, no more than a large hut really.

But most of our country houses are just structures being erected in accordance with cash inflow: first year - the basement, second - walls and roof, third - internal finishing... Then - the owner starts to ajust some new parts to his house: glassed room for Summer tea drinking, then - a toilet, then - additional room... So after ten years or so you would be amazed at the result: some architect may even get a nervous breakdown having seen such a marvel of contemporary architecture...

In Britain, any such improvements to a house, have to be approved by the local council, like with the bypass at the start of THHGTTG, but this is to stop you building something really ugly that will offend your neighbours!

 

[Sergo]

...Not often you see Chechnya and stable in the same sentence…

But that's the truth - they really have the stable population grouth notwithstanding all the possible hardships they have there. That's another point in favour of an opinion that humans are very sturdy species.

We also have quite a lot of foreign students at any one time as well, the boarding school near my mothers house has hundreds of Chinese children. I suspect this is a combination of wanting to learn English and perhaps a good reputation of education because of the fame of Oxford & Cambridge, but you would know better about that than me.

Yep, it is thought here that to get educated in the UK means a good start in life. My wife has taken home designer's courses in London, and today, I believe, she will pay for our daughter courses.

In Britain, it is the thing you try to do as you go through life, to buy a house, we are much more of a nation of home-owners than say in France which has a similar standard of living but where it is more traditional to rent.

We are the same: it is said that a person has to build a house, plant a tree and raise a son to consider his life's reason fulfilled. So every Russian man tries to build at least one house in his life. Nevermind if it is only a small country hut with an outdoor toilet over a pit.

Pardon! You mean that they’ve all handed over money for the same property!

Yes, exactly: they were cheated. The same flats were sold to several owners, each of whom imagined he was the sole owner, of course. As the selling usually takes place when the building has not been completed yet (and sometimes has not been started even) there is plenty of time to sell one piece of property to several owners and get out in the hiding with all the money. Strangely, those businessmen are usually get killed in their hiding places, as our people tend to consider money losses quite seriously.

I’ve seen my friends datcha near Odessa, but it was very small, no more than a large hut really.

Yep, that's the usual case. My parents had something like that on 600 square meters of land 40 km away from Moscow...

In Britain, any such improvements to a house, have to be approved by the local council, like with the bypass at the start of THHGTTG, but this is to stop you building something really ugly that will offend your neighbours!

Ha. It is officially the same here: there are quite a lot of different regulations: how many meters should be between a forest and a house, how long between your house and the neighbour's, the region's architect's approval etc. But in practice about 90% of our "cottage owners" do not even know such regulations exist, and may learn about them only when they get to arrange documents for selling their property. And even then, if they have money to spend - that's not too easy to arrange almost everything. So to officially own a very ugly construction could cost you almost nothing for the materials & work, plus $50 - $100 for the bribe.

 

[Kenny Shovel]

Yep, it is thought here that to get educated in the UK means a good start in life.

In Britain there is a perception that exams are easier to pass at a high ‘A’ grade than used to be the case and a feeling that children don’t have as good a grounding in ‘the basics’ as before. However, I think you’d need to talk to a teacher to find out if that perception is accurate or not. This is all in the ordinary schools, the private schools were you pay (we call them public schools) and universities still seem to have as good a reputation as before. Our current government has put a lot of extra money into education; it is debated as to how effective that extra money has been. The long-term aim is for 50% of children to go onto university, however this may or may not be achieved as they are also introducing student loans for those attending university as well, which has proved to be a controversial decision.

My wife has taken home designer's courses in London,

That’s interesting, that will be why she has been to London twice and you only once. I assume she must have enjoyed herself, as she came back on holiday!

We are the same: it is said that a person has to build a house, plant a tree and raise a son to consider his life's reason fulfilled. So every Russian man tries to build at least one house in his life. Nevermind if it is only a small country hut with an outdoor toilet over a pit.

In England we say ‘An Englishman’s home is his castle’, but it’s rare for people to build their own house, although my father had planned to do this before he died.

Yes, exactly: they were cheated. The same flats were sold to several owners, each of whom imagined he was the sole owner, of course. As the selling usually takes place when the building has not been completed yet (and sometimes has not been started even)

I’m not totally sure of the legal position in Britain, but I suspect it is rare for more than a deposit to be placed on a property before it is built. Most houses here are built as part of new estates which are sold after completion. There have been hundreds of new houses built near my home over the last year or so, but then it is a good area, close to the railway station, for easy commute into London and also close to the local Wildlife park.

there is plenty of time to sell one piece of property to several owners and get out in the hiding with all the money. Strangely, those businessmen are usually get killed in their hiding places, as our people tend to consider money losses quite seriously.

