national identity

[Wabbit]

It keeps coming back to pride. But pride in what? As I said, it's just dirt. Same sky. Same stars. Live, eat, love, laugh, cry, and die. Proud to be Canadian instead of American, or British? It's all the same! We are all one people. The only reasons to Divide us up into little groups is the political, economical, and social. Pride has little to do with anything

Regarding me! lol

You are sort of right, but it has nothing to do with our discussion I simply hate labels. Everybody loves the simple answer. The reason I don't normally give information about myself is not because I don't like to be pigeon holed but because I am a private person. I don't feel the need, or want, to share my private information on a public discussion board. Mainly because it has nothing to do with what I write or what I write about. Knowing that I work in a warehouse tells you nothing about me and certainly has no importance on the discussion of books or national identify. For me, it's simply not important. If you, or anybody else, is really that interested then PM or email me. Get to know me personally and I will tell you everything you want to know.

Anyway, a wabbit gotta be enigmatic. It's part of the cool

 

[Wabbit]

You say there are other influences like money, education and genetics, and that's true. However, it's also true that those factors are sometimes also closely linked with nationality. I'm pretty sure the education you got is very different from the one I got. But you're right... If you look at the bigger picture, Britain and Belgium aren't so very different. None of the Western countries really are. But what about Britain and Japan? Belgium and Thailand? France and Peru? Those are pretty big differences if you ask me.

True, those places are very different cultures and would have a great affect on how I view the world. I still maintain they are not, fundamentally, so different. We all have the same fears, wants, and needs. The human condition is universal. I guess that is where we disagree

 

[lies]

it keeps coming back to pride.

I don't think it's really about pride. I think it's about familiarity more than anything. It's because you know your country so well (better than a "foreigner" at least) that you can talk about it... Some people have positive things to say about where they live, others negative.

 

[jenn]

It keeps coming back to pride. But pride in what? ....................
Anyway, a wabbit gotta be enigmatic. It's part of the cool

exactly. i am not interested in the pride part at all.that is why i am confused people keep bringing up pride or patriotism. it was never a question of pride in ones nationality, but whether national identity was of importance to you or your fellow countrymen.




and i can respect that about being enigmatic. i have no mystery. it is one of my wishes to be more enigmatic, but i fail miserably. but that is me.
i always find your contributions interesting.

 

[novella]

I take SillyWabbit's (welcome back, bun) point about London/Liverpool and regionality, which jenn also mentioned earlier.

And Moto mentioned re Texas and NY.

I think regionality is more powerful as an identity. My Spanish friend identifies himself has half-Navarran, half-Basque, not as Spanish. Someone from Cornwall with always say they're from Cornwall, not England.

In America you also have the complication of your origins and ethnic heritage. Some people disown it, some people cleave to it, but it's always a factor. Italian-American, Mexican-American, whatever, is how many people identify themselves. And then there are those who see themselves as the "true" Americans, Daughters of the American Revolution and people who say their ancestors were founding fathers and pilgrims and such.

An interesting facet of this is that many many African Americans are "more American" by this measure, in that their families have been on American soil for hundreds of years, yet you rarely hear this as a boast among African-Americans who talk about their heritage.

 

[lies]

The human condition is universal. I guess that is where we disagree

On the contrary, with that I most certainly agree. All I'm saying that, if you raise a Peruvian in France and a Frenchman in Peru, they will be "fundamentally" different than if they were raised in Peru and France respectively. So, if you think about it, I truly am agreeing with you on the universal human condition idea. It's not because they were relatively similar at birth that they cannot become very different over the course of their lives. And that brings us back to the nationality/geographical factor...

 

[lies]

I think regionality is more powerful as an identity.

Regionality is an important factor, but I don't think you can just toss nationality aside. Of course, you have to keep in mind that the American states are usually bigger than the European countries, so "nationality" may not be the word that's best suited. Still, you all have the same president, the same national holidays, etc., so nationality is still a point, no?

 

[jenn]

i agree with novella on the regionality totally. and i think as we become more and more diverse in our societies, saying you are canadian or american or what have you will be less and less defining. which as wabbit was saying, is great. it will be less a point of nationality and more about heritage.

 

[novella]

Regionality is an important factor, but I don't think you can just toss nationality aside. Of course, you have to keep in mind that the American states are usually bigger than the European countries, so "nationality" may not be the word that's best suited. Still, you all have the same president, the same national holidays, etc., so nationality is still a point, no?

Well, in a way, but I think that is more of patriotism and trying to act as a unified nation. To me, a Texan or a Missourian, or a Georgian can seem as strange and foreign in their habits and traditions and cultural assumptions as anyone from England or Sweden. There is nothing like being a New Yorker in Alabama. It's foreign in almost every respect. I would even say we might speak the same language, but the meaning of the words is different.

