Vladimir Nabokov: Lolita

[pontalba]

Breaca I missed you again as well, and Peder you made quite a wonderful explanation, sounds like the party is continuing.

To answer your question Breaca one of the Lolita books we have been talking about is The Two Lolitas by Michael Maar. He does quite a rundown on whether or not VN, yes our very own VN actually plagurized the story for Lolita. It contains the other story, plus another of the German Guys short stories as well. Pah!

The other is Vladimir Nabokov's Lolita, a Casebook edited by Ellen Pifer
I quote from the back of the book:

Casebooks in Criticism offer analytical and interpretive frameworks for understanding key texts in world literature and film. Each casebook reprints documents relating to a work's historical context and reception. presents the best critical studies, and, when possible, features an interview with the author. Accessible and informative to scholars, students, and nonspecialist readers alike, the books in this series provide a wide range of critical and informative commentaries on major texts.

There are 10 essays in this book.

Peder Hmmm, putting the book under the pillow.....the obtaining of knowledge by osmosis......I love it.

 

[Peder]

Pontalba,
Many thanks for quote from back of Casebook.
I didn't even know that much about it.
Pretty bad when I haven't even read a back cover.
Peder

 

[pontalba]

And now, I too shall give up and sleep...listening to (I am sure you will appreciate this SIL, Jeremy. Maybe I'll bring the casebook upstairs, and read at least one more essay......lets see, I have the scales right here..............Jeremy, Essay, Jeremy, Essay....................right! Jeremy it is.

 

[pontalba]

Pontalba,
Many thanks for quote from back of Casebook.
I didn't even know that much about it.
Pretty bad when I haven't even read a back cover.
Peder

Well...lets face it, Lo's a pretty good sales person!
'night all

 

[Peder]

CU all tmw

 

[Peder]

To all
Well, now for the tedious task of saying something about the Maar book, "Two Lolitas."

The back cover describes Michael Maar as

"Germany's most gifted critic of the younger generation."

The front cover quotes John Banville as saying,

"Michael Maar is a fine literary sleuth and his discovery of what may be an Ur-Lolita means we will never again look on Nabokov's masterpiece in the old light."

Hate to disillusion him, but I'll be able to look at VN's masterpiece in the old light. Especially since Michael Maar is quite timid, it seems to me, in concluding what to make of his own findings.

Maar has apparently done quite a bit of leg-work and has assembled a fair number of similarities between Lichberg's and VN's Lolita's, both the stories and the little girls. In addition, he has gone further and found similarities between Lichberg and VN in another pair of their short stories.

He himself clearly believes that the similarities are too numerous, and their detailed likenesses much too specific, to be the result of mere coincidence.
But finally he refuses to plunge home the dagger.

"We should not deceive ourselves that clarity is to be had where more than enough cloudbanks remain...Only one thing is sure, this is the story of an ugly duckling and a proud swan. Heinz von Lichberg busied himself, in his Lolita, rather awkwardly, with linen, wood, paper and string. Vladimir Nabokov used similar materials. But out of them fashioned a kite that would vanish into the clear blue air of literature."

Elsewhere the author acknowledges there are two camps and each has an answer for whatever the other claims, so there is no last word.

I'll avail myself of that situation to note the author's metaphor that VN used the "same materials." He does not claim that VN took Lichberg's same kite and improved it into a much better one.

I'll also avail myself of the observation that if the author himself virtually concedes that nothing is proven, then I'll willingly accept his word for that.

An interesting observation for us in this forum, is that VN's interest in the Lolita theme can be discerned in his short stories, even earlier than The Enchanter.

"There are forerunners of Lolita in his work virtually from the start. In his short story, A Nursery Tale (1926), Nabokov had created a child-woman capable of turning the head of the hero..."

That's 13 years before The Enchanter and 25 years before Lolita!

And finally I would highlight Maar's recognition that

"Literature has always been a crucible in which familiar themes are continually recast....Nothing of what we admire in Lolita is to be found in the [Lichberg] tale; the former is in no way deducible from the latter. All of this needs no further explanation; it is self evident to anyone who can read."

So Maar phrases the question at issue downward to, "Did Nabokov consciously borrow and quote?"

I'll let the experts worry that bone. For me, Lolita still proceeds as the best of them all.

Peder

 

[StillILearn]

Whoo-hoo!

