Someone tell me this.

[Irene Wilde]

Wait......wasn't this one locked? What gives?

Was it?

Oh great! I'll get blamed for this, too!

 

[SFG75]

Was it?

Oh great! I'll get blamed for this, too!

I knew it!!.

(just kidding)

 

[sirmyk]

I was a little disapointed to see this thread get locked down earlier today. There was so much I wanted to say, and now that it's back open I can't remember what it was I wanted to say. Some great ideas were shared and some interesting points were made. I'm glad this thread is back under discussion.

 

[Yossarian89]

This is a great forum

 

[Ya Krunk'd Floo]

Are people's skins really so thin that they can feel bullied by a few people who disagree with their opinions?

 

[SFG75]

This is a great forum

Very true-No matter where you fall on the current debate in this thread, I think everyone's views are sincerely driven by what is best for the site.

 

[Ell]

I was a little disapointed to see this thread get locked down earlier today. There was so much I wanted to say, and now that it's back open I can't remember what it was I wanted to say. Some great ideas were shared and some interesting points were made. I'm glad this thread is back under discussion.

Missed all the action, yet again (I need to move to UK or at least to east coast NA).

Was this thread locked? Don't see why it would have been. Great discussion. It's good to see so many voicing their opinions.

ell

 

[ruach]

Ell, Yeah, it was locked after Wabbit replied to my post. I'm unable to help you see why, a lot of things don't make sense to me.

Ya Krunk'd, Thanks for getting my point.

 

[Stewart]

I don't see why we can't all enjoy switching off our brains and reading some fun stuff once in a while.

Fun, not tosh!

Post about Dan Brown all you want. There's plenty of threads to get stuck into.

 

[Shade]

Huh, I tried to type something bad about Stephen King here just now but the keyboard kind of jammed. Weird.

To fly in the face of general opinion, I think it's terrible that this thread exists. Simply because I agree with Ya Krunk'd Floo: why should people feel bullied or intimidated against sharing their opinions just because people voice their disagreement? As I'm one of the people who has criticised King among others, I have to presume that I'm part of the problem. If so, that saddens me. Get out there and say what you think, people - and more importantly, why.

I personally would be quite happy for people to have a go at the authors I like (plenty of them about here, do a search), so that I can then go on and on about how good they are all over again!

 

[Stewart]

To fly in the face of general opinion, I think it's terrible that this thread exists. Simply because I agree with Ya Krunk'd Floo: why should people feel bullied or intimidated against sharing their opinions just because people voice their disagreement? As I'm one of the people who has criticised King among others, I have to presume that I'm part of the problem. If so, that saddens me. Get out there and say what you think, people - and more importantly, why.

Wholeheartedly agree.

Also, the thread is titled Books you are afraid to post about and while everyone is saying it's a great thread it should be noted that nothing is happening here other than people listing books they like. Why do they like them and, more importantly, what the hell are they scared of?

Have the courage of your convictions to defend your opinions. Pathetic!

 

[jenn]

What about JK Rowling? Hasn't she done anything?

I would just like to say I disagree. She's done wonders getting kids to enjoy reading Harry Potter. How many go on to read other kids' books?

i don't have any statistics on this, but i know personally from working in a bookstore that a lot of kids do go on to read other stuff. i don't know how many copies of the chronicles of narnia i sold to hp fans. not to mention the series of unfortunate events and kenneth oppel's silverwing series. to me it seemed like giving kids a chance to peek through a hole in the wall,and once they saw what was over there, they were hooked.

 

[sanyuja]

May be I am posting this too late.

Martin, I have noticed this change too. Most of the discussions I see are not about books at all. When I joined, General Chat was more active than any book discussion section, but it was sensible. Some of the threads that are there now in GC are like... crap! The whole atmosphere, the feeling, members -- everything has changed. Could be because we have many new members joining in and the old members are vanishing. To be honest, the whole change has put me off. I no longer feel like taking part in any discussion any more. I started a thread about a book a few weeks back and it did not get even a single reply. Pity!

Martin, I don't know why there is a such a drastic change. But I do know that I hate it. Pity that TBF has become like this.

 

[Martin]

Ok, lets go through this, point by point, as you so frequently do, Ruach:

~~~

I’m sorry I missed this post earlier. Maybe you don’t have all the facts…this is the second time you’ve jumped to a conclusion. We had Ya Krunk’d’s permission to use his avatar.

Does that make it right? Ok, say I (just a regular member, as you are) give you permission to post about politics and religion - does me giving permission suddenly circumvent the rules set up by the site owner? I think not. Mind you, I haven't seen this crucifiction of the avatar, so I don't have all the details, but I assume the moderators closed it with good reason. Why question that?

~~~

There should be no reason for anyone to feel uncomfortable posting on any thread in the forum, with the possible exception of the Writers Showcase, where you are putting your work out for the world to see.

Which got this response:

So you’ve never been timid, ever? You either get over it or you don’t, but the we should not have to pander to the meek.

