• Welcome to BookAndReader!

    We LOVE books and hope you'll join us in sharing your favorites and experiences along with your love of reading with our community. Registering for our site is free and easy, just CLICK HERE!

    Already a member and forgot your password? Click here.

marijuana????

RaVeN said:
Novella, I have the highest respect for you (no pun intended) and see your point in 99% of your posts. This falls in that 1% category.

I'm not going to pretend that I have all of the answers. I don't. But it seems to me that the decriminalization, at least, would save untold tax dollars in the court system, law enforcement, and prisons. Combine that with the creation of new jobs and of course, government taxing, the US would have the chance to pull itself out of debt.

On a more personal level, Mrs Jones down the street would'nt have to spend a year in prison and give up the custody of her two children because she was caught smoking a joint after a stressful 12 hour shift at the nurse's station. Not to mention the joy of being ostracized by the community for doing something that's moraly justifiable.

They say that one of the long term effects of smoking pot is paranoia. I wonder why?


RaVeN

Well, I think there are two issues here that are getting conflated: decriminalization; and legalization for medical use. General legalization is not on the table, to my knowledge, but if that's what Moto is referring to, then that is outside the present realm of possibilities.

Decriminalization, IMO, has no downside. People should not face jailtime for pot, period. Pot has been decriminalized in NY State already, in small quantities. Dealers and growers still face time.

Legalization for medical use is another matter entirely. I give you Canada's current system for legal medical use:

In July 2001, Health Canada implemented the Marijuana Medical Access Regulations, which provided for access to marijuana for medical purposes. The Regulations allows people to access to marijuana who are suffering from grave and debilitating illnesses. However, while permitting marijuana's medical use, the Regulations do not legalize the drug for general use.


The Regulations contain two main components: (1) authorizations to possess marijuana and (2) licences to produce marijuana.

Authorization to Possess Marijuana – Applicants must provide a medical declaration that states that all conventional treatments have been reasonably tried or considered, and that the benefits of using marijuana outweigh the risks. The Regulations describe three categories of individuals who can apply to possess marijuana for medical purposes: (1) persons who have a terminal illness and who are expected to pass away within 12 months, (2) persons who suffer from specific symptoms associated with medical conditions such as multiple sclerosis, spinal cord injury, spinal cord disease, cancer, AIDS/HIV infection, severe arthritis and epilepsy, and (3) persons who have symptoms associated with a serious medical condition or conditions, other than those described in categories (1) and (2).

Licences to Produce Marijuana – In December 2000, Health Canada contracted Prairie Plant Systems Inc. to cultivate and produce a safe, standardized, homogeneous supply of marijuana.


On the surface, this looks cool. In practice, the gov't wants to restrict use to the pot grown under license, which--anecdotally as reported in the NY Times and elsewhere this year--is completely unsatisfactory (tastes bad, is weak, gives a headache, etc.)


Further, the discussion in America that has gained the most traction is about licensing pharmas to produce THC pills, so that marijuana itself would remain illegal. This is the obvious route by which big business will co-opt the legalization for profit.

My money is on the US gov't licensing pill production and leaving actual weed where it is. This could lead to a gradual evolution in how people view pot, but I think it is more likely that cancer and AIDS patients will be able to get prescribed pills from their doctors, much the way they get morphine or oxycontin, but the rest of society will be subjected to the status quo.

In short, nobody will gain any rights or freedoms re pot, except the pharmas who will control the chemical production. This will put yet another drug on the market to be abused. But because it is potentially a huge profit opportunity for business, it will probably happen and I'm sure is being actively lobbied for and researched right now.
 
Apparently, the majority of people here have tried it or are really open minded. I think the real reason it isn't legal is just propaganda. A lot of people don't know any better, and they believe whatever they're told. The "gateway drug" label the US gov't has put on it is not helping. I don't think there is a "gateway drug". I do believe there are "gateway social groups." Monkey see, monkey do. Even then, trying stuff IMO is really okay. It's just that some substances, circumstances and personalities mix tragically to create addictions. This was the case with my brother and alcohol at the time of his best friend's death. You've got a drug, an addictive personality and a situation where a person was very vulnerable. When you add those together, you get the equation for addiction. Of course, we all have our vices, whether it's chemical or behavioral.
 
