Space Shuttle - For What?

[Zolipara]

Perhaps you should mention that NASA spends about 10-15 billion a year, but the US military spends about 420 billion a year. If i'm not mistaken the 420 million is about half the total US budget. And thats in a country without any real enemies anymore.

Russia is next on the list of big spenders on military with a measly 65 billion(the numbers for russia varies a bit according to the source). Combine the military spending of all other nations in the world, and you get a total of about 800 billion. So the US spends about 50% of the rest of the world combined. And you complain about a few billion for space research.....

 

[Motokid]

It's just a simple question about the space shuttle program, since one is lifting off today.

You want to start in on military spending feel free to start a new thread...

 

[Zolipara]

It was a response to your comment:

we've got major national security issues

I dont want to discuss it, just mention that the proposed increase in the military spending from 2005-2006 is bigger than the total budget for NASA.

Count the income from spinoff products from the space program and you will probably end up seeing that the spaceprogram has payed off. It can be hard to count the income from various projects connected to the space program though.

 

[Robert]

They should get the bloody planet we live on sorted first before bouncing probes off passing rocks.

Yeah, like that's ever going to happen.

 

[Motokid]

on topic....

I heard a window covering fell off and damaged one of the tiles on the shuttle that's lifting off today. They fixed it obviously...but man....that's kind of exactly what caused the last shuttle disaster.

I'll look for a news story on it. I heard it on the radio.

edit: here's the story: http://news.bbc.co.uk/2/hi/science/nature/4677495.stm

 

[Robert]

Yeah, that story has been all over the news. I expect folks will make a big deal about it because of what happened last time. They've returned to earth with broken tiles before, they'll do it again.

 

[Jazzman]

Some good points here.

It seems that any quest of exploration is always plagued by people who don't agree with it or, as is usually the case, people who don't understand it. To say space exploration in any way is a total misuse of resources is absurd because here we all are on computers using the internet to talk to people all over the world in a group forum. There exists advanced weather predictions for things such as the Hurricanes which could only have been predicted through satellite meteorological information and there exists live coverage on television for events such as the Olympics and Tour de France. How many people today use cell phones, GPS or have ONstar on their cars? I bet if anyone seriously did a cost-to-benefit analysis on space they would find it is one of the most cost efficient development areas of all time.

History is probably the best teacher for a debate on this topic. How many people died and how much money was spent in trying to send ships to India for precious silks and spices before the New World was found? How many people have died trying to climb Everest and K2 or died trekking to the South Pole? How many animals and people died before vaccines for such diseases as TB, smallpox, malaria, cholera, tetanus and Hepatitis were developed? People are usually appreciative of things after a lot of toil and trouble has been spent creating them yet these same people are the critics and procrastinators while development for future benefits still continues.

It's always easiest to criticize when you take an uneducated and biased approach to a topic. Sure, there are many problems still around for us to deal with on Earth right now but anyone who uses this fact as a pretense for not continuing to advance ourselves by means of development and exploration is not taking a fair look at our society because despite what many sensationalistic medias and personages state by dwelling on everything bad that happens on the planet, there is still an equal if not greater amount of good and benevolent issues around.

 

[dele]

Blue. Some blew this way, some blew that way.

Eek.


Back on topic... I believe the reason we spend so much money and energy to learn about space is because it's just part of being human.

Mankind has been studying the stars for as long as there's been recorded history. I can't think of one ancient society that didn't study the night sky. In some cultures the stars were thought to be gods, while many more believed them to be signs from the gods. They were able to calculate intricate mathematical formulae based around the stars to figure out things that we know only thanks to modern science. For example, the Greeks knew thousands of years ago that our planet was round, but the knowledge was lost in the middle ages.

It didn't take people too long to figure out a practical application for reading the stars. Sailors and merchants never would have been able to cross the seas and oceans otherwise. It's thanks to them that distant cultures were introduced to new ways and new ideas were traded.

The stars have created romantic and nostalgic emotions in people for as long as there's been poets. I think it goes back to the ancient societies who worshipped them as gods. They needed so desperately to believe they weren't alone in the cold nights that they took comfort in the stars that would come back again and again. The stars were never in exactly the same place twice and always disappeared when the sun came up, and that would have made them seem alive to our early forefathers.

When you realize that the celestial bodies have always been important to men, it seems natural that with our scientific advances we would study them in greater depth. True, our planet isn't exactly a utopia, but trying to ignore our failings and move on is another trait of mankind. I could write a whole essay just about that!