In Russia there appears to be a kind of inner logic to everything, so that things seem to work in there own strange roundabout way. Of course that same description could be applied to anarchy or mental instability.

Yep, that's the usual case. My parents had something like that on 600 square meters of land 40 km away from Moscow...

We don’t have this idea of a datcha in Britain. I think the closest thing we have would be allotments. These are area of land used for growing crops supplied by the local council, they are designed for people with either no garden at home or who want to have more space to grow things. It’s a working-class thing really.

Ha. It is officially the same here: there are quite a lot of different regulations: how many meters should be between a forest and a house, how long between your house and the neighbour's, the region's architect's approval etc. But in practice about 90% of our "cottage owners" do not even know such regulations exist, and may learn about them only when they get to arrange documents for selling their property. And even then, if they have money to spend - that's not too easy to arrange almost everything. So to officially own a very ugly construction could cost you almost nothing for the materials & work, plus $50 - $100 for the bribe.

Well, if you tried that here, they’d probably get very offended you thought they were corrupt, particularly if you tried it with ‘funny yank money’!

BTW, I see you worked out how to use the quotes!

 

[Sergo]

In Britain there is a perception that exams are easier to pass at a high ‘A’ grade than used to be the case and a feeling that children don’t have as good a grounding in ‘the basics’ as before.

Ha. Everybody knows that everything had been much better before than it is now.

This is all in the ordinary schools, the private schools were you pay (we call them public schools) and universities still seem to have as good a reputation as before. Our current government has put a lot of extra money into education; it is debated as to how effective that extra money has been. The long-term aim is for 50% of children to go onto university, however this may or may not be achieved as they are also introducing student loans for those attending university as well, which has proved to be a controversial decision.

Our schools are mostly free. When I have tried to get my daughter into school she attends now (it has a good reputation as one of the best ordinary schools), they offered me to buy for the school two refrigerators - for a class of housekeeping and for the director's room. That's because I told them I could afford some donation (Strictly speaking, a donation like this is illegal). About a half pupils were admitted without any donation made by their parents. Parents can always arrange it with some of teachers for additional lessons for their children, that costs about $10 per hour. Sometimes a teacher make it known that it would be much easier to pass an exam if he/she is paid for some "private lessons".
Then, together we usually buy our teachers some presents - for some special holidays or birthdays. A present could cost from $50 to $300, so as there are about 30 pupils in a class - that is not to overwhelming for even the thinniest pockets.
And we pay wages for security officers, which are on duty in school. I think that all, but my wife would know better...
In our private schools an average monthly payment is $500. Some think private schools are good, others - that they are the same as free or even worse... I think that there are different private schools in Russia.

The same is the situation with the institutes. Most are free, but some of the most prestigious are private. And sometimes you could be legally admitted to an institute for money after you failed at admittance exams...

That’s interesting, that will be why she has been to London twice and you only once. I assume she must have enjoyed herself, as she came back on holiday!

Eh. Sure she liked it in the UK. And I liked it. We wanted to come for a long time before. (You know, I collect British coins, so that was a minor reason too.)
By the way, they never granted me visa to visit USA. I gave up after the third failure (that was more than 10 yers ago). I imagine that now, when I work for an American firm it would have been easier, but I do not try.

In England we say ‘An Englishman’s home is his castle’, but it’s rare for people to build their own house, although my father had planned to do this before he died.

I see. Alas, we are mostly quite poor - so to build one's own house is the only way to have one for most of us. And it is interesting for me - I spend a lot of time on different construction tasks on my dacha - I need that for a change from my office work. Though, of course, for a small part of the spent time I could earn enough money to have professional workers complete all the construction tasks on the dacha. I imagine that's foolish. But that's so.

I’m not totally sure of the legal position in Britain, but I suspect it is rare for more than a deposit to be placed on a property before it is built. Most houses here are built as part of new estates which are sold after completion. There have been hundreds of new houses built near my home over the last year or so, but then it is a good area, close to the railway station, for easy commute into London and also close to the local Wildlife park.

Our gov't just issued some law that flats could be sold only after the building is completed. I do not think that could change anything at all, as really we have quite a strange situation: there are always not enough flats for sale in Moscow, so people are ready to pay more and not be absolutely sure of the result. (But it is said that this situation is false: big realter companies tries to make the impression that new flats are in desperate need, while each year more and more flats in new houses are left unsold. But to make that known means that prices will fall down, and the realters cannot allow that.

