Vladimir Nabokov: Lolita

[SFG75]

I've had the "who is Quilty?" question on my mind for the second day now. After H.H. analyzes how his mystery-stalker signed in, he presumes several things about him. First, he mentions that the stalker may have been a former lover of Charlotte, or someone who at least was on good terms with the family. There are roots, but I in particular want to know exactly how he fits into the whole picture, though Nabokov doesn't delve too deeply into that.

Getting back to a more elemenatry note-did H.H. love Lo? When he is in her house, as she is married and with a child on the way, he still is struck by her and inspite of her condition, he wants her to leave with him. Now this is amazing in and of itself as he talks of fat ankles of college girls....college girls!. Yet, Lo certainly wasn't like her old self in her highly-expectant phase. Certainly she had morphed into something that he had never expected, even with her disappearance.

 

[pontalba]

Peder Oy! Numbskull that I am. Oh VN! And btw don't feel like the Lone Ranger regarding missing the whole Quilty thing! Upon first reading I was caught off guard as well! But we all should have nicked on when as you pointed out on p220 she "misread a date" HAH! That'll be the day!

And StillILearn, don't worry, last year when another forum went over this lil darlin', I bought the Irons version, Netflixed the Mason version and read it simultaneously. Shucks, now I have to get the tapes...........

As far as Mason vs. Irons, to me Mason brought a voluptuous quality to HH that Irons did not (for me). Irons has more of an ascetic quality about him that while he was marvelous in the role, didn't quite gel for me. Probably its partially because I saw the Mason version when it came out and was quite young. And yet, I do prefer the Irons version of the movie all in all.

 

[Peder]

I am somewhat embarassed to admit that I now own: Appel's Annotated Lolita, the James Mason version of the movie, the Jeremy Irons's version of the movie, and the CD with Jeremy Irons reading Lolita, and that I don't regret one penny that I spent on any of them.

At present I am listening to Irons read the book whilst checking certain baffling portions of it out with Appel.

I really do love Jeremy Irons's take on Humbert Humbert. I believe that he got inside the man's head, and I can't praise him enough for the masterly job he does of reading the book. I would highly recommend borrowing this audio version from the library (or better yet, buying it.)

We're all obviously insanely infatuated with Nabokov and his story, and we might as well go the whole hog.

StillILearn
So? I was waiting to get to the insane and embarrassing parts of yout post, but I didn't see any. You must have left them out.

Yes, of course one should go the whole hog! I had only the Annotated Version and the two DVD versions until, one day at Border's, after I was all done selecting books (and browsing, and having coffee, and so on) I was walking to the checkout. I passed by an innocent display of boxed audio sets that had the Iron's audio version faced out. I grabbed that so fast that one might have thought I was a thief! I had heard so much about it. Cost was no object, and I haven't listened to it yet but that will come. Some day, when I have a long stretch of peace and quiet and am prepared for total immersion. It is going to be glorious, I just know it!

The only insane things I notice are the times of day that some of us log on to post about the book. Right, pontalba? Of whom speaking, I can only say that her text analysis of Humbert's obsession now provides one more reason yet to reread the book again with just that in mind, looking for every such clue. And now that I think of it, who says that Humbert has an obsession?

So very glad that you have decided to join the sane people of the world
Peder

 

[Peder]

I've had the "who is Quilty?" question on my mind for the second day now. After H.H. analyzes how his mystery-stalker signed in, he presumes several things about him. First, he mentions that the stalker may have been a former lover of Charlotte, or someone who at least was on good terms with the family. There are roots, but I in particular want to know exactly how he fits into the whole picture, though Nabokov doesn't delve too deeply into that.

I love the echo of Nabokov in the way you phrase that, "former lover of Charlotte, or someone who at least was on good terms with the family." Just the subtle way N would have put the misleading emphasis. But turn it around and you would have it right. The references to Quilty start early, and there are enough to exceed the Federal safety limit for the number of times you can smack yourself on the forehead and say "OMG, not again!"

I couldn't do it on my own. But there's an Appel note that lists all of them, and I finally went through that and put little Q's in the margin of the text. But that still left a disjointed impression. I didn't get the full flavor of Nabokov's skill/sneakiness until I reread the book with all the Q's in place. Then every strange allusion leaped out in full meaning -- and some of them are pretty obscure! But I think you'll find the answer you are looking for. It's right there alongside the needle in the haystack. Right near the barn door, almost as you walk in.
I am evil, I know, but I know it, so it's OK!

Getting back to a more elemenatry note-did H.H. love Lo? When he is in her house, as she is married and with a child on the way, he still is struck by her and inspite of her condition, he wants her to leave with him. Now this is amazing in and of itself as he talks of fat ankles of college girls....college girls!. Yet, Lo certainly wasn't like her old self in her highly-expectant phase. Certainly she had morphed into something that he had never expected, even with her disappearance.