i struggle with what to tell my kids as they age and drugs become an issue. we have both experimented and if a pinner were passed around at a party, i'm sure we would both partake.
alcohol being legal, seems perhaps easier to deal with as we can give the pat answer of wait till you are legal( i know i am WAY way oversimplifying that) but my point being, i personally think mj should be legal, but it's not. so saying yes to it when you are older makes it a moral issue for me. i guess what i am trying to get at is when teaching our kids about alcohol, we can talk to them about social drinking and drinking responsibly with out worrying about the legality of it, it is legal to drink when you are 19 here. but when mj comes up, saying that we condone it is saying we think it is ok to break the law......? i'm making a mess of this, but if anyone knows what i am saying and can make better sense of it go for it.
please don't think that i am making light of young people drinking, i was just trying to get to my point, which, well i'm not sure i made very well. sigh.
 
we're addicticted kids, 10 million strong ... and growing.

1749.bmp
 
RitalinKid said:
Apparently, the majority of people here have tried it or are really open minded. I think the real reason it isn't legal is just propaganda. A lot of people don't know any better, and they believe whatever they're told. The "gateway drug" label the US gov't has put on it is not helping. I don't think there is a "gateway drug". I do believe there are "gateway social groups." Monkey see, monkey do. Even then, trying stuff IMO is really okay.

I think this is the reason for the gateway drug label. The threshold for trying marijuana is very low, but to do so you have to get in touch with certain groups of people. Once you start hanging out with those the threshold for trying other drugs are lowered.
 
Yeah, Zolipara, I agree. It's just that all the people I know don't really push anything else (maybe some shrooms, occasionally pharmies), but I think there are some groups that may push people toward a lot more. I don't know. I can only speak from my experiences. The guy that I know that had to go to rehab and jail got involved with a guy cooking meth, and the meth scene is really shady.

In MJ's defense, it has to be the safest recreational chemical. You can OD on alchohol and just about anything else; no one is known to have ODed on vitamin THC.

Jenn, I would encourage them to stay away until they're at least of college age, but I understand you can't tell them everything about how you feel because they'll go tell their friends. Then their friends' parents will find out. Then there'll be a PTA meeting...blah blah blah. Then, you also don't want them to think it's okay just to get high all the time or learn that getting high is the only way to have fun. It's tough.

If I have kids, I don't know what I'm going to tell them about drugs or religion. I don't hold the accepted beliefs on either one. Maybe the answer for me is not to have kids. I like my quiet time too much anyway.
 
Weed, the most over-rated, over-hyped thing on the planet. Lets face it, its actually the most nerdy, geeky, dirty, crappy little pasttime you can have, sort of like smoking a pipe or chewing tobacco, or at least it would be if it was'nt for one thing; it's illegal. Its illegality has given it a sad and unwarranted 'trendiness' that has fad following conformists reaching for the cigarrette papers or annoying 24 hour petrol station cashiers.

This illegality is the only factor that gives it any credibility or kudos, and weaves a facade around it that deceives gullible fools into thinking it will give them the same. These are generally ageing hippies, fat guys with goatee beards and baseball caps who desperately need to try and buy into the 'in' crowd, or losers who's lives are so pointless that its the only thing left that gives them any enjoyment. Most sensible people have a brief flirtation with it before realising its nothing much to talk about.
 
spatha said:
Weed, the most over-rated, over-hyped thing on the planet. Lets face it, its actually the most nerdy, geeky, dirty, crappy little pasttime you can have, sort of like smoking a pipe or chewing tobacco, or at least it would be if it was'nt for one thing; it's illegal. Its illegality has given it a sad and unwarranted 'trendiness' that has fad following conformists reaching for the cigarrette papers or annoying 24 hour petrol station cashiers.

This illegality is the only factor that gives it any credibility or kudos, and weaves a facade around it that deceives gullible fools into thinking it will give them the same. These are generally ageing hippies, fat guys with goatee beards and baseball caps who desperately need to try and buy into the 'in' crowd, or losers who's lives are so pointless that its the only thing left that gives them any enjoyment. Most sensible people have a brief flirtation with it before realising its nothing much to talk about.

