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Name a "Mainstream BlockBuster" you actually like!

There was an artical I posted somewhere with statistics about the literacy level of adults in America. There's an astounding percentage of adults that are "functionally illiterate". And then when you figure in the adults with just the basic ability to read things like menus, and street signs you are around 50% of all adults. So when a book, any book, sells in the 100's of millions of copies I think it's a step in the right direction, more than in the wrong direction.

While you may like to see huge portions of people reading from a vast array of literay pieces of art, I think the plain truth is it's never going to happen.
Catch-22, or The Life Of Pi are not destined to be in every home in America.

Be happy that people are picking up a book and reading.
No matter what it is.

edit: quoted from website : National Institute for Literacy

"How literate is the adult population?
Very few adults in the US are truly illiterate. Rather, there are many adults with low literacy skills who lack the foundation they need to find and keep decent jobs, support their children's education, and participate actively in civic life. Between 21 and 23 percent of the adult population, or approximately 44 million people, according to the National Adult Literacy Survey (NALS), scored in Level 1 (see description above). Another 25-28 percent of the adult population, or between 45 and 50 million people, scored in Level 2. Literacy experts believe that adults with skills at Levels 1 and 2 lack a sufficient foundation of basic skills to function successfully in our society."
 
Motokid said:
There's an astounding percentage of adultBe happy that people are picking up a book and reading. No matter what it is.
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But then, as you've seen, people can be influenced to write books based on what they've read. Is this a downward spiral to even worse depths of blockbuster fiction?
 
To be blockbuster you have to appeal to the masses, and if half the entire adult population of the USA is barely able to read a menu, or a street sign I'm not sure you'll ever have T.S. Elliott be a part of the backyard fence discussion with your neighbor.

To improve the level of the best seller, you first have to improve the level of education of the masses.

Any ideas on how to do that?
 
Intensive phonics lessons from an early age. The kids enjoy the repetition.

Look, a picture of the letter M. Say it: Em, mmmmmmmmmm, Em, mmmmmmmm, Em, mmmmmmm, Em, mmmmmmmmmmm, Em, mmmmmmmmmm and so on...

It drums in the letters and the sound it should make.
 
"But then, as you've seen, people can be influenced to write books based on what they've read. Is this a downward spiral to even worse depths of blockbuster fiction?"

Yes, but there are also incredibly bright and intelligent people that are writing books too, and as long as any book proves that people still want to read, there's always hope that great writings and story's will be published by somebody.

Kind of the theory behind the only bad press is no press.

Would you rather people are talking about the newest Paris Hilton TV ad, or The Da Vinci Code? Because at least by having the discusion around The Da Vinci Code it's possible to express the fact that there are plenty of other "good" books that could be read too.
 
Kook, well argued and I pretty much see things you do.

Shade, like I said earlier, I believe nobody is disputing that some books are better written than others. My beef is the fact that there isn't a good yardstick by which a person can judge if a work is 'good' or, as you put it, shitlit. Who is your arbiter of high-literature? Who decides, if not the person who reads it? All the discussion that has taken place since my last post is all well and good, and but nothing's been mentioned about the measure by which all books are judged, except for it being dependent on our reading maturity. Which is of course, subjective.

I've a cousin-in-law who loves Dan Brown. She's in her early twenties, intelligent girl, hasn't read anything recently, but was in a flurry of excitement after reading the Da Vinci's Code. It was a joy and revelation to see such excitement. She kept asking me questions, and asked me what else she could read in the same vein. Being an avid reader myself, I was very happy to see her so animated. For the work that has opened this up in her to be labeled as shitlit doesn't seem entirely accurate, in my opinion.

This discussion reminds me of a conversation I had before with a friend of mine about music, where he said he wouldn't listen to Bon Jovi because it's "too commercial." What he's saying is he wouldn't give the band a chance because of it's commercial success, without consideration of its merits at all. Why does a band, or a book, gets categorically stigmatized due to it's performance in the market, without an honest evaluation of its merit? If you listen to Bon Jovi and hate it, fine. If everything that you happen to listen to and hate also happens to do well commercially, that fine too. But saying that everything that does well commercially sucks, and being a waste of time is something I don't think agree with.