That is still in my future, and I am looking forward to it. I am also amazed at how much is going to happen in the relatively few remaining pages. (And I am getting my hankies ready). But first the tour of the motels with all those hilarious sign-ins.

CU in a bit,
Peder

 

[Peder]

Peder Oy! Numbskull that I am. Oh VN! And btw don't feel like the Lone Ranger regarding missing the whole Quilty thing! Upon first reading I was caught off guard as well! But we all should have nicked on when as you pointed out on p220 she "misread a date" HAH! That'll be the day!

And StillILearn, don't worry, last year when another forum went over this lil darlin', I bought the Irons version, Netflixed the Mason version and read it simultaneously. Shucks, now I have to get the tapes...........

As far as Mason vs. Irons, to me Mason brought a voluptuous quality to HH that Irons did not (for me). Irons has more of an ascetic quality about him that while he was marvelous in the role, didn't quite gel for me. Probably its partially because I saw the Mason version when it came out and was quite young. And yet, I do prefer the Irons version of the movie all in all.

pontalba,Once again you see more than I do! I am going to have to reread that page 220 even more closely now because I now missed your reference.
And I must compliment you again on your uncovering all those hints to Humbert's illness/obsession. I am almost completely stalled now in how to think of him as he comes toward finding Lo again.

Re Mason vs Irons, I do have to say that it is Irons who engraved the unforgettable image in my mind of Humbert standing next to an (upstairs?) window as Charlotte shows him the house. He is feigning listening to her, as he surreptitiously spreads the curtains just a crack with his hand and turns his head sightly, and leans back just a little to get the view just right, to sneak an appraising peek sideways out of the corner of his eye, out toward the girl's school next door. Priceless!

And it is also Irons whose voice is in my mind for that passage mentioned earlier for the third hanky, "but I know as surely as I know I am going to die ....," and it still affects me, even as I just type it. :embarrassed:

But then OTOH there is Peter Sellers, all of hims, in the other version. So both versions are necessary. One clearly needs two DVD players! j/k j/k

Now back to sleep,
Peder

 

[pontalba]

Peder Speaking of insane times to be posting! I do believe kind sir, that is a case of the pot calling the kettle black.

Now I do have to buy both the tape and the Annotated............OY!

More Later.................

 

[pontalba]

Also, I know there is a reference to Q traveling about the country putting on his little plays..........going to schools, barns, whatever. Have to find it, but don't have time now, and was too wiped out last night to look futher. If anyone spots in the meantime........please post the page number.
Thanks
See all later.

 

[Peder]

Peder But we all should have nicked on when as you pointed out on p220 she "misread a date" HAH! That'll be the day!

Oh pontalba!
You did it again!
I was convinced you must be mistaken because I didn't remember any date, and I certainly didn't have one in mind to point out.
(Now I offer my humblest most abject apologies for having such a thought.)

But, anyway, I just now scanned the page. Date? Date? Where's a date?
No date.
So I scanned again.
Still no date. She must have thought of a different page.
But I decided to really try to read it word for word, and then:

"Oh disaster, some confusion had occurred, she had misread a date in the Tour Book, and the Magic Cave ceremonies were over! She took it bravely, I must admit -- and when we discovered there was in kurortish Wace a summer theatre in full swing, we naturally drifted toward it..."

Some confusion had occurred .... possible.
Misread a date ... happens to everyone.
Magic Cave ceremonies ... Oh that Nabokov.
She took it bravely .... brave little girl, something new
I must admit ... /Lolita thinks, what a dope/
kurortish Wace ... have to look that up
A summer theatere ..... never saw it coming.
Drifted toward it .... of course.
And who was there? .... needless to say! /Aaaarrrggghhh!/

Pontalba! Now you see here! If you think we should have "nicked on to it" there (love your phrase), then you are playing in a different league than I am.
And Humbert with me. Oh what a sucker he was! Never mind me!
And Lo? She is even more wily than N himself if that is possible.

But all kidding aside, do you just naturally see such things when you read? They go completely by me, and that one through however many rereads I have done! Some say that girls are smarter than boys. I am a disbeliever no more! You have done me in.