Wow... You live near a Wildlife park... That must be great... I am very happy we live near real forest, though it is not very much impressive one...

In Russia there appears to be a kind of inner logic to everything, so that things seem to work in there own strange roundabout way. Of course that same description could be applied to anarchy or mental instability.

Yep. So it's difficult to advise us being in the West: the most logical thing, that most surely will solve the problem in the West may not be too useful in Russia.

We don’t have this idea of a datcha in Britain. I think the closest thing we have would be allotments. These are area of land used for growing crops supplied by the local council, they are designed for people with either no garden at home or who want to have more space to grow things. It’s a working-class thing really.

I see. It had been originally the same here: people were given 600 sq. meters of land near cities, on which they could build a small house and have a small garden. Other situation was only with the well-known writers, painters, party leaders etc., who were given larger pieces of land and were allowed to do what they wanted there (if a worker tried not to plant fruit trees and, say, potatoes on his 600 sq.m., but arrange a chinese garden there - they would have taken his dacha from him and give it to somebody else).
Now most pieces of land are 1500 sq.m (as mine) or bigger, and we can do what we wish on our dachas.

Well, if you tried that here, they’d probably get very offended you thought they were corrupt, particularly if you tried it with ‘funny yank money’!

I hope so. By the way, I like pounds better than dollars, but as dollars are much better to convert here, my money are in dollars.

BTW, I see you worked out how to use the quotes!

Yep, it seems I can learn after all, thank you.

 

[Kenny Shovel]

Ha. Everybody knows that everything had been much better before than it is now.

There is a quote which goes along the lines of ‘Young people today are badly behaved and do not respect their elders”, something like that, and that was said by Plato or Socrates (I forget which) about 2,500 years ago!

Our schools are mostly free.

Same here.

Parents can always arrange it with some of teachers for additional lessons for their children, that costs about $10 per hour. Sometimes a teacher makes it known that it would be much easier to pass an exam if he/she is paid for some "private lessons".

I think that some teachers supplement their income with private tuition, but I doubt they are allowed to do so for pupils at the school they work for.

Then, together we usually buy our teachers some presents - for some special holidays or birthdays. A present could cost from $50 to $300, so as there are about 30 pupils in a class - that is not to overwhelming for even the thinnest pockets.

My school days are long behind me now but I can only remember an exchange of Christmas cards with my teacher. In general teachers are not considered to be paid as well as they should be in Britain, but such extra income isn’t really necessary.

And we pay wages for security officers, which are on duty in school. I think that all, but my wife would know better...

Why the need for security officers?

In our private schools an average monthly payment is $500. Some think private schools are good, others - that they are the same as free or even worse... I think that there are different private schools in Russia.

Private schools cost differing amounts of money, depending on quality of school and if the child is living there. They tend to have a very good reputation and have quite a lot of foreign pupils, from the children of rich businessmen to Arabian princes etc. Some are very old and traditional, Eton for example costs £23,000 a year and was started in 1440. None of my family has ever attended!

The same is the situation with the institutes. Most are free, but some of the most prestigious are private. And sometimes you could be legally admitted to an institute for money after you failed at admittance exams...

Russian technical institutes in particular have a good reputation. In British universities you have to obtain a certain level of results from exams for take at 18, unless of course you are in the Royal family.
I used to know a girl who was an artist and she told me that when she started attending Art College she didn’t understand why one of the pupils in her class was a more mature student who wasn’t very good at drawing. A few days into her course someone pointed out that one of the other girls in the class was a minor member of the British Royal family, and the older unskilled artist was her police bodyguard!

We wanted to come for a long time before. (You know, I collect British coins, so that was a minor reason too.)

So you have pre-decimal currency as well? You know that coins from the different mints have different designs on them?

By the way, they never granted me visa to visit USA. I gave up after the third failure (that was more than 10 yers ago). I imagine that now, when I work for an American firm it would have been easier, but I do not try.

Perhaps it would be easier now but America like Britain is not easy to get to legally if you are not from a wealthy country.

big realter companies tries to make the impression that new flats are in desperate need, while each year more and more flats in new houses are left unsold. But to make that known means that prices will fall down, and the realters cannot allow that.

Most new houses in Britain are sold as soon as they are built, there are always organisations willing to lend large amounts of money and always it seems young people prepared to take on these large loans. I’m glad I bought before the prices started to increase so quickly.