Don't you agree that the least we can do is try to create a friendly environment in which even the 'timid', as you put it, can post their opinions without getting their heads bashed in?

~~~

Are there not issues with someone who is so easily moved? These people that you refer to as bullies, then in turn get bullied by those with power—are you with me so far?—but then it justified because it is the view of the majority…do you fail to see that by silencing anyone, for any reason, is censorship?

First of all, don't be so condescending. It's ugly. Secondly, the bullies get 'bullied', because they write posts which are, apparently, offensive. They must be, otherwise they wouldn't get 'bullied'. You can't blame the moderators for stepping up; it's what they're here for.

~~~

This doesn’t make a lot of sense to me. On the hand it is all right to say something is good or bad. It is all right to say it’s good or bad, and justify it. But it is not all right to add emphasis in a negative fashion. Is that right?

Hang on, I'll explain it to you (see, condescending is ugly). Of course you're free to express your opinions on a book that someone posts about, good or bad. It's a different matter altogether, when you follow up every single post about a certain author with a post detailing why he is the bane of the literary world and how you'd rather scratch you eyes out than read anything written by him. If you've made your point clear (in a neat, argumentative and inoffensive way, I hope), then you've made it clear. If someone, lateron in the thread, still feels like he or she should praise the author in question, try to restrain yourself, and not repeat your problems with that author. We already know them, you posted them earlier.

~~~

I’m a jerk and proud of it. What is the difference between a member expressing their view with words and a mod expressing their view with a warning and banning? Isn’t it still bullying?

The difference is, the moderators have lengthy discussions before they resort to warnings and bannings, and even then they do it reluctantly. Jerks, however, do it for kicks.

~~~

I know being a mod isn’t a fun job, but they did sign up for it so aren’t worthy of pity. I’m sure more mods will make things even clearer, that’s tounge-in-cheek in case you missed it. The mods we have now, need to be consistent in their actions and set an example.

They should, yes, and, if I'm correct, they will.

~~~

And there you have it. I'm sure you won't agree, so let it rip.

 

[Ya Krunk'd Floo]

Martin, the gist of your argument is that certain members should modify their behavior - and consequently their personality - because some people get scared when they are goosed to say boo to...wait a minute, that's not right! Let me try again...because some people get scared by a little goose...? Nope, that's not it either...OK, one more try...because some people feel threatened by people disagreeing with them! That's it! Hoo-rah! What a shame your argument makes about as much sense as a tree eating peanuts...

 

[Martin]

If that's their actual personality, then there's something very very wrong with them.

But, you're saying it takes a personality change to act nicer? To not pounce on newbies for liking Stephen King and Dan Brown?

Really?

 

[Stewart]

If that's their actual personality, then there's something very very wrong with them.

To be honest, I don't like your personality as you probably don't like mine. I'm not going to change mine to suit others. Do they walk out to their working lives and not have to deal with personalities that may clash with their little world? Of course they do, so if anyone feels threatened then so be it; it just means the chaff is being sorted from the wheat. Call it Book Discussion Idol. It's a bit like Pop Idol only you discuss books. You'd like it Martin, you'd get to discuss with other peoples' words.

you're saying it takes a personality change to act nicer? To not pounce on newbies for liking Stephen King and Dan Brown?

Ah, missing the point again. Nobody pounces on the newbies; they pounce on King and Brown. If the newbie can't hold their own then so be it. There's plenty of corners where they can hide.

 

[Ya Krunk'd Floo]

If that's their actual personality, then there's something very very wrong with them.

It's wrong to have a personality that doesn't agree with everything!?!?! How bizarre, said the fella in the back.

, you're saying it takes a personality change to act nicer?

The world is full of different people, Martin. Some people will like you, and some people will not. What is important is that if you are happy with yourself then you should stay true to yourself.

To not pounce on newbies for liking Stephen King and Dan Brown?

Sounds reasonable to me.

 

[Halo]

To fly in the face of general opinion, I think it's terrible that this thread exists. Simply because I agree with Ya Krunk'd Floo: why should people feel bullied or intimidated against sharing their opinions just because people voice their disagreement?

As I understand it, people don't feel bullied because people voice their disagreement, but because of the way in which that disagreement is written. All too often, it involves a personal insult, usually about the original poster's intelligence.

There is absolutely nothing wrong in voicing a disagreement - that is the basis of debate. For example, it would be fine to say something like, "I can't stand King's writing style/poor endings/his characterisation etc" and then go on to discuss why, and maybe give some examples to back up your opinion if you wish. However, what we tend to get is something like, "King is shite and if you like his work you must be a brain-dead idiot". That is insulting, bullying and makes your opinion into a personal attack. Obviously that is an example, but that kind of post does occur. That is what people are talking about when they say they are afraid to voice their opinions in case they are bullied.

People need to make sure that they don't make their differing opinion into a personal attack.

 

[Stewart]

People need to learn to stand up to bullies.