You're a genius, Peder! And, by the way, thank you and pontalba both for having saved me from buying The Two Lolitas. This means I can go on to Vera and finish with The Enchanter.

And now that I've learned how to do this we're all in big trouble.

"His genius, her loyalty, their love made a story that readers the world over will not soon forget." That was a difficult line for me to ignore. Stacy Schiff from Vera

Um. Svetlana was only sixteen when he fell in love with her, and apparently she almost broke his heart into a million little pieces. Might she have been the prototype for little Lo? I guess I'm about to find out. I've lost track of who's reading what. Have any of you already read Vera?

 

[StillILearn]

Here I sit, pondering in the stillness of life.... Just didn't want ya to think I was lurking without intent - actually as I don't have said literary marvels am just quietly taking it all in.

It's nice of you to check in, Breaca, just to let us know you're there.

 

[pontalba]

StillILearn Thanks for posting that great article. It answered one question I pondered last night, about the relationship between Stacy and Stephen Schiff.........none! Hah! Navel Lint indeed!

Even though I do not agree with The Two Lolitas train of thought, I still am glad to own the book. If I had not read it, it would have always been at the back of my mind....wondering. And I like to have the physical presence of the book near me. Just one of my "ticks". Ah, now the other, the Casebook is a different story, I firmly believe you would profit from owning that one. And btw SIL, I do have Vera in the stack.

Peder I agree with every word you wrote about The Two Lolitas Maar has indeed done a huge amount of research, and I found it interesting. I would like though to read more about Lichberg. Oh no! Another 'back of the mind' book to think about!

 

[Peder]

. Have any of you already read Vera?

Still,
Oh, Yes! You don't have to ask that question twice. I did Reading Lolita in Tehran, Lolita and Vera in sequence about a year ago or so. It is since then that I have branched out some.

Vera is a magnificent book! And I recommend it to people who want to find out more about Nabokov himself as well. He is so much a part of their joint life that it would be impossible to keep him out of the book and write only about her. It really is the biography of a very happy and eventful marriage and I can't imagine anyone not enjoying it. I am sure you will too.

Thanks for the thanks. I'm half amazed that you could follow my instructions if that is how you did learn to insert links. Let me rephrase that, I'm half amazed that my instructions could be followed by anyone to learn how to insert links. I once read people talking about how to do it on TBF and I thought it sounded much easier than that. But it works. And you found a magnificent first use in Vera.

Who's reading what? There's no telling what Pontalba is reading. j/k j/k, couldn't resist but I think she puts us all in the shade when it comes to non-stop reading.

For myself, I don't even know. Nothing right now, because of a diversion. But I imagine I'll get back to Speak Memory, maybe somehow in combination with Pifer's Casebook. And then, of course, I have been rereading Enchanter. Two Lolitas, however, is done for me forever, I think.

Speaking of which, just briefly again. Lichberg's Lolita is OK as a short story. It has unusual characters, an intriguing story line, mystery and suspense, and one definitely wants to keep reading to find out how it will all turn out. His other story Atomite is IMHO a piece of trash! It is nothing but a joke that one would tell around the water cooler, and not a very good joke at that. And being last in the book is why it definitely made me feel "I wuz robbed!"

But that was a digression. I'm actually waiting for your howling reaction in Vera to one the most jaw-dropping scenes I can imagine. Definitely in the category life-outdoes-fiction. And, ..... but I'll quit there. You'll get great enjoyment out of the book. And sadness at the end. All great books seem to have that too.

But first, Enchanter, Still!
In case you just happen to want to discuss it in a new forum
Peder

 

[Peder]

Peder I agree with every word you wrote about The Two Lolitas Maar has indeed done a huge amount of research, and I found it interesting. I would like though to read more about Lichberg. Oh no! Another 'back of the mind' book to think about!

Pontalba,,
Two Lolitas was certainly a quick course in what all the fuss was/is about! In that sense it was definitely worth it. But as for Lichberg, I don't know. For his authorship I see no reason for curiosity. But it is definitely odd how he was a part of history, there when it was all happening, even the narrator's voice heard yet today describing one of the momentous events of the age, and yet history forgot about him. Really odd.

It is like a Spring day here today, and I think I am de-compresing from all the reading. It feels like laziness is expanding to fill every bone in my body. But it is time for coffee so I guess I'll grab Speak Memory and take the walk up to town.