Wow... You live near a Wildlife park... That must be great... I am very happy we live near real forest, though it is not very much impressive one...

It’s just a small woodland park, a wood where you can walk and take your dog or ride a horse, a couple of hills and a lake where you can fish.

it's difficult to advise us being in the West: the most logical thing, that most surely will solve the problem in the West may not be too useful in Russia.

I think you just have to except Russia for what it is if you visit; it is easy to see all the same kinds of shops in the centre of the big cities and think it is the same, but underneath it’s a completely different kettle of fish.

Now most pieces of land are 1500 sq.m (as mine) or bigger, and we can do what we wish on our dachas.

I am very neglectful of my garden, it doesn’t really interest me, but that makes me unusual in my family. One of my uncles was a professional gardener, he was the head gardener for an English Lord who has quite large grounds in his house with a lake etc (The Lord not my Uncle).

By the way, I like pounds better than dollars, but as dollars are much better to convert here, my money are in dollars.

Pretty much anywhere in Eastern Europe and dollars are just as good as local currency. But in Britain the exchange rate is poor, I had a few hundred dollars left from my travels and I held on to them waiting for the exchange rate to become for favourable. In the end I gave in and changed them back, but I may as well have used them to start the fire with for all the Pounds you get with them these days.

 

[Sergo]

There is a quote which goes along the lines of ‘Young people today are badly behaved and do not respect their elders”, something like that, and that was said by Plato or Socrates (I forget which) about 2,500 years ago!

Yep, I had that one in mind too. That means the elders are the same too - cannot ajust to fact that the younger are not much different from them, and sometimes even better...

My school days are long behind me now but I can only remember an exchange of Christmas cards with my teacher. In general teachers are not considered to be paid as well as they should be in Britain, but such extra income isn’t really necessary.

Yep, my days too... Though sometimes it is too difficult to believe... I cannot remember much in the way of presents from my school times. But now it seems to be a custom in our contemporary schools. (BTW, our teachers got their wages raised recently, so all in all their income is not worse than that of a skilled worker).

Why the need for security officers?

I am not really sure - maybe to see that no drug sell were possible in school, no stranges enter it - as I remember in my time it had been custom not to find money in the pockets of one's coat left in the school's cloakroom, or a shapka, or even a coat itself... They say we need security officers - OK, we pay for them.

Private schools cost differing amounts of money, depending on quality of school and if the child is living there. They tend to have a very good reputation and have quite a lot of foreign pupils, from the children of rich businessmen to Arabian princes etc. Some are very old and traditional, Eton for example costs £23,000 a year and was started in 1440. None of my family has ever attended!

Alas, we do not have such schools.

Russian technical institutes in particular have a good reputation.

Good to hear - I graduated from Moscow Civil Engineering Institute more than 20 years ago...

In British universities you have to obtain a certain level of results from exams for take at 18, unless of course you are in the Royal family.
I used to know a girl who was an artist and she told me that when she started attending Art College she didn’t understand why one of the pupils in her class was a more mature student who wasn’t very good at drawing. A few days into her course someone pointed out that one of the other girls in the class was a minor member of the British Royal family, and the older unskilled artist was her police bodyguard!

Wow, what an interesting story! One could have included it into something of literature... You know, I think of copying your posts to my hard disc for future references...

So you have pre-decimal currency as well? You know that coins from the different mints have different designs on them?

Yep, I have. You see, I am a collectioner from the age of 6 or so... One of my first 10 coins had been a silver shilling of 1926... (My other coins then were Russian, Finnish, Polish and German). And for the last 15 years or so I collect mostly British coins. (When I'd been to London, I've bought a "Gothic Crown" of Victoria. I think that is one of the prettiest coins in the world...)
I have even a coin I could not have exactly found in the Spink catalogue - a shilling of Carl. The problem is the mintmark is not too clear, and the design is different from all the examples in the Spink...
Are you by any chance interested in coins?

Perhaps it would be easier now but America like Britain is not easy to get to legally if you are not from a wealthy country.

I can understand that, but sometimes it seems that consulate people get their work as a chance for personal pleasure over not caring for other people interests.

Most new houses in Britain are sold as soon as they are built, there are always organisations willing to lend large amounts of money and always it seems young people prepared to take on these large loans. I’m glad I bought before the prices started to increase so quickly.

Until this year our new flats gained 15% in cost every year. Everybody expected that once upon a time the prices will drop if not crash down drastically, but so far it seems the rise is only slowed down some.

