Vladimir Nabokov: Lolita

[pontalba]

Peder Its only with this reading that I can work up sympathy for HH. Upon my first reading, I was so angry/disgusted with Charlotte and HH that any softer emotions were swept aside. The manner of the readers notification of Lolita's death was so round about to me, (as I have no memory for names) that I had to go back and re-read the foreword to get the characters fates set in my mind. By that time the analytical section of my brain kicked in, and the brunt of emotion was lost.

So, that is my round about way of saying.........no hankies for me.

Perhaps I look at this tale with a slightly different eye, as I was raised by a widowed mother that did not remarry. Yes, partially because of worry over trusting someone around her young daughter.

Because ya just never know.

 

[Peder]

At this point I'm seeing the novel as a sort of Rorschach inkblot test for all of us.

StillILearn,
Wow, that really puts your finger on it!!
I've been thinking about Lo's Diary, and my favorite unwritten book, HTN . I once said I thought it would be easy to write such a book because of so much material already in Lolita. But the more I think about it, the more I realize one would still face exactly the same problem that we here are up against, namely how to view Lo and what kind of personality and motivations to give her. One could fill a page with ink-blots trying to do just that!

Connected to that, here's another killer humorous line that I just came across, as Humbert is thinking about fee negotiations with her:

"She was so difficult to deal with."

Way to go, Lo! Way to go!

I think I'll send her boxing gloves for Christmas.
Peder

 

[Peder]

Peder Its only with this reading that I can work up sympathy for HH. Upon my first reading, I was so angry/disgusted with Charlotte and HH that any softer emotions were swept aside......

So, that is my round about way of saying.........no hankies for me.

Perhaps I look at this tale with a slightly different eye, as I was raised by a widowed mother that did not remarry. Yes, partially because of worry over trusting someone around her young daughter.

Because ya just never know.

pontalba

I still come across some of Humbert's thoughts and actions that absolutely revolt me. Some I can imagine, but some just drive me right up the wall. Definitely no hankies for him! Mine are all for Lo. I have a big soft round warm fuzzy pinky kind of inkblot for her. MY inkblot for him has a gun pointing out the side and is definitely dark black.

And I'm not sure that your take on the story is so different than most of ours. But then again I haven't yet come to the scene where he realizes that he never meant anything at all to her (is that true?) and she leaves him bereft. I guess that is the scene where one really gets to put one's money down and make a decision about him. And the inkblots might be all over the place there. Or not.

But there I go, just starting the entre discussion all over again!

Peder

 

[pontalba]

I feel sorrow for the life that Lolita lost when HH came to town. It occured to me that if not for HH's interference in her life, she would not have died at the time she did. What was it a remote Northwestern town? If she'd been in a place where the medical care was up to snuff............perhaps. He brought nothing good or even pleasant to her life. She even felt she had to 'jump from the frying pan into the fire'. If she hadn't left that situation, who knows what could have happened. But even with all of that, even HH had to admit, that he didn't even know her mind. What could she have become? Yes, I feel sorrow for her, but I can't say I like her.

OTOH, HH had many opportunities to live a 'normal' life. He was 'bent' to begin with. So, in the end, he didn't have much of a chance either did he?
The ripple effect in full bloom.

 

[StillILearn]

I give up. Eco will have to wait for another day. (I can't say I liked him all that much anyway.)

I began reading Lolita again last night, and with a brand-new sense of appreciation.

Now. Does anybody here know why HH kept having "severe breakdowns" and admitting himself to psychiatric hospitals? I kind of just took these visits for granted the first time around, he's so matter of fact about it.

Or Nabokov is.

 

[Peder]

I give up. Eco will have to wait for another day. (I can't say I liked him all that much anyway.)

I began reading Lolita again last night, and with a brand-new sense of appreciation.

Now. Does anybody here know why HH kept having "severe breakdowns" and admitting himself to psychiatric hospitals? I kind of just took these visits for granted the first time around, he's so matter of fact about it.

Or Nabokov is.

StillILearn,

Erk. Can there be a mystery which is not illuminated by rereading? I am afraid you might have found one Not even a hint of a thought comes to my mind. Anyone else?

