Space Shuttle - For What?

[sirmyk]

I don't have a fence, but I will gladly pay you Tuesday for a hamburger today.

Doesn't Wimpy from Pop-Eye often say that line?

I don't believe we should stop funding NASA. NASA is like Dupont: without either the world would never move on.

I don't believe we need to throw more money at education; however, I do believe the money we give to education is wasted and not put to good use, such as hiring more teachers and shrinking classroom sizes. In my job I am often working with elementary schools, high schools, colleges, etc. and I see millions of dollars spent on useless shit each year, while teachers
keep their $20-30,000 salaries and important programs are cut to buy new football helmets.

I grew up in a poor town and suffered the affects of budget cuts. I guess you could say I'm bitter about school funding.

Maybe NASA should be in charge of education; at least we'd be heading the right direction.

 

[Slacker]

posted by leckert:

My final question to you would be "Which Marines do you want to tell 'sorry, we can't support you anymore'"?

Oh that is such bullshit.

People who object to our military spending rarely to never mean or mention CoL expenses, pay, or benefits of individual soldiers, nor are they referring to the legitimate costs of their equipment or supplies.

The objections to military spending usually refer to unwarranted costs from war profiteers, R&D boondoggles foisted on us in the name of "national security" by the private sector, and plain old kickbacks and graff <sic> that cut from the same budget that we could be using on the above mentioned costs in the first paragraph.

 

[leckert]

posted by leckert:


Oh that is such bullshit.

People who object to our military spending rarely to never mean or mention CoL expenses, pay, or benefits of individual soldiers, nor are they referring to the legitimate costs of their equipment or supplies.

The objections to military spending usually refer to unwarranted costs from war profiteers, R&D boondoggles foisted on us in the name of "national security" by the private sector, and plain old kickbacks and graff <sic> that cut from the same budget that we could be using on the above mentioned costs in the first paragraph.

I was being facetious to emphasize my point that military spending is required. And the truth is that, although no one would say "we should cut the military's pay", when the military is cut back, one of the first things to go is benefits. I may be hijacking a thread, here, but, I am tired of seeing benefits eroded, especially for our retired veterans. They were promised a 20 year retirement plan with a percentage of their pay and medical coverage for life. Each year part of their medical coverage is reduced. They are now utilizing a "pay to play" health care policy that in no way resembles the promise made to them.

You are right, no one wants to cut Cost of Living or other military benefits, but those benefits are the first thing to go when the budget gets reduced.

If you think that is bullshit, then compare military pay increases over the last 20 years with inflation and the cost of living and median incomes.

That, Mr. Slacker, is bullshit.

 

[Slacker]

Er. . . Ms.

You asked about what people want leckert, so I addressed that, but now you want to talk about what actually happens I guess. It makes sense, cause that way, we're both right. . . . but those cuts to soldier's pay and benefits don't come from at the behest of peaceniks who want to see our military budget reduced, they come from the "warmongers" doling out the cash to the private sector who don't care that they have to bend the military over to do it on whatever budget they have to work with. And that's no bullshit.

I think mehastings is closer to the former category than the latter (though sie can step in to correct me if I'm wrong). That's why I said what I did of your reply to hir.

I have four siblings (in-laws counted) in the military with families so I'm not a stranger as to how many ways they get screwed over, and I pose no objection at all to the point you've now refined to mean somewhat different than you originally said.

 

[sirmyk]

Er. . . Ms.

You asked... what people want..., so I...dressed... but now you want to talk about what happens... It makes sense... soldier's pay... come from peaceniks who want to see our military... doling out... cash to... bend the military over... to do it on whatever... they have to work with. And that... stings... closer to the former... I'm wrong... That's why ... I did... hir. ...I'm not a stranger... to... get screwed over, and I pose no objection at all...

My Internet kept cutting out on me, so this is all I was able to get from that last post.

 

[leckert]

Too funny, SirMyk...

Sorry about the "Mr.", Ms. Slacker. (I really need to check bios before I address someone! )

My father is a retired sailor, My baby brother is in the Navy, and I was in the Marine Corps. I now support the Marine Corps as a defense contractor. I'm probably one of the beneficiaries of the 'warmongers' you speak of. I hope you are not lumping anyone in congress who supports military increases into the category of "warmonger", though. NO ONE, especially those closest to the fighting, wants war. While it would be naive to say that there are no 'warmongers' in congress, I think money spent on the military is a good thing. Of course there could be some reform to how the money is spent, and of course there are a lot of hogs at the trough. In my mind, though, that is a state problem. We keep sending the same hogs back to get fatter each election. (Senate/House term limits?)

We can holler for cutting the military budget, and hope active duty personnel don't get cut, and hope that they get better pay raises, but it ain't happenin.

 

[Puddleglum]

Now that Discovery has reached Mir and survived a similar incident to the Columbia tragedy do you think that NASA might actually think about redesigning the Space Shuttle?

In many ways it would seem a shame to give up on trying to "go where no man has gone before"

I just wish I live to see us land on Mars or the Moon again for that matter. (if you believe it actually happened 36 years ago in the first place )

 

[Motokid]

There are plenty of people calling for privitization (spelling?) of the space program. Take it out of NASA's hands. When you llok at the things Burt Rutan (spelling again?) has been able to accomplish with private investors one has to wonder if this is not such a bad idea?

Well over $1 billion (tax payer dollars) spent to solve the problems of the last (deadly) shuttle flight caused by a falling chunk of foam...and what happened on the very next flight?

 

[leckert]

I absolutely think that privatizing the space program will probably lead to the next leap in propulsion technology. I don't think, however, that privatization should equal the demise of NASA, though. We need a government entity to be involved with space travel, as I see it as the "Military of the future". Probably not our future, but maybe our grandchildren's/great grandchildren's future.

We seem to set higher expectations on NASA (and other government agencies) than we would ever set for a civilian company. The foam thing was as much greater shock to the scientists at NASA than it was to us. They definitely need to get it fixed, but, fortunately, no one was killed this time. I think they will pour all their resources into fixing this before they launch again. I also heard that they were redesigning the shuttle, and that the "new" vehicle would be in operation around 2010. (no facts here, just thought I heard that).

About space travel in general:

I have long held the belief that if we are to get serious about space travel, we need to figure out how to break the Warp barrier (speed of light) if it is possible. If it is not possible, we will not be able to leave the confines of our immediate solar system. Cyrogenics and all that are good, but that type of time is not practical enough to be a viable means. I'm going to start a new thread on this topic because I would love to get all of y'all's opinions on this issue.