In a nutshell, what I'm trying to say is that after so many years and generations of men, we can't just shake off our yearning to see what else is up there. When we're lonely we'll sit at our window and watch the stars; when we're in love we'll lie in the starlight and watch for shooting stars; when we're at our lowest point, we'll wish upon a star for help. It's these in these moments that we're most exposed, most aware of our mortality, and it seems very wrong not to learn more.

 

[mehastings]

It's just a simple question about the space shuttle program, since one is lifting off today.

Not anymore. It's been cancelled.

Military spending in this country really isn't something you can compare as many of us in the country don't support it, there's just nothing we can do about it.

 

[Robert]

Not anymore. It's been cancelled.

Military spending in this country really isn't something you can compare as many of us in the country don't support it, there's just nothing we can do about it.

A faulty fuel sensor. Bummer.

Many of us do support the military. History has far too many examples of what happens when a nation is not strong.

 

[leckert]

Not anymore. It's been cancelled.

Military spending in this country really isn't something you can compare as many of us in the country don't support it, there's just nothing we can do about it.

I'm not sure the "many" would appreciate your painting them with your brush.

When we do not have a strong military, we do not have a strong nation. We are the largest, and most powerful nation on this planet. To do anything other than defend it would be treason, and would lead to disaster.

 

[novella]

Oh goody, a political dust-up. I have a good idea: I'll be the mercenary.

 

[mehastings]

I'm sorry, I think I wasn't clear.

I'm not saying that people in this country don't support the military. I think most people in this country support it to some extent. Those who don't are foolish. What I was saying is that there are many (and there are) people who would like to see some of that money spent on other things (like education, public safety, medicare/social security and environmental regulation). By many I didn't mean all, or most or even half. Thats all. I was trying to say that you can't compare the money spent by NASA to that spent by the miliarty and say "well, comparable to what you give your military, this is nothing".

 

[leckert]

I'm sorry, I think I wasn't clear.

I'm not saying that people in this country don't support the military. I think most people in this country support it to some extent. Those who don't are foolish. What I was saying is that there are many (and there are) people who would like to see some of that money spent on other things (like education, public safety, medicare/social security and environmental regulation). By many I didn't mean all, or most or even half. Thats all. I was trying to say that you can't compare the money spent by NASA to that spent by the miliarty and say "well, comparable to what you give your military, this is nothing".

Understood.

My final question to you would be "Which Marines do you want to tell 'sorry, we can't support you anymore'"?

 

[novella]

I was just being frivolous, mehastings.

If I may jump in, the spin-off technological advances that spring directly from space exploration and defense research projects are myriad and invaluable. Everything from materials science to microchip manufacturing technology to satellite and comms development is indebted to such research projects. Often there is distinct and sensible method behind the apparent madness. Just the fact that these developments are not immediately dependent on the free-market economy to proceed is significant.

 

[leckert]

Oh goody, a political dust-up. I have a good idea: I'll be the mercenary.

Jesus, I just hope I'm not on the wrong side of your fence! (can we call you "novel-a-bo"?)

 

[Robert]

I'm sorry, I think I wasn't clear.

I'm not saying that people in this country don't support the military. I think most people in this country support it to some extent. Those who don't are foolish. What I was saying is that there are many (and there are) people who would like to see some of that money spent on other things (like education, public safety, medicare/social security and environmental regulation). By many I didn't mean all, or most or even half. Thats all. I was trying to say that you can't compare the money spent by NASA to that spent by the miliarty and say "well, comparable to what you give your military, this is nothing".

I wish I could believe the military would one day be unnecessary. I really do.

LONG LIVE NASA.

 

[novella]

Jesus, I just hope I'm not on the wrong side of your fence! (can we call you "novel-a-bo"?)

I don't have a fence, but I will gladly pay you Tuesday for a hamburger today.

 

[Zolipara]

I was using the example of the military only because motokid wanted to allocate money from the budget from NASA to schools etc because it was such a large sum spent on a "unnecessary" project. The space program is only a small post on the budget and has given more than enough spinoff technologies to pay for itself. Usually you hear about the big things like communications technology, but many other small items like smoke detectors are also spinoffs from the space program.

 

[Evil Homer]

It probably seems now that NASA is a waste of time, because we've only just started. But eventually, in the future, there will be a time when the benefits of space travel will be so huge that humans will look back on today like we look back at the first archaic ships. But if we dont take the first steps now, we'll never get there. People should look at the big picture. It's necessary, even if we never reap the rewards in this lifetime. Sure, we need to concentrate on our planet, but lets face it, we'll be clinking martinis with kryptonions the other side of the universe before humans stop wiping each other out.