Maybe it is just Nabokov giving himself an opportunity, which he never misses, to mock psycho-analysis, and maybe to say, without saying, that "those guys are so incompetent that they couldn't even recognize a pervert as severe as Humbert even when they saw one?" Humbert mocks them somewhat along that vein I recall. But as to why he went in, no recollection at all.

Or maybe it is, again subliminally, to underline the severity of Humbert's obsession and to set him far apart from being a normal person.

Or maybe it was a defensive wall of insulation between Nabokov and his story, so to speak, to clearly align himself with the mores of the time, which were much less understanding of mental illness? (The book was after all on one of the three themes that he felt society could not tolerate, and maybe he felt he needed some distancing from it).

Or maybe it was a way to capitalize on those attitudes and really set Humbert up as a monster?

Or maybe it is a ploy, and a total falsehood, by Humbert to try to gain pity from the jury, or otherwise suggest he wasn't responsible for his behavior?

Or maybe the squirrel just buried that acorn too deep to ever find it again? If there was an acorn to begin with?

But good-o on becoming a rereader!

And if you find the answer, by all means tell us. Seriously. The world wants to know.

BTW Are you rereading the Annotated Lolita? Appel's notes can make one very smart about the book. He really picks up on allusions and provides explanations. But even there I don't recall any answer to your question (obviously!).

Welcome aboard!
Peder

 

[Peder]

StillILearn (cont'd)

I thought I'd try googling for an answer to your question using the search phrase 'Humbert was hospitalized because' but had no direct luck, apart from the usual bunch of partial, not directly relevant hits (and some people who actually do have the name Humbert ).

I did however come across one review that I thought might be of interest here. The title was something like "Humbert's America" (mind like a sieve, I can't even remember from there to here ). It can be found here if I did that correctly. It's four pages long and I haven't read it yet, but it might be interesting for people who have read Lolita and are curious to read something else about the book.

If one actually wants an absolute ton of commentary about Lolita, then one only has to do a search on plain 'Lolita' and one will be deluged. I have more Lolita "Favorites" than I can even look at from a previous discussion.

So, the Why-Was-Humbert-Hospitalized sweepstakes are still open for a lucky winner. Come one, come all!

Peder

 

[pontalba]

StillILearn & Peder
That would be extremely interesting to follow up on and research. Is there nothing in the annotated version? I didn't think about it too much either, but I've looked over the early years once again, but no, he hardly remembered his mother, respected and evidently loved his father very much. Although his father seems to have been somewhat of an inattentive father in his galivanting about with various ladies. But I found no resentment, only a minor "alas" that his father wasn't there during his Annabel phase. There was one allusion to his aunt, well really two. Firstly his father one time forgotten affair with his aunt, and the fact the father seemed to have forgotten about it completely while it ruled the aunt's life. On p.10 the reference to his aunt's rules as follows: "I was extremely fond of her, despite the rigidity---the fatal rigidity---of some of her rules."

I strongly suspect that HH, who it seems committed himself, except the final time, was suffering from extreme melancholia, and from what he says----feeling guilty about his proclivities. The man did have a conscience, albeit a small one.

 

[Peder]

StillILearn & Peder
That would be extremely interesting to follow up on and research. Is there nothing in the annotated version? I didn't think about it too much either, but I've looked over the early years once again, but no, he hardly remembered his mother, respected and evidently loved his father very much. Although his father seems to have been somewhat of an inattentive father in his galivanting about with various ladies. But I found no resentment, only a minor "alas" that his father wasn't there during his Annabel phase. There was one allusion to his aunt, well really two. Firstly his father one time forgotten affair with his aunt, and the fact the father seemed to have forgotten about it completely while it ruled the aunt's life. On p.10 the reference to his aunt's rules as follows: "I was extremely fond of her, despite the rigidity---the fatal rigidity---of some of her rules."

I strongly suspect that HH, who it seems committed himself, except the final time, was suffering from extreme melancholia, and from what he says----feeling guilty about his proclivities. The man did have a conscience, albeit a small one.

Pontalba
Nice research, and if you haven't seen the reason there, I more than ever think it is not there to be found! Although maybe in the notes, as you say.
And I wouldn't quarrel with your thought that he committed himself either.

But I can't for the life of me come up with a reason. There are reasons we would have committed him gladly (although on what overt evidence?), but I just can't imagine him seeing a reason for trying to help himself. Yet.