 

[Wabbit]

exactly. i am not interested in the pride part at all.that is why i am confused people keep bringing up pride or patriotism. it was never a question of pride in ones nationality, but whether national identity was of importance to you or your fellow countrymen.

OK

I guess it's because the pride part seems to mixed up in it all. People always say "proud" to be Canadian or American or British. So I guess that is where the pride part keeps coming into it. Well, anyway, did start off talking about your question without the pride bit... it then just drifted

and i can respect that about being enigmatic. i have no mystery. it is one of my wishes to be more enigmatic, but i fail miserably. but that is me.
i always find your contributions interesting.

I find the wearing of a black cloak and answering questions with non non sequiturs often adds a certain air of the enigmatic

And thanks, glad you find my some what bizarre rantings interesting

(welcome back, bun)

Thanks

Oh, and interesting you should mention Cornwall. Somebody I know was down there from Essex. She said that they were called "bloody foreigners" by the Cornish!

 

[Wabbit]

Well, in a way, but I think that is more of patriotism and trying to act as a unified nation. To me, a Texan or a Missourian, or a Georgian can seem as strange and foreign in their habits and traditions and cultural assumptions as anyone from England or Sweden. There is nothing like being a New Yorker in Alabama. It's foreign in almost every respect. I would even say we might speak the same language, but the meaning of the words is different.

That's what strikes me about being in the U.S Your states are almost like countries in themselves. Each state is so different and so proud of his/her own state. You are right, a New Yorker in Alabama would be pretty out of place

 

[lies]

Well, in a way, but I think that is more of patriotism and trying to act as a unified nation. To me, a Texan or a Missourian, or a Georgian can seem as strange and foreign in their habits and traditions and cultural assumptions as anyone from England or Sweden. There is nothing like being a New Yorker in Alabama. It's foreign in almost every respect. I would even say we might speak the same language, but the meaning of the words is different.

That's the thing with federal states, isn't it? The Wallons and the Flemish quite literally don't speak the same language, but I still don't think it calls for separatistic measures. I actually think it's quite nice, being so very different, but still sharing so much.

Of course, I don't know what it's like to be American, so I can't really talk. However, I have noticed that quite a lot of Americans move around a lot (statehopping, so to speak). I don't think that mobility between countries is that pronounced in Europe. Could that mean that you do consider the entire U.S. your country, but only a specific place your home? So it's the same thing, just on a different scale?

 

[jenn]

I find the wearing of a black cloak and answering questions with non non sequiturs often adds a certain air of the enigmatic

tks. i am going to try that at my next mom's and tot's playgroup.

 

[jenn]

Could that mean that you do consider the entire U.S. your country, but only a specific place your home? So it's the same thing, just on a different scale?

this is very true of canadians too. i lived in vancouver, but was still a maritimer. if you move to newfoundland you will always be a mainlander, even after 20 years. there are groups of maritimers in b.c who have dinner clubs and meet once a month and no self respecting torontonian would ever start a conversation without first saying,"hi i am bob and i am from toronto". most canadians are fierce about their home province.

 

[novella]

I have noticed that quite a lot of Americans move around a lot (statehopping, so to speak). I don't think that mobility between countries is that pronounced in Europe. Could that mean that you do consider the entire U.S. your country, but only a specific place your home? So it's the same thing, just on a different scale?

Can't speak for others, but my family has been in NYC for 5 generations. All my great grandparents were born in NYC. When I moved 100 miles upstate, it was considered treason!

I consider myself a New Yorker because I am one. Like jenn said, even if I move to California, I will be a New Yorker. People who move around a lot probably have a different sense of identiy, e.g., army brat, rootless hippie. Most Americans I know have had their family in the same few miles for generations. My neighbors have been farming the farm down the road since 1752. It's written on their barn. They're cousins with the whole dang town. I could live here for 40 years, and they'd still call me the girl from the city.

 

[Rustam]

And why not?

Because we fought for peace ...
Now most of people can speak furiosly, that Stalin wanted to seize all other world. It's true he wanted. Our writer (Rezun-Suvorov), during WWII was chekist (some kind of secret agent) that had access to secret material. He discribe them in his books "Ice-breaker", "Day M", he told there how could Stalin do it. He point there our disposition the day before war, our army standed not in guard position, but in preventive war posotion, so it can tell more about Stalins face.
But we didn't it, and the single reason why? Was that Hitler began first. It saved the world in own way. But US began to help, when war already began, and all chess figures were placed. US didn't supplied powder in barrel as it was with Sadam. Feel difference?

NB: The Harriman family are still very powerful Republican players. These relationships never die

No i didn't know that, thanks for mind food.
I have a feeling that you are historian. Am I right?

 

[Rustam]

Hmmm, can't find my donation tin! Just throw some cons in my hat!

Okay, show me your hat

 

[Wabbit]

There you go!

 

[Jenem]

that's a crazy hat, eh.

 

[Wabbit]

Yup.

With bells on it!