Vladimir Nabokov: Lolita

[StillILearn]

SIL,
The severity of your comments is certainly open to misinterpretation. I hope I have not done so by my response.
Peder

Heavenly days, Peder. I was just commenting that I thought that V&V maybe had a, well, you know, a sorta codependent relationship. The writing itself is still what it is.

 

[StillILearn]

Its good to admit when one is wrong....... /running as fast as I can/

Maybe there is another book that I should be reading? Speak, Memory, perhaps? In order to correct my skewed view of the two? I've only read Vera, after all ...

If I actually popped off too soon, I'll be the first to admit it.

Probably.

Maybe.

 

[Peder]

Maybe there is another book that I should be reading? Speak, Memory, perhaps? In order to correct my skewed view of the two? I've only read Vera, after all ...

If I actually popped off too soon, I'll be the first to admit it.

Probably.

Maybe.

Still,
My own view is on the other thread.
In short, you have seen Nabokov as you have. So?
Still friends,
Peder

 

[pontalba]

Maybe there is another book that I should be reading? Speak, Memory, perhaps? In order to correct my skewed view of the two? I've only read Vera, after all ...

If I actually popped off too soon, I'll be the first to admit it.

Probably.

Maybe.

I haven't gotten far enough into Speak Memory to really have an opinion...yet. However I will say that I like what I see so