I know I am going to be looking hard to find any evidence of remorse at his parting with Lolita, but so far in the book he just seems hopelessly selfish and smug in his belief that he is one of those rare people who can see nymphets and pick them out from among ordinary girls. And he's also aware that he can get into severe trouble with the police. So, cynical me thinks that the only reasons he might seek help would either be to learn how to better evade the law, or how to better snare nymphets. And certainly *not* to diminish his obsession or pleasure with them.

But anyone can change, we like to say, so I'm going to have my eagle eye open (again) as I come up to the ending. For me that's his only chance remaining.

But, I notice you say he feels guilty about his proclivities. I don't want to question that too severely, because it is a step in the right direction for him. But where, if I may politely ask? I hadn't noticed, but then I am learning that there are a lot of things I don't notice.

Genuinely interested,
Peder

 

[pontalba]

Peder
Between the sections where HH richly deserves to be strung up from the nearest tree, there runs a thread of self-flagellation. He consistantly referes to himself as a 'monster'. Once before Charlotte died, he speaks of himself as a 'inflated pale spider', such as one would see in a garden. Sorry, I lost the page #. But I did find an interesting clue as to the timing of his sanatorium visits. p.32-33 he speaks of his arrival in NYC attempting to catch sight of nymphets in Central Park and his disgust with the 'deodorized career girls' that one of his co-workers keeps attempting to fix him up with. HH says "A dreadful breakdown sent me to a sanatorium for more than a year; I went back to my work--only to be hospitalized again.

It seems that when he has been frusterated for a period of time, or otoh, has been giving into his desires, he has a breakdown. He speaks of the 'robust outdoor life' promising him relief. Later down the page he describes the north pole adventure. He says: "My health inmproved wonderfully in spite or because of all the fantastic blankness and boredom..................No temptations maddened me."

During his hospitalization just prior to meeting Lolita, he refers to the fact that he has extended his own stay. That fact in itself proves he committed himself, at least that time. If they commit themselves, they can leave anytime they desire.

 

[SFG75]

pontalba
Oh, does she ever use the same tone of voice!
And Shelley Winters caught it perfectly! She was magnificent as Charlotte, an overwhelming force of life who could fill a room and dominate anyone in it with her forceful personality. Big Shelley defines Big Haze perfectly for me! Simply unforgettable!
Peder

I just love H.H.'s comment in regards to being shown the flowers and Lo, "yes, they are lovely." That is one of those lines that I just love that Nabokov wrote. And to steal an earlier comment from Peder, it would make an excellent remark towards anyone else in any other love story--if only she wasn't so young, and if H.H. wasn't so perverted.

 

[pontalba]

Did anyone notice any other comments or explanations, or any sort of follow up on the remarks regarding the 'fatal rigidity' of HH's aunt?

That could be a whole 'nuther can 'o worms!

 

[Peder]

Peder
Between the sections where HH richly deserves to be strung up from the nearest tree, there runs a thread of self-flagellation. He consistantly referes to himself as a 'monster'. Once before Charlotte died, he speaks of himself as a 'inflated pale spider', such as one would see in a garden. Sorry, I lost the page #. But I did find an interesting clue as to the timing of his sanatorium visits. p.32-33 he speaks of his arrival in NYC attempting to catch sight of nymphets in Central Park and his disgust with the 'deodorized career girls' that one of his co-workers keeps attempting to fix him up with. HH says "A dreadful breakdown sent me to a sanatorium for more than a year; I went back to my work--only to be hospitalized again.

It seems that when he has been frusterated for a period of time, or otoh, has been giving into his desires, he has a breakdown. He speaks of the 'robust outdoor life' promising him relief. Later down the page he describes the north pole adventure. He says: "My health inmproved wonderfully in spite or because of all the fantastic blankness and boredom..................No temptations maddened me."

During his hospitalization just prior to meeting Lolita, he refers to the fact that he has extended his own stay. That fact in itself proves he committed himself, at least that time. If they commit themselves, they can leave anytime they desire.