This isn't chocolates, this isn't motorcycles, but something that mirrors the book scenario that's the basis of our discussion here.

ds
 
Hi again direstraits and Motokid, I don't want you to think I'm ignoring your posts. However I don't intend to respond to them in detail as I think all the issues on this topic have been gone over several times already in the course of the thread.
 
direstraits said:
This discussion reminds me of a conversation I had before with a friend of mine about music, where he said he wouldn't listen to Bon Jovi because it's "too commercial." What he's saying is he wouldn't give the band a chance because of it's commercial success, without consideration of its merits at all. Why does a band, or a book, gets categorically stigmatized due to it's performance in the market, without an honest evaluation of its merit? If you listen to Bon Jovi and hate it, fine. If everything that you happen to listen to and hate also happens to do well commercially, that fine too. But saying that everything that does well commercially sucks, and being a waste of time is something I don't think agree with.
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I think you misunderstand what he means by disliking commercial music. A lot of music is tailormade to sell. That music generally fits into its own genre and there is few if any commercial bands that have a distinct sound. I think your friend dislikes it because commercial bands sound so similar its hard to tell them apart. They just make music that fits a certain success formula rather than try to make good music. So its the sound, not the fact that they sell well that makes him dislike it. At least thats how i would use the term commercial.

A good example is Alanis Morisette. After the success of her album "Jagged little pill" a whole horde of "angry female" artists just like her appeared with songs sounding almost the same. They fit into the same concept. Instead of just trying to make good music they try to make a copy of something that sold before. You see the same trend in movies and books. After the success of the Davinci code there is a whole horde of Davinci copies on the market.

As for the original topic: I read everything from James Joyce to Dan Brown. I dont always feel like reading "Literature" and it can be nice to read simpler genre books like sci-fi or crime. But Dan Brown is just a crap writer regardless. There are many genre books that i like, but i'm not sure if they can be characterized as blockbusters. Perhaps Stephen King, his books usually sell well and i like some of his books.
 
Zolipara said:
A good example is Alanis Morisette. After the success of her album "Jagged little pill" a whole horde of "angry female" artists just like her appeared with songs sounding almost the same.
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Unfortunately, I can't help but feel that the volume of "angry female" albums made by Ani DiFranco were an influence on Alanis. Sometimes Alanis sounds almost exactly like Ani.

As for the original topic: I read everything from James Joyce to Dan Brown. I dont always feel like reading "Literature" and it can be nice to read simpler genre books like sci-fi or crime. But Dan Brown is just a crap writer regardless. There are many genre books that i like, but i'm not sure if they can be characterized as blockbusters. Perhaps Stephen King, his books usually sell well and i like some of his books.
Click to expand...

Ditto.
 
Stewart said:
Unfortunately, I can't help but feel that the volume of "angry female" albums made by Ani DiFranco were an influence on Alanis. Sometimes Alanis sounds almost exactly like Ani.
Click to expand...
You are probably right, i just noticed the horde after Alanis. I've never listened to Ani DiFranco. She wasnt as popular as Alanis was she? I felt it was the popularity of Alanis that triggered the landslide, not that she necessarily was the first "angry female".
 
Shade said:
Hi again direstraits and Motokid, I don't want you to think I'm ignoring your posts. However I don't intend to respond to them in detail as I think all the issues on this topic have been gone over several times already in the course of the thread.
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I think that's a fair call - we have been over this a fair bit and seem to have come to some conclusions. I'm willing to call a truce, certainly.

I think the comparison to "commercial music" is a fair one as it is somewhat similar in many ways. Particularly when a very good band also becomes successful in a commercial sense. Many people will brand them as 'selling out' to the masses or whatever. I think the same has been said about many very good authors. There will always be people who feel the need to only support non-appreciated music and literature. They like to feel like they are discovering something new. That's fine. Just don't critisise me for listening and singing along to Bon Jovi! (Oh, and crap Bon Jovi does exist - the live 'Crush' album stinks like a mouldy tomato in the sun. The sound quality is just appalling).
 
