Someone tell me this.

[Irene Wilde]

You are basically saying because the forum has a large user base we have to accept people to be intolerant, rude, and abusive? Of course not! Why should we? This forum has rules, the same rules as your own forums membership agreement and they will be enforced.

I'm saying whenever you have large numbers of people you will have disagreements. It's up to moderators to maintain order -- consistently and equitably. Oh! I'm out of the forum business. You're information is out of date.

As for Darren, he is a very busy man. When he has the time he will appoint new moderators and fix anything that needs fixing.

I have no doubt he is busy, but the problems in any organization, be it a business, a government, or a forum, can always be traced to the top. We have an expression in America: "The Buck Stops Here."

 

[Stewart]

We have an expression in America: "The Buck Stops Here."

That's because you're all gun toting mad raving hunters and the deer never has a chance.

 

[Irene Wilde]

That's because you're all gun toting mad raving hunters and the deer never has a chance.

Not true! I figure the alcohol consumption levels the playing field -- the gun-toting mad raving hunters are just as likely to shoot themselves as the deer.

 

[Shade]

There seem to be two different points of view here. The first is that suggested by Halo, which is that people are literally being called stupid or idiot or expressing their opinions on books. I haven't seen any evidence of this but I agree that if it is happening then it's not acceptable.

On the other hand Wabbit says that the problem is more general, that people feel their "reading preferences are pounced upon in a very hostile way." Well, this is hard to quantify. I can only speak for myself but I would consider that, while I am robust in my criticism of writing I consider bad (see Matthew Reilly thread for example), I am not (I think) hostile to people posting opposing views, and I always try to back my views up with examples. I think detailed reasoning is the essence of informed opinion-making so I would be horrified to see that disappear in place of a panel of posters simply listing what they like and don't like without being able to argue the toss.

I appreciate what you say Wabbit about not making this into a name-calling thread. However let me say that I am happy for anyone to cite back at me any of my posts which they consider personally hostile or where I have called them idiotic or stupid. Stewart might offer the same consent (or might not), since he and I are among the most robust critics of what we consider bad writing on the board, and most likely to come up in threads like this.

 

[Shade]

Due to punishment, he was told he could either have his Playstation taken away for a month, or he could read a book. He chose Harry Potter and loved it. A few years ago he asked me to list some books he might enjoy reading in case he ever got in trouble again.

This reminds me of the episode of The Simpsons where the TV breaks down and Homer tells the family about how he and Marge met (or it might have been Maggie's birth or something like that). Bart protests: "Boooooring!" Homer's response: "Shut up and listen, boy! You might have to tell this to your family someday if something breaks!"

 

[Stewart]

Stewart might offer the same consent

Certainly.

 

[mr_michel]

Well, the new tuck n' roll upholstery job still isn't finished in the ol' padded cell (soon, I'm being assured), but here's some food for thought:

1) This is "The Book Forum," which is like being WalMart in a way. There are plenty of "boutique" forums out there, smaller and more focused, where like-minded readers can gather. But with 4,000+ members, TBF is doing volume business. With that many members, and a broad-based approach to books, one is going to get, as they say, all kinds. Not everyone is going to get along or even going to want to get along. That's the nature of this particular beast. Of course, there mght be a solution to this, just like in a brick n' mortar bookstore -- divide up your "best sellers" (Brown, King, Rowling, and so forth -- all readily available at your nearest WalMart) from your hard-core literature (not readily available at your nearest WalMart, except maybe in comic book -- sorry, graphic novel -- form). Just a suggestion.

2) Being a large, broad-based business, there are people here who are going to come in every day and browse through everything, meet their friends for lunch, and maybe even sleep in one of the storerooms. Other people are going to stop in get what they need and get the hell out. Others still are going to come in, look around and go "Ewww! This place is just like being at Walmart!" and flee. The turnover in members is going to be high. This, in turns, means, the forum is never going to stand still, it's always going to be shifting as old members move on and new members move in. Of course, TBF has changed. Look at all the people who no longer post and the new people who have taken their place. A forum is a reflection of its members. This forum is reflecting its current active membership. In six months there will be more turnover and the forum will appear to have "changed" again. It's a philosophical decision every business owner faces, do they want to go for high volume/high turnover or do they want the same loyal customers coming back again and again? I think the owners here have clearly decided to go with volume.