Pontalba!
You are doing a simply marvelous job of proving to me the truth of what I said, that there are many things I miss! I can't believe (but I can!) that so many hints about HH's character flew right below my radar screen! Some day we will just have to read the same book! I am truly shaking my head in amazement that Humbert had any self-perception at all, for example. And the reference that he extended his own stay says loads about it. And by inference aboiut how it may have came about. Boing!

But your discovery that he thought his temptations "maddened" him tops all. It leaves me speechless in about eight directions all at once: that you found it, and that he knew it, are but two. But enough to make me sit back, stop, and totally try to reimagine the picture.

I have never in all my life been so surprised in a discussion of a book I thought I had just read!

Speechless in NY
Peder

 

[Peder]

Did anyone notice any other comments or explanations, or any sort of follow up on the remarks regarding the 'fatal rigidity' of HH's aunt?

That could be a whole 'nuther can 'o worms!

Pontalba,
Ain't gonna touch dat wid a ten foot pole!
I ovviously ain't noticin' nuttin' lately.
Sheesh,
Peddur

 

[SFG75]

Funny line of the moment

-H.H. checking the hotel books for his competitor, who in one place registered as-- "Harold Haze, Tombstone, AZ" LOL-now that's humor!!.

 

[Peder]

I just love H.H.'s comment in regards to being shown the flowers and Lo, "yes, they are lovely." That is one of those lines that I just love that Nabokov wrote.

SFG
You like that one, do you? Boy have I got another one for you. In fact a whole scene!

I remember you commented that Lo was playing tennis and then all of a sudden she was gone.

Well, she has just now flown the coop on me too. But first I managed to notice a priceless scene that may now also make you say "OMG!" in the light of later events. Although I am not sure how far you are.

But just take a look at pp 220-221 and see if you don't admire Nabokov's audacious way of dragging the clue right past the front of our noses, and throwing sand in our eyes at the same time, while also revealing the truth if we could but notice it. The subject is Quilty of course.

Nabokov is an absolute magician, defying us to notice the rabbit he is about to pull out of the hat!

Enjoy!
Peder

 

[Peder]

Humor?

SFG,
How about the town of "Soda, pop. 1001" on pg 220?

There could be a whole thread devoted to just trading one liners from Lolita! And it could go on for a l-o-n-g time.

Peder

 

[SFG75]

SFG


Well, she has just now flown the coop on me too. But first I managed to notice a priceless scene that may now also make you say "OMG!" in the light of later events. Although I am not sure how far you are.

But just take a look at pp 220-221 and see if you don't admire Nabokov's audacious way of dragging the clue right past the front of our noses, and throwing sand in our eyes at the same time, while also revealing the truth if we could but notice it. The subject is Quilty of course.

Nabokov is an absolute magician, defying us to notice the rabbit he is about to pull out of the hat!

Enjoy!
Peder

OMG!!, I just re-read that..Clare Quilty......that rascal!!. Arrrghhhhh!, the man!. And I thought I was paying attention and that I wasn't missing a thing.

 

[Peder]

OMG!!, I just re-read that..Clare Quilty......that rascal!!. Arrrghhhhh!, the man!. And I thought I was paying attention and that I wasn't missing a thing.

SFG
ROTFL, with you, not at you.
Because I am glad to see someone with the same reaction.
Nabokov does do that to one doesn't he.
Diabolical wretch!
The whole Lolita/Quilty thing was likely in full swing before we even read page 1!
Certainly before Humbert ever met her!
Wretch! Wretch! Wretch!
We wuz had!
Peder

 

[StillILearn]

BTW Are you rereading the Annotated Lolita? Appel's notes can make one very smart about the book. He really picks up on allusions and provides explanations. But even there I don't recall any answer to your question (obviously!).

I am somewhat embarassed to admit that I now own: Appel's Annotated Lolita, the James Mason version of the movie, the Jeremy Irons's version of the movie, and the CD with Jeremy Irons reading Lolita, and that I don't regret one penny that I spent on any of them.

At present I am listening to Irons read the book whilst checking certain baffling portions of it out with Appel.

I really do love Jeremy Irons's take on Humbert Humbert. I believe that he got inside the man's head, and I can't praise him enough for the masterly job he does of reading the book. I would highly recommend borrowing this audio version from the library (or better yet, buying it.)

We're all obviously insanely infatuated with Nabokov and his story, and we might as well go the whole hog.