Stewart said:
Unfortunately, I can't help but feel that the volume of "angry female" albums made by Ani DiFranco were an influence on Alanis. Sometimes Alanis sounds almost exactly like Ani.
Click to expand...

It is entirely possible... Not a fan of 'Ani' at all, just because so many people go ON and ON and ON about her, and I've heard so many bad guitarists try to cover her Untouchable Face and sing it in exactly the same style with put on American accents. Urghhhh! I think they just like saying the 'F' word. Absolutely nothing against her at all, it's her followers that drive me crazy.
 
Kookamoor said:
It is entirely possible... Not a fan of 'Ani' at all, just because so many people go ON and ON and ON about her, and I've heard so many bad guitarists try to cover her Untouchable Face and sing it in exactly the same style with put on American accents. Urghhhh! I think they just like saying the 'F' word. Absolutely nothing against her at all, it's her followers that drive me crazy.
Click to expand...

That's the song. I couldn't remember the title of it. :D
 
Thanks for your comments, Zolipara.

Zolipara said:
I think your friend dislikes it because commercial bands sound so similar its hard to tell them apart. They just make music that fits a certain success formula rather than try to make good music. So its the sound, not the fact that they sell well that makes him dislike it.
Click to expand...
Which, of course, implies that nothing, neither books nor music, that hovers at the top of the charts can be new and fresh and probably doesn't deserve to be listened to/read at their own merits.

Anyway, I know what you're trying to say, Zolipara, and I understand the core arguments from both fronts at its fundamental level. I'm simply stating that not everything should be marginalized (read: "blockbuster") just because they perform well, and after all that's been said about good or bad books, nobody can authoritatively say exactly where the line is drawn.

ds
 
No you are making a logical error in your argument.

Even if a lot of music is made just to sell, it doesnt mean that all music that sells well is bad.
 
Zolipara said:
No you are making a logical error in your argument.

Even if a lot of music is made just to sell, it doesnt mean that all music that sells well is bad.
Click to expand...

I think there is a conception made by some people that anything that sells well or appeals to a mass audience is 'commercial' and by default must be generic. In music there is often a 'hook' that appeals to many people and is frequently used in popular music. Look at a lot of the rappers who've had success, for example. They mumble through the verses, but it is the chorus, which usually features some hook often from a sample, which is what makes that music appeal to a mass audience. Of course, there are rap fans who appreciate the verses, but I would suggest that is a smaller group. The reason *why* that hook appeals to so many is something I cannot explain, but I'm sure there is a mathematical reason why we find that collection of sounds appealing.

To apply this same context to a novel, there are some stories that appeal to a broad cross-section of the populace. Often this appeal is based upon culture, I would say. Clearly, the plot within The da Vinci Code is one such story. The fact that it has also had enourmous media exposure must not be ignored either - in fact it is similar to a radio station which has the rap song on high rotation. The way in which the story is conveyed (which many of you have pointed out is poorly done) is the rapping mumble that the majority of people choose not to pay attention to, it is the story which is the 'hook' and which draws people in. In some cases, a book may be both well written and have a good plot, and still engender a large audience as many people will be drawn in by only the story.

It is simply a shame that commercial success can draw away from the quality of a product and generate what is sometimes unfair critisism from those who would prefer to be more unique in their tastes. That's not a statement directed at anyone on this forum, but is based upon the too oft-heard exclamation of 'I was into them before they were popular' and 'They sold out when they became popular'. It's 'cool' to be different, didn't you know?
 
stop pretending like you believe it's because of the mainstream media. everybody knows you'd have to have the brain of a piece of broccoli to enjoy that book.
 
How nice of you to discard 8 pages of discussion, disregard everything that has been said, to make that rather idiotic statement.

Cheers
 
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