It’s just a small woodland park, a wood where you can walk and take your dog or ride a horse, a couple of hills and a lake where you can fish.

I see. We have a very small river in our forest, and it is not very tidy really - I pay some guys to clear the region immediately near my dacha every Spring, but next Spring there are more things to remove than it had been the previous year, it seems...

but I think you just have to except Russia for what it is if you visit; it is easy to see all the same kinds of shops in the centre of the big cities and think it is the same, but underneath it’s a completely different kettle of fish.

Exactly.

I am very neglectful of my garden, it doesn’t really interest me, but that makes me unusual in my family. One of my uncles was a professional gardener, he was the head gardener for an English Lord who has quite large grounds in his house with a lake etc (The Lord not my Uncle).

Ah. And I like our small garden very much. Not to get any harvest from it, as it was the custom in Russia only several years ago, but just to see as my pines, oaks, boxwoods etc. grow...

Pretty much anywhere in Eastern Europe and dollars are just as good as local currency. But in Britain the exchange rate is poor, I had a few hundred dollars left from my travels and I held on to them waiting for the exchange rate to become for favourable. In the end I gave in and changed them back, but I may as well have used them to start the fire with for all the Pounds you get with them these days.

I see. And it is much cheeper to exchange Roubles into Dollars and back again if needed, than into any other currency... And I think the dollar is much more stable than the euro. Of course it was very stable declining for a year or so, but just the same... When I need to buy pounds - that means to call several exchanging offices, just to get 5000 - 6000 pounds...
And, of course, my customers pay me in Dollars...

 

[Kenny Shovel]

Yep, I had that one in mind too. That means the elders are the same too…

I would say it is an example of the French saying ‘Plus ca change, plus c’est la meme chose’ – The more things change, the more they are the same. Another proverb for you, I believe Russians like them.

… our teachers got their wages raised recently, so all in all their income is not worse than that of a skilled worker…

I think whichever country you live in, the perception is that teachers and nurses tend to be paid less than they are worth. Part of that is societies, correct, belief that what they do is so important; the same logic applies in reverse to lawyers.

They say we need security officers - OK, we pay for them.

Americans seem to operate a system were the children bring guns to school for protection, I must remember to ask how that’s working out for them…

Alas, we do not have such schools.

They have sometimes been controversial as they are accused of being elitist and providing a better education of the children of the rich; there was a time when some left-wing politicians wanted to ban them in some way! How anyone thought this would work is beyond me; unless you have a totalitarian society then the rich will always have more choices and opportunities than the poor. No, it’s not fair, but the alternative is for everything to be controlled!

Wow, what an interesting story! One could have included it into something of literature... You know, I think of copying your posts to my hard disc for future references...

File it under ‘Englishman talking crap’…

Are you by any chance interested in coins?

Only in spending them. My father had a small collection of them, as well as British military badges, but my mother gave them all away to a charity when I was young. I think she saved a couple of silver sovereigns for me, although they are still at my mothers’ house.
Why are British coins of particular interest then? I can understand the popularity of British stamps as, I think with the penny black, we had the first ones, but I wouldn’t think the same can be said of coins, after all, ancient civilisations like the Romans had them.

I can understand that, but sometimes it seems that consulate people get their work as a chance for personal pleasure over not caring for other people interests.

Don’t get me started on consulate staff! They make me ashamed to be British, bunch of arrogant bastards the lot of them!

Until this year our new flats gained 15% in cost every year. Everybody expected that once upon a time the prices will drop if not crash down drastically, but so far it seems the rise is only slowed down some.

That sounds similar to what has happened in Britain. Prices were rising 20% or more at one point but have now slowed to half of that or less.

Ah. And I like our small garden very much. Not to get any harvest from it, as it was the custom in Russia only several years ago, but just to see as my pines, oaks, boxwoods etc. grow...

My mothers’ garden is perfect; every blade of grass is the correct height and a vivid green colour, every flower has beautiful bright blooms. It’s like a picture postcard of an English country garden; of course she gets cuttings from all the expensive exotic plants that my Uncle plants in the estate of the Lord he worked for.

I see. And it is much cheaper to exchange Roubles into Dollars and back again if needed, than into any other currency...

That’s why I say that anywhere in Eastern Europe dollars is the currency to have, as all exchange booths seem to be based around them. Although in some of the big cities now you can just get your money from ATM machines.

 

[Sergo]

I would say it is an example of the French saying ‘Plus ca change, plus c’est la meme chose’ – The more things change, the more they are the same. Another proverb for you, I believe Russians like them.

