Someone tell me this.

[David Frame]

I think I've been here for a few months now, so I can't comment on the befores. But, a pal of mine came on, promoted my (first attempt at a ...) book and he got slated - huge argument come bun fight. I came on, took a bucket full of personal crap, kind of rode it out and then got some excellent support from members like Stewart and Shade (no arse kissing intended).

I agree with Martin to a degree, I think that members who make typo's, like real mainstream authors, are Dan Brown fans or whatever else, should not be insulted but disagreed with.

Martin, if you don't like a thread, then don't post in it. It's like me complaining about a TV channel when I've got three hunderd other ones to pick from. I see this site for what it is, a message forum where I shall more than likely never come face to face or have a real time conversation with anyone here. If I think someone's a tit (of which I am sure some are) then I think of them as a tit and avoid them as I do in the real world.

Change doesn't always mean worse...

 

[Stewart]

Can't I just watch the six hour film again?

 

[Irene Wilde]

Well, the new tuck n' roll upholstery job still isn't finished in the ol' padded cell (soon, I'm being assured), but here's some food for thought:

1) This is "The Book Forum," which is like being WalMart in a way. There are plenty of "boutique" forums out there, smaller and more focused, where like-minded readers can gather. But with 4,000+ members, TBF is doing volume business. With that many members, and a broad-based approach to books, one is going to get, as they say, all kinds. Not everyone is going to get along or even going to want to get along. That's the nature of this particular beast. Of course, there mght be a solution to this, just like in a brick n' mortar bookstore -- divide up your "best sellers" (Brown, King, Rowling, and so forth -- all readily available at your nearest WalMart) from your hard-core literature (not readily available at your nearest WalMart, except maybe in comic book -- sorry, graphic novel -- form). Just a suggestion.

2) Being a large, broad-based business, there are people here who are going to come in every day and browse through everything, meet their friends for lunch, and maybe even sleep in one of the storerooms. Other people are going to stop in get what they need and get the hell out. Others still are going to come in, look around and go "Ewww! This place is just like being at Walmart!" and flee. The turnover in members is going to be high. This, in turns, means, the forum is never going to stand still, it's always going to be shifting as old members move on and new members move in. Of course, TBF has changed. Look at all the people who no longer post and the new people who have taken their place. A forum is a reflection of its members. This forum is reflecting its current active membership. In six months there will be more turnover and the forum will appear to have "changed" again. It's a philosophical decision every business owner faces, do they want to go for high volume/high turnover or do they want the same loyal customers coming back again and again? I think the owners here have clearly decided to go with volume.

3) Meanness, hostility, anger management needs, etc., etc., etc. Ok, remember, I no longer have a horse in this race, ok? I'm just waiting for my little cyberhome to get over some technical difficulties, then I can go back to playing there and go back to being a lurker in the shadows here. But here's what I've seen: there is a lack of consistent moderating in the forums and I believe it comes from a lack of leadership. Too many times members of this forum have been told the Administrator is "too busy" to attend to matters and have had to endure prolonged absences of executive decision-making while "issues" have been allowed to fester and grow until they become problems.

Now, bring on the abuse.

 

[jenn]

Can't I just watch the six hour film again?

NO!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!


why would you even do that? go watch alexander if you're into self abuse.

 

[Stewart]

Now, bring on the abuse.

You smell!

 

[Irene Wilde]

You smell!

Yeah, and...

Is that all you've got?

Where's the diatribe about what a wicked evil person I am because I don't watch TV, eat at McDonald's, or listen to Jessica Simpson?

Come on people! Bring it!

 

[Stewart]

Where's the diatribe about what a wicked evil person I am because I don't watch TV, eat at McDonald's, or listen to Jessica Simpson?

You don't?

You must be a bully, then!

Damn elitists!

 

[Irene Wilde]

Damn elitists!

Now that's more like it!

 

[hay82]

I would say that most of the abuse people feel comes from the Books and Intelligence thread with things like this: (Sorry Jay but it was easiest to find if from you)

Quote jay

Not at all. Will I read outright badly written crap? Or something that has a ‘group feel’ to it? No. My life really isn’t that vacant.

The astute will notice I’ve mention like very likes of a Lewis Carroll in various tirades against Harry Wanker supporters with pubic hair

Quote 2, Jay

A detective you will not make. I assure you. Maybe not even a reader. You certainly can’t even read my posts properly and want to dispense “advice”?

Perhaps not the strongest but it does have some personal attack attached to it. Here it's of course easy to argue that if you don't want your intelligence attacked you shouldn't read the books and intelligence thread.

 

[hay82]

And just to be on the current topic. Irene you suck and you better make sure you get that padded cell back soon or I don't know what I'm going to do.

 

[Wabbit]

I think the one thing we are yet to see is actual quotations, with sources, that represent the bullying. I think people can't make the division between themselves and the books they read.

We aren't about to turn the threads into a slanging match with finger pointing out members.

A large number of members of this forum have come out to say the forum has a hostile vibe and they feel bullied because their statements and reading preferences are pounced upon in a very hostile way. Are all these users just over sensitive or have a very vivid imagination? Of course not.

It has been going on in the past, and it's going to stop. Disagreement is fine, but there needs to be some respect and politeness.

 

[Stewart]

Not at all. Will I read outright badly written crap? Or something that has a ‘group feel’ to it? No. My life really isn’t that vacant.

Translation: I won't read badly written fiction, or anything carrying much hype, as I have better things to do with my time.

The astute will notice I’ve mention like very likes of a Lewis Carroll in various tirades against Harry Wanker supporters with pubic hair

Translation: I have mentioned Lewis Carroll as a good childrens' writer against those adults that think Harry Potter is good.