CUL
Peder

 

[pontalba]

Peder Jaw dropping scene?! Ya just had to put that in didn't ya?
I strongly suspect that Lichberg was far more interesting than has been let on. From what was said, he may have been at least a German agent, and possibly a double-agent. Re the last story, I haven't finished it yet, and may not. I think he wrote it as an inside joke. Period.

SIL Would that be what I am actually, actively reading, or what I have bookmarks in? But since Peder dropped that little bomb, I forsee another open book.

Grey, overcast, threatening rain........ewwwww. Good stay at home weather, only 67 degrees. Muggy in general.

 

[Peder]

Peder Jaw dropping scene?! Ya just had to put that in didn't ya?
But since Peder dropped that little bomb, I forsee another open book.
.

Pontalba,
Well, if you want the page numbers for the hot parts I'll post them. Under a black bar of course so that SIL can't find them
Pedr

 

[StillILearn]

Pontalba,
Well, if you want the page numbers for the hot parts I'll post them. Under a black bar of course so that SIL can't find them
Pedr

Hey!


...............

 

[StillILearn]

I have some photos in "My Pictures". I'll bet somebody here could explain to me how to post them ...

 

[Peder]

To all,
Musing about Maar's Two Lolitas, I realized there is yet another view of Lolita that might be of interest. We have mentioned archetypes, but this one hasn't come up in our dicussion.

Maar describes the scene in Alicante and the key to Lichberg's story thus

In the pension in Alicante hangs a drawing that seems to depict Lolita. The impression, however, is deceptive. It is Lola, the grandmother of Lolita's great-grandmother, who was 'strangled by her lovers after a quarrel a hundred years ago'!
Here is the solution of the mystery, and the crux of Lichberg's plot. Lolita is not just any enchanting young girl. She iis under a curse, and a demonic repetition compulsion.....Lolita's father explains ...what has happened since the Ur-Lolita drove her lovers mad, and paid for it by being murdered. Since then the women of the line would always have just one daughter, and then die insane a few weeks after the birth of her child. He predicts the death of his own daughter.....

Curse, demonism, repetition compulsion: these are undercurrents in the other Lolita also. Nabokov's child woman is also a revenant, the reincarnation of an earlier gamine sans merci. Annabel, his first love by the sea, burns desire for nymphets for ever into Humbert. She puts him under a spell that he can escape only by allowing her to rise again in Lolita....

Lolita is the 'immortal daemon disguised as a female child.' "

with that last quotation within the quote coming from VN's Lolita (p139).

So an 'immortal demon,' Maar would have us believe, and using VN's own words for the description!

That is something definitely novel that came out of purchasing the book!
If we can wrap our minds around that, then maybe John Banville's comment, about never again quite seeing Lolita in the old light, may come true.

Hmmm,
Another reread,
Peder
=====================[How I hope this does not double up!===========================

 

[Peder]

I have some photos in "My Pictures". I'll bet somebody here could explain to me how to post them ...

StillILearn,
I'm not so sure you can (or that it is within TBF policy). I think that every time I have seen the question come up, here and elsewhere, the answer has always been that photos have to be imported from the Net, not from one's machine, via a link from photobucket (name?) or some such photo-repository, where you first store them. Never tried it myself, so that info is in category of 'rumor.'
Asking in a more visible place on TBF will get you an answer faster, I'm sure.
Peder

 

[pontalba]

I would have to say 'bosh and nonsense'! VN gave lie to that particular theory himself. p.4 Lolita:

Mrs. "Richard F. Schiller" died in childbed, giving birth to a stillborn girl, on Christmas Day 1952, in Gray Star, a settlement in the remotest Northwest.

Didn't go insane after a couple of weeks, and the daughter of course did not reproduce.

 

[StillILearn]

Send all complaints to Ell:

I guess it coulda been smaller ... and I could have let it load completely. I know! I'll fix it! Where's the delete button? Later!

 

[Peder]

I would have to say 'bosh and nonsense'! VN gave lie to that particular theory himself. p.4 Lolita:

Didn't go insane after a couple of weeks, and the daughter of course did not reproduce.

Pontalba,
You noticed!
Little details like that don't seem to slow Maar down too much do they?
Peder