I was actually thinking of the infinitely more obvious (to you anyway, kind lady) second and third lines, counting upward, from the bottom of pg 221. Black and white like that is more my speed (after many rereads, finally )

Sheesh!
But nice sheesh
Peder

 

[StillILearn]

As far as Mason vs. Irons, to me Mason brought a voluptuous quality to HH that Irons did not (for me). Irons has more of an ascetic quality about him that while he was marvelous in the role, didn't quite gel for me. Probably its partially because I saw the Mason version when it came out and was quite young. And yet, I do prefer the Irons version of the movie all in all

As odd as this may seem, I can't decide which of the movies I thought to be superior. Mason and Winters and Sellars together is a combination that can't be beat, but Jeremy Irons is so good at playing the degenerate that I think he gave a whole new depth to the character. The other thing is, and I think I may have written this somewhere in this thread (but maybe it got lost) is that Mason seems so somehow self-effacing in the role of HH that it's hard for me to even see him. I find myself looking at anybody else who is onscreen with him, and I am one person who simply adores James Mason.

But, just wait until you hear Irons reading this book. He doesn't miss a single telling inflection. Irons has got inside the head of HH.

Okay, I'm laughing because I'm hoping for spoilers here! I can use all the spoilers I can get!

The first mention of Q that I caught was when Charlotte suggested that HH go to her local dentist, a nephew or cousin of the playwright, I think she called him. Then, later, I read that the woman, Edusa (did Nabokov just leave off the 'M'?), knew that Q was a predator of young girls? Didn't I? The woman who spoke to them from her car as they were leaving on their last trip ? Saying what a shame it was to take Lolita away before the opening night of the play? Did she also know that Q would be the unseen companion to Lolita and HH on that entire road trip? Is HH the only one who didn't know? (Aside from the gentle reader, of course.)

I'm coming to believe that every time Nabokov says, "Of course you will have noticed" he is laughing at us.

Does the color red invariably proclaim the presence of Q? (I'm thinking now of the "maraschino cherry" sized absess that was behind HH's imaginary toothache and of the red delicious apple that Lolita was fooling around with on the Sunday morning couch...)

 

[StillILearn]

Peder:

And Lo? She is even more wily than N himself if that is possible.

I'm laughing!

 

[pontalba]

Peder Don't worry, I didn't nick on until the 2nd time and re-spot reading. Now I have to find that reference I mentioned............... Plus little girls like Lolita don't fool me for a moment. Manipulative to the Nth degree!

StillILearn I'm not sure if the dentist reference was the first clue. Have to check. It seems that the poster in Lolita's room reference was close to that.

I see what you mean about Mason/Irons, but still have to go with Mason. Probably because I saw that one first, at an impressionable age, and already liked him to begin with. Plus, Sellars was, well Sellars, but Frank Langella as Quilty.............wow, he really tied that one down!! Physical build included, which helps. Do you remember how gorgeous Langella was in Dracula..................?.

 

[Peder]

StillILearn
Red for Quilty? Maybe, but when HH and the reader started catching on, then the cars became Humbert's own Dream Blue, and Quilty's Campus Cream, Horizon Blue, Crest Blue and then Quilty's favorite camouflage, grays: "Chrysler's Shell Gray, Chevrolet's Thistle Gray, and Dodge's French Gray ..." And N even had the audacity to add those three dots there! He either did an enormous amount of research into the trivial, or else had a mental knack for creating it, but his talent is awesome for those goopy automobile color names that mean absolutely nothing.

pontalba,
Girls are manipulative you say? I guess so!
That scene reminded me of nothing so much as the snake, er Eve, er Lo in the Garden of Eden tempting HH with an apple. Look what I found!
So don't tell me, let me guess, men actually go for girls with beautiful red apples? And all girls know it? Too much! j/k but that was definitely a Garden of Eden scene for me.

SFG,
I think we men need reinforcements here.

Peder

 

[SFG75]

But first the tour of the motels with all those hilarious sign-ins.

The Insomnia Inn.

 

[pontalba]

p. 196, first par.: "You just must allow her to take part in The Hunted Enchanters. She was such a perfect little nymph in the try-out, and sometime in spring the author will stay for a few days at Beardsley College and may attend a rehersal or two in our new auditorium."

However on p. 31 see the reference he found in the prison library on Quilty, and read over to p. 32 to see the next paragraph. Evidently 'Clarence' did correct the slip of HH's pen. Both of these passages gave me the impression of Q traveling about the country with his play. Trolling no doubt.

Also the dentist Quilty, Charlotte knew that he was related to the 'other', but seemed uncertain as to the exact relationship. It is unclear to me if there was any meeting or not. It seems to me that in at least the first film, there was a cocktail party that Quilty attended.

BTW, someone further up the thread asked if there was any mention of Lolita beginning her monthly cycle. P. 47 in the Friday paragraph HH wonders about this, but I don't believe there was any later conclusion reached.