A detective you will not make. I assure you. Maybe not even a reader. You certainly can’t even read my posts properly and want to dispense “advice”?

Translation: Please do not try and give me advice when you have read my post incorrectly.

Sorry hay, but none of these are personal attacks. It's just written in an indirect way that people - who read Harry Potter - need it spelled out to them....real..s.l.o.w.l.y.....

 

[Kenny Shovel]

No, Martin's an ex moderator who abuses the power, something I totally disagree with. He would close - or delete others' posts from - threads that he started because he saw them as being his threads to do with as he pleased. On his second stint as moderator he made claims about the quantity of reviews he had written which, when novella investigated, turned out to be a 100% hit rate of plagiarised reviews. I neither trust or respect him.

But you two kids have never actually got together and knocked boots? Well, that's disappointing, as I'm a romantic at heart.

 

[Stewart]

We aren't about to turn the threads into a slanging match with finger pointing out members.

Did I say that?

A large number of members of this forum have come out to say the forum has a hostile vibe and they feel bullied because their statements and reading preferences are pounced upon in a very hostile way.

Where? Quote them for me!

Are all these users just over sensitive or have a very vivid imagination?

Yes, and they need a lot of smilies at the end of sentence to understand too.

 

[Irene Wilde]

you better make sure you get that padded cell back soon or I don't know what I'm going to do.

Don't tell me! Tell the big guy in charge! (Actually it's circumstances beyond his control -- we are thinking early next week the asylum should be back in business.)

Irene you suck

Ah! Just like the good ol' days Martin seems to miss so much!

 

[Wabbit]

Well, the new tuck n' roll upholstery job still isn't finished in the ol' padded cell (soon, I'm being assured), but here's some food for thought:

1) This is "The Book Forum," which is like being WalMart in a way. There are plenty of "boutique" forums out there, smaller and more focused, where like-minded readers can gather. But with 4,000+ members, TBF is doing volume business. With that many members, and a broad-based approach to books, one is going to get, as they say, all kinds. Not everyone is going to get along or even going to want to get along. That's the nature of this particular beast. Of course, there mght be a solution to this, just like in a brick n' mortar bookstore -- divide up your "best sellers" (Brown, King, Rowling, and so forth -- all readily available at your nearest WalMart) from your hard-core literature (not readily available at your nearest WalMart, except maybe in comic book -- sorry, graphic novel -- form). Just a suggestion.

2) Being a large, broad-based business, there are people here who are going to come in every day and browse through everything, meet their friends for lunch, and maybe even sleep in one of the storerooms. Other people are going to stop in get what they need and get the hell out. Others still are going to come in, look around and go "Ewww! This place is just like being at Walmart!" and flee. The turnover in members is going to be high. This, in turns, means, the forum is never going to stand still, it's always going to be shifting as old members move on and new members move in. Of course, TBF has changed. Look at all the people who no longer post and the new people who have taken their place. A forum is a reflection of its members. This forum is reflecting its current active membership. In six months there will be more turnover and the forum will appear to have "changed" again. It's a philosophical decision every business owner faces, do they want to go for high volume/high turnover or do they want the same loyal customers coming back again and again? I think the owners here have clearly decided to go with volume.

3) Meanness, hostility, anger management needs, etc., etc., etc. Ok, remember, I no longer have a horse in this race, ok? I'm just waiting for my little cyberhome to get over some technical difficulties, then I can go back to playing there and go back to being a lurker in the shadows here. But here's what I've seen: there is a lack of consistent moderating in the forums and I believe it comes from a lack of leadership. Too many times members of this forum have been told the Administrator is "too busy" to attend to matters and have had to endure prolonged absences of executive decision-making while "issues" have been allowed to fester and grow until they become problems.

Now, bring on the abuse.

You are basically saying because the forum has a large user base we have to accept people to be intolerant, rude, and abusive? Of course not! Why should we? This forum has rules, the same rules as your own forums membership agreement and they will be enforced.

There is no reason why we all can't be respectful and civil to each other!

As for Darren, he is a very busy man. I'm not at liberty to reveal what he does but I can tell you it's a very important, taxing, stressful, and tiring job. He also recently got married. He is allowed a life outside of this forum. When he has the time he will appoint new moderators and fix anything that needs fixing.

 

[Wabbit]

Did I say that?

Yes, via implication. Naming names of those that we belive will be responsible would turn the thread into a slanging match.

Where? Quote them for me!

No need. You are posting in it. All these users have come forward to say they are afraid to admit liking certain books. Also go and read the "What happened thread" for more people.

 

[hay82]

Sorry hay, but none of these are personal attacks. It's just written in an indirect way that people - who read Harry Potter - need it spelled out to them....real..s.l.o.w.l.y.....

I know it's written in an indrect way. There is a way of saying it that does make it a personal attack. Harry Potter readers lives are vacant (hard for me to argue that one, since I read it and my life is vacant.). The last of the quotes, saying that someone would not even amount to being a reader, that has be a personal attack.

The insults are indirect but they are still very much there.

I know I'm just going to sound bitter because I'm 22, read Harry Potter and liked it. You won't get me to say that it's great writing or that it makes me think about anything.

 

[Stewart]

You are basically saying because the forum has a large user base we have to accept people to be intolerant, rude, and abusive?

The day you cite an example I'll consider listening.
Until then, it's all in your head.

 

[Stewart]

Yes, via implication.

Ah, so you are reading between lines and making your own inferences?

No need. You are posting in it. All these users have come forward to say they are afraid to admit liking certain books.

So afraid that they nonchalantly list certain books?

Also go and read the "What happened thread" for more people.

No. I've read that one. It's rather mixed.