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Publish or Self-publish?

Daniel,

I finished my first novel about six years ago, sent it (3 ch) to a major publisher and received a hand written note replying: "I enjoyed this but only work through agents. You need to get one." (not exact quote.)

I e-mailed and snail-mailed agents by the dozen and couldn't get one interested, believe it or not. (I didn't) So instead, I went the traditional route and sent out stories and poetry to smaller magazines. I had many published, won some minor awards, put out a children's poetry book thru a small press and MOST IMPORTANTLY, (and no one ever seems to mention this) by submiting, I made my self known to editors and others in the literary world. A small press (read "no advance royalties, but the publisher takes all the financial risk) has finally published that novel and I have an agent because I sent a short story for an anthology that turned out to have, as editor, a Hugo Award winner. Through his connections, I managed to get an agent who is submitting my novels and children's books to major publishers. My current publisher is promoting my work at conventions and on the internet. I'm also going to conventions, other literary events and book signings to promote myself. I also have a non-exclusive contract on the aforementioned novel, so that, should it do fairly well, I can try to get it printed by a major publisher.

Through all this (4 years of submitting) I never sent my work to editors unless they PAID for it. (Okay, a couple of articles, a couple of favors, who's perfect?) If someone pays for your work, it does wonders for your confidentce. I haven't written any stories for a year now, because I feel I can devote myself to novels, which is what I set out to do in the first place.

Getting published is not an EVENT, it's a process. Each attempt, whether failure or success leads to the next step. If you try to jump over too many steps, you're sure to trip and fall.

Hope that doesn't sound boastful. I've not reached my goals yet; I'm just a little farther along in my journey. I have been told many times by other writers on the internet that it's impossible to break in; editors don't want new ideas, so I might as well self-publish. Not me. If it's not good enough to interest an editor (who, by definition, knows what's publishable), then I don't want it out there with my name on it.

Take care,

JohnB

http://www.johnbushore.com
 
Quote:
Originally Posted by Stewart View Post
OK. But explain yourself as to the comment that "the traditional way has changed" please.
WoodYouLike said:
I will, but, and this is not to 'fob' you off now, it has to be on another day (working today and very bizy with running my business ;-))
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It's been a while, but I did promise.
Stewart, I recommend you read "The Long Tail" by Chris Anderson for starters, then follow various blogs (this one will get you going for sure) and perhaps to even create your own Squidoo Lens.

These will explain much better than I can ever put in words how and why the traditional way of publishing has changed and will keep changing.
 
No thanks. Chris Anderson, in the blurb for that book, says Amazon has changed publishing. Not really, given that they don't publish. But they do sell the works of smaller publishers, which they don't stock since they'll most likely be POD. It just gives small businesses an outlet but the tradtional sales are still maintained by the heavy hitters.
 
Stewart said:
No thanks. Chris Anderson, in the blurb for that book, says Amazon has changed publishing. Not really, given that they don't publish. But they do sell the works of smaller publishers, which they don't stock since they'll most likely be POD. It just gives small businesses an outlet but the tradtional sales are still maintained by the heavy hitters.
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But have you read it? If so, sure you don't like what you read, but then I suggest you read "Permission Marketing" by Seth Godin, tells you why and how it has changed and will keep on changing.
Traditional way of publishing has ended, new ways of publishing and all kinds of writers fianlly getting the attention they deserve are popping up everywhere.
You can't stop progress.
 
I completely disagree that the traditional method of publishing has ended. It's very much evident. What there is is a bunch of crappy eBook sites and some self-publishing ventures on the periphery of the net leeching into Amazon.
 
It seems we have to agree not to agree then. Time will tell (keep an eye on Amazon and all other 'crappy' new and growing proper publishing methods)
 
Stewart said:
Or do you mean POD kiosks in the high street of 2020?
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No, that's not what I mean and you know that. Like I said - and I'm definitely not the only one, more and more writers, businesses and readers see and know it as well - you can't stop progress.