4000+ on the database, the actual number of active users is way lower

3) Too many times members of this forum have been told the Administrator is "too busy" to attend to matters and have had to endure prolonged absences of executive decision-making while "issues" have been allowed to fester and grow until they become problems.

now this i can agree with

 

[sirmyk]

Martin, the gist of your argument is that certain members should modify their behavior - and consequently their personality...

I'm not sure he wants members to modify personality (which is impossible)... but merely adjust attitude (behavior) to a reasonable level.

 

[Robert]

That's because you're all gun toting mad raving hunters and the deer never has a chance.

Not true, we’re not mad! Most of us are just trying to thin the deer population so they don't starve after we steal their land so we can build a new mall next to the old one. And never you mind about the deer skin rug by the fireplace or the trophies on the wall.

Besides, even the best redneck can't shoot straight after drinking cheep beer or moonshine.

Get your facts straight, Stewart.

 

[sirmyk]

These three quotes seem to sum it up well:

It's about appropriateness...

Personality is who you are and behavior is what you do... Behavior is something you can control, out of respect for other people, society or yourself.

...some behavior is uneccessary and serves no useful purpose.

...

...if you don't like a thread, then don't post in it

Unfortunately this isn't always the way it turns out on this forum, hence the trendy term "troll" which has stirred up discussion recently.

This is "The Book Forum," which is like being WalMart in a way.

This is a great analogy. Although, I've never wandered down the book isle to heckle those perusing back covers of trendy authors, nor have I been heckled.

 

[leckert]

Well, I'm an ass-pincher, and a spammer, and a chit-chatter. I'm also a writer, a reader, and a lover of conversation. Some people call me the space cowboy... no wait, there I go again. Sorry, Martin.

I'm not sure what's the big dealie-o. If you don't want to participate in "superficial" or "trivial" or "shallow" threads, then... don't. confused: )

Why does everything have to be deep or meaningful or thought provoking? Why can't some things just be fun and entertaining? Who cares if there are 1000000000 posts about me pinching ronny's ass, or 520000000 posts of nothing but italicized descriptions of something some might find funny?

Seems to me that the forum is what it is. If you want more stimulating threads, then start one. I'm sure you'll get responses. I know if I hadn't found some entertaining drivel here, I wouldn't have stuck around for long. Maybe that would make some folks here happy, but I have had a good time, and will continue to do so. I'm not sure exactly what you would have the moderators, or Darren, do?

 

[leckert]

I'm not sure he wants members to modify personality (which is impossible)... but merely adjust attitude (behavior) to a reasonable level.

define "reasonable".

 

[Ronny]

Well Leckert from the sounds of some of the threads they want our heads on pikes outside the Barnes & Noble as an example to readers everywhere.

I don't mind someone's negative critiquing of a book or an author, but when they continue to attack the thread about that book it bothers me. Once you've stated your point that is enough, why keep arguing. I also think that the tone could be less hostile, being bullied or belittled isn't going to get me to read a better book, now if you were to say, "Dan Brown really wasn't as good as _____ you should read his book and see what I mean", then chances are I am going to take your advice and read it, but not if you say "you stupid sheep I can't believe you read that and had the nerve not only to like it but post on it" then I walk away with nothing but bad feelings toward the poster. They are each say the same thing but the way it's said makes a world of difference.

I know my reading list could be better, thats why I came to a book forum, to find better books.

 

[leckert]

Well Leckert from the sounds of some of the threads they want our heads on pikes outside the Barnes & Noble as an example to readers everywhere.

They will just have to take a number!

leckert thinks about getting in an ass pinch, just for the humor of it, but thinks Martin might be watching, and decides against it.

 

[Ronny]

Well maybe if you pinched his too .

 

[ricky]

They will just have to take a number!

leckert thinks about getting in an ass pinch, just for the humor of it, but thinks Martin might be watching, and decides against it.

careful leckert, martin doesn't like the talking in italics either...sorry martin....couldn't help it..been holding out for so long.....

 

[leckert]

careful leckert, martin doesn't like the talking in italics either...sorry martin....couldn't help it..been holding out for so long.....

Yeah, see what I did there? I committed two offenses in one! thanks for noticing!

 

[ricky]

Yeah, see what I did there? I committed two offenses in one! thanks for noticing!

no sweat big guy...always got one eye on you....

 

[leckert]

no sweat big guy...always got one eye on you....

so then we should see eye-to-eye, cause I'm watchin' you, baby!

 

[ricky]

so then we should see eye-to-eye, cause I'm watchin' you, baby!

tee hee hee hee.....sorry back to how the forum needs to be serious......