The legality debate, for my part, is focused on the legitimacy of a medical application for cancer patients and AIDS sufferers. Many US doctors endorse its use for easing pain and boosting appetite. At present many advise their patients to buy pot illegally on the street. Perhaps there is a different situation in the UK?

This is not an endorsement of recreational pot smoking. I personally don't think having the right to get stoned is very important, but having legal access to anything that would help a cancer or AIDS patient is extremely important.
 
"This illegality is the only factor that gives it any credibility or kudos..."

Very nice Spatha. A twist I had not really given much thought to. I think I have to agree completely.

But if you make pot legal, does that mean the "cool", illegal drug of choice gets notched up to cocaine or speed or lsd...???
 
I see where you're coming from Spatha. When I first tried it, I thought it was the greatest thing ever. Now, it's just something I like to do every once in while. However, I don't think your stereotypes would hold up at all. I know people from all walks of life (preachers, extremely successful business people, coaches, hippies, athletes, etc.) that use it. Saying that all people who use it are "gullible fools" who only use it to be cool (I read credibility to be coolness) is a little off the mark. Where I live, you don't want anyone to know you use it. How could using it make you cool? I mean, the stereotypes you just laid out are part of what makes it not cool around here; people just don't realize that anybody can enjoy it, not just criminals and old hippies.

It's just a mild hallucinogenic; it makes colors a little brighter, lightens your mood, and makes sound stand out. You're right; it's just like smoking a tobacco pipe or drinking a beer or glass of wine at the end of the day when you get home. So, why is it illegal? I can destroy my liver everyday of my life with alcohol or smoke my lungs away with tobacco. What's wrong with using a different substance destroy my lungs? Moreover, if you're completely right and mj's coolness comes from being illegal, then fewer high school kids will be trying it once it's legalized. Some evidence exists to prove that point. The teen usage rates in Amsterdam, where it has limited legality, are lower than here in the US where it's completely illegal (unless your arresting officer happens to smoke).

Even if it were legal, I'd still do it at MOST once a week. That's less than a lot of people drink alcohol. However, I do have friends that have daily sessions. In case you haven't noticed, I'm all for legalization because I'm tired of people having to go to jail, pay fines or get fired for something that should be legal, not just for cancer patients' access. The Libertarian Party (US) and the MPP have plenty of information if anyone would like to read more about it.
 
RitalinKid said:
The teen usage rates in Amsterdam, where it has limited legality, are lower than here in the US where it's completely illegal (unless your arresting officer happens to smoke).
If i'm not mistaken they have lower amounts of people using other drugs as well and a very low amount of OD's a year.

Looks like it looses some of its value as a "gateway drug" if its legal. And i think most people have a much higher threshold for trying heroin, cocaine etc.
 
spatha said:
These are generally ageing hippies, fat guys with goatee beards and baseball caps who desperately need to try and buy into the 'in' crowd, or losers who's lives are so pointless that its the only thing left that gives them any enjoyment. Most sensible people have a brief flirtation with it before realising its nothing much to talk about.
do fat hippies and losers make spatha a sad boy?

I have a shampoo recommendation for you:

2846.bmp
 
i think it should be legal, too!! it's doesn't matter anyway, if you want that stuff you can get it, if not you keep your hands away!! honestly what's the big deal?? make it legal, all of it!!
 
bobbyburns said:
do fat hippies and losers make spatha a sad boy?

Sorry bobby, dont take my comments personally, they were'nt aimed at you no matter how much you may see yourself in them. :D
 
don't apologize, just come out and say it, you dipshit.

I'm a loser and I hate myself, you're right, but that has nothing to do with the fact that I smoke weed.
 
bobbyburns said:
don't apologize, just come out and say it, you dipshit.

I'm a loser and I hate myself, you're right, but that has nothing to do with the fact that I smoke weed.

Whoa there, stow the self hate stuff away, I did'nt mean to make you cry.

Okay Bobby, if my objective opinions have somehow offended you enough to make you post sly little digs at me, then make you angry and upset when I respond in kind and you find you cant handle it being given back, then I sincerely apologise.

Take it easy m8 :)
 
it's alright. I'll learn to live with it. I, too, used to think apologizing in a smug-sounding way was cool. then I turned 12.
 
(Yawn) I really can't be bothered struggling with your issues bobby, just take the apology and lets end this boring tit for tat crap.
 
Back
Top