And since this is degressing into Panto I will leave it at this.
 
Can you give me examples of this progress? All I see is crappy POD books, ebooks, and business models appearing based around the vanity industry.
 
WoodYouLike said:
How many do you need?
Bloggers going public because they already know they have readers.
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Go, bloggers. Now, where do blogging and fiction meet? It's practically niche compared to good old fashioned storytelling.
Lenses on publishing (take your pick from the 913 featured)
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Lenses for groups of POD, ebook, and vanity publishers - isn't that what I already mentioned above? So what's new?

Also, have a look at this specific Lens, all info you’re looking for I think – even filled with links to blogs, newsletters and other websites.
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I just have. It's a lens offering resources for writers seeking "to self-publish or seek a traditional publishing contract." Same old, as I see it.
 
Is anyone else seeing anything new? Or is this just an elaborate version of my novel wasn't published traditionally but rather than get on with the next one, I'm going to claim there's a new wave of trex approaching and I'm at the forefront of it?
 
Just to complicate the issue...

Lulu publishing worked wonders for me. I'd had an agent for over a year but couldn't make that final breakthrough to a proper publisher. I Lulu-published, got some good reviews, and within a few weeks of telling my agent of the reviews, I got signed by Faber. Might be a coincidence but then again it might not be...
 
Stewart said:
Is anyone else seeing anything new? Or is this just an elaborate version of my novel wasn't published traditionally but rather than get on with the next one, I'm going to claim there's a new wave of trex approaching and I'm at the forefront of it?
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Wrong again Stewart. Has nothing to do with my debut novel being self-published, like so many others nowadays, because things ARE changing. I can't help that you don't like those changes and want to keep everything as it always has been.

Read the two books I recommended: "The Long Tail" and "Permission Marketing".
Read them properly, then think about it properly and then adept to it, otherwise you and your traditonal industry will loose out.
 
I followed the links provided by Woodyoulike. The lens sources seemed to be from people who had an interest in promoting self-publishing.

I also feel that traditional publishing is alive and well. It's just hard to break in. And so many of the writers who self-publish are, well, let's say not quite up to snuff, that self-publishing bears a stigma.

Over the years, I've posted on many forums and debated this issue. I've happened to notice that the ones who say the editors aren't looking for new talent are the ones who can't spell or construct a sentence. And they are adamant that "the traditional publishing industry is on the way out."

I've been in a writers group for years and we've had several self-publishers come in, smug as hell because they're "published." Not one of them could write worth a darn and not one of them would take the slightest bit of constructive criticism. Just like a few of the posters to this forum, they had decided that they were good writers all on their own and we were all DENSE because we couldn't see their genius. And two members of that group are English Lit professors.

There are many articles pro and con. The thing anyone considering the issue must do is to ask if they are being persuaded by the article or just using the article to confirm what the preconceptions they already have. It's hard to be objective, but it looks to me like the traditional publishing houses are doing just fine.

JohnB
 
WriterJohnB said:
I followed the links provided by Woodyoulike. The lens sources seemed to be from people who had an interest in promoting self-publishing.

I also feel that traditional publishing is alive and well. It's just hard to break in. And so many of the writers who self-publish are, well, let's say not quite up to snuff, that self-publishing bears a stigma.
........
There are many articles pro and con. The thing anyone considering the issue must do is to ask if they are being persuaded by the article or just using the article to confirm what the preconceptions they already have. It's hard to be objective, but it looks to me like the traditional publishing houses are doing just fine.

JohnB
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I understand your sentiment John, I'm not saying this or that is better and I'm definitely not saying editors aren't looking for new talent, they are.

My sentiment is about the evolving nature - because of better and cheaper digital printing - of new, better?, different ways of publishing and not just printing: blogs - well written blogs - are also a new way of 'publishing'.
Traditional publishing is changing and that industry needs to change with it, it's as simple as that IMHO.
 
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