 

[pontalba]

The first reference I can find to the red car is on p.213 when HH is headed back to the Chestnut Crest Motel. He lists the various people he sees, and lo and behold.........."from another a red hood proturded in somewhat cod-piece fashion; and nearer to our cabin, a strong and handsome young man with a shock of black hair and blue eyes was putting a portable refrigerator into a station wagon. For some reason he gave me a sheepish grin as I passed." Hmmmm....had said young man seen someone visiting Lo while HH was gone? It was just a little later that the Aztec Red Convertible was noted by HH. (p.217)

 

[SFG75]

BTW, someone further up the thread asked if there was any mention of Lolita beginning her monthly cycle. P. 47 in the Friday paragraph HH wonders about this, but I don't believe there was any later conclusion reached.

If I remember correctly, he purchased some candy and "sanitary items" for Lo. So yes, it does appear that she was...well.....yeah.....you know.


Just finished the rest of it today. The scene where H.H. shoots Quilty 5,878 times(I'm not exaggerating) and he reels from room to room was an absolute scream. I was chuckling loudly enough that the wife asked me what was so funny "about that book" The image of the two older, corpulent men wrestling around on the floor like inept walruses was enough to make my sides hurt with laughter. Every time he fired, the reaction on Quilty's part was hiliarious.

Scene:

(BANG!)

Quilty: "Good god man, put that thing away this instant!, you know...."

(Bang!)

Quilty: "Oh dear, you nicked me that time old fellow"

(Bang!)

"Now put that dastardly thing down!."

(Bang!)

Quilty: "That was quite a shot old boy!."

(bang!)

......

There isn't a smilie here that adequately represents the rolling with laughter nature that this scene gives a person.

 

[Peder]

For some reason he gave me a sheepish grin as I passed." Hmmmm....had said young man seen someone visiting Lo while HH was gone? (p.217)

pontalba,
In fact, I thought it was right after Humbert entered their room and found Lolita sitting there on the bed with a wonderful glow, that he immediatley put two and two together and ran back out looking for the young man. But no luck!
I do remember her glowing once
Peder

 

[Peder]

The Insomnia Inn.

Ahh SFG,
ROTFLOL!
You whet my appetite for the reverse tour!
Haven't done a thing about it today, mostly recovering from the early morning posting. And for a moment I thought you might be referring to this forum

But actually that seems to be a name reflecting Nabokov's own general opinion of our motels. Elsewhere also he comments on the noisiness, paper thin walls, and especially the Niagara Falls torrents that one hears unleashed, the heating, and so on. So either that's his own opinion showing, or maybe it is a set piece in his writng (based on his own experience?) But I think he thinks they all are insomnia inns based on his summer-time butterfly excursions traveling around the States.

Peder

 

[pontalba]

pontalba,
In fact, I thought it was right after Humbert entered their room and found Lolita sitting there on the bed with a wonderful glow, that he immediatley put two and two together and ran back out looking for the young man. But no luck!
I do remember her glowing once
Peder

Thats exactly right. But, was it the young good looking guy, or Quilty? Yeah, I know, probably the cutie, but maybe........

SFG Yes, I believe thats correct. I'd forgotten. Or didn't connect, or I've lost the few marbles I once possessed.

 

[Peder]

Okay, I'm laughing because I'm hoping for spoilers here!
The first mention of Q that I caught was when Charlotte suggested that HH go to her local dentist, a nephew or cousin of the playwright, I think she called him. Then, later, I read that the woman, Edusa (did Nabokov just leave off the 'M'?), knew that Q was a predator of young girls? Didn't I? The woman who spoke to them from her car as they were leaving on their last trip ? Saying what a shame it was to take Lolita away before the opening night of the play? Did she also know that Q would be the unseen companion to Lolita and HH on that entire road trip?

StillILearn,
You can add as many spoilers as you wish as far as I myself am concerned. I can use all the spoilers I can get, becuase I need all the help I can get. But those early mentions of the dentist & nephew are the earliest I can remember. Then the whole subject seems to go underground until it finally surfaces with a bang with Lolita's escape. Even though the thread seems to be there with microscopically visible allusions all along.

Is HH the only one who didn't know? (Aside from the gentle reader, of course.)

He may have been the only one, I'm getting to think. And us. I seem to remember discovering someplace that Mona Dahl even "knew all about Quilty." So it sounds to me like Lo was talking openly to her friends. And it was not like there was nothing to talk about either, but rather that it was the subject for full-fledged teenage (and steamy?) conversation. And, further, it was Mona Dahl who made the smart comment to Lo, after Lo mentioned that the sweater she was wearing was virgin wool. "It's the only thing about you that is, kiddo!"
At least that is the way Humbert says he heard it, but Lo of course says he mis-heard it. Heh!

I'm coming to believe that every time Nabokov says, "Of course you will have noticed" he is laughing at us.

What gives you that impression?

Peder