Yes, we do - we have books of them. Alas, I do not know French. It seems many people in England do know it...

I think whichever country you live in, the perception is that teachers and nurses tend to be paid less than they are worth. Part of that is societies, correct, belief that what they do is so important; the same logic applies in reverse to lawyers.

Our people seemed to believe that the only labour that should be paid well was hard hand labour, what the "Men's Power" is about. And, for example, engineers were considered by the workers as unneeded addition at the construction sites, good only for finding enough money to pay workers, and arranging hot meals etc. After all, we were a country of "the ruling labour class" back then. I am not sure what they think at the construction sites now, but I believe that any worker trying to explain to en engineer that he is no good - will be fired on the spot.

Americans seem to operate a system were the children bring guns to school for protection, I must remember to ask how that’s working out for them…

I do not think that wise, as children couldn't be expected to make the right decision in most cases. Why, that's not every adult is capable of! And to place a weapon in hand of a person who may easily overestimate a situation could be most harmful, to this person even.

Why are British coins of particular interest then? I can understand the popularity of British stamps as, I think with the penny black, we had the first ones, but I wouldn’t think the same can be said of coins, after all, ancient civilisations like the Romans had them.

Why? I do not know. Somehow I had decided that. You know, I do not much believe in reasonable thinking as the best way to lead ones personal life. My stepfather gave up collecting coins after he had seen some collection in one of German castles - there were so many perfect coins from different German states, that he decided it impossible to get anything even slightly resembling that collection, so it seemed foolish to keep at it for him. That's beyond me - I never had ambitions to get everything the best, so I am quite content with an idea that my collection is tiny and hardly of interest to anybody except myself.

I have some Roman and other Ancient coins, but I buy the coins I like, without any plan or reasoning.

Don’t get me started on consulate staff! They make me ashamed to be British, bunch of arrogant bastards the lot of them!

My mothers’ garden is perfect; every blade of grass is the correct height and a vivid green colour, every flower has beautiful bright blooms. It’s like a picture postcard of an English country garden; of course she gets cuttings from all the expensive exotic plants that my Uncle plants in the estate of the Lord he worked for.

Wow. That's great. Too bad I will never see it. But your climate is much warmer than what we have here, so to make as good a garden near Moscow is impossible: each Spring I have something dead from the Winter cold, or broken because of snow, or rotten, because under snow there is not good ventilation, if one uses something in order to insulate against cold...

Yesterday they shut down the hot water in our Moscow flat, so for 20 days we will have only cold water. That's the annual fenomena. So we will try to live mostly in our dacha, where the hot water depends mostly on electricity and our Ariston boiler.

 

[Kenny Shovel]

Alas, I do not know French. It seems many people in England do know it...

Actually British people don’t tend to be very good at learning languages, we don’t really need to be I suppose. Having said that quite a few words and phrases have been incorporated into the English language over the years.

Our people seemed to believe that the only labour that should be paid well was hard hand labour, what the "Men's Power" is about. And, for example, engineers were considered by the workers as unneeded addition at the construction sites, good only for finding enough money to pay workers, and arranging hot meals etc. After all, we were a country of "the ruling labour class" back then. I am not sure what they think at the construction sites now, but I believe that any worker trying to explain to en engineer that he is no good - will be fired on the spot.

Interesting, a culture that lacks respect for skilled non-manual labour doesn’t sound very healthy for future economic growth to me!
Britain has seen quite a swing from manufacturing industry to service industries in the last 20-25 years, and quite a painful change it has been in many ways. I know that in the North of England, were I originally come from, there used to be a traditional view that something was not ‘mans work’ unless you got dirt under your fingernails. Many of the jobs that used to conform to that image, like coal mining, are now all but gone.

I do not think that wise, as children couldn't be expected to make the right decision in most cases.

I was joking about that Sergo, I was joking!

…I buy the coins I like, without any plan or reasoning.

I think that indicates you are interested in the coins themselves rather than the process of collecting.

… your climate is much warmer than what we have here…

Not often a Brit is told that!

Yesterday they shut down the hot water in our Moscow flat, so for 20 days we will have only cold water. That's the annual fenomena…

Fenomena??? Is this like in Odessa were they only have hot water available during the six months around Winter?

 

[bethm]

Hi to everyone in Russia!

One of the main reasons I joined this site is because I fell in love with Russian literature at an early age...

I have just come back from Russia after saving up for five years and it was the most wonderful holiday I have ever had!

Beth
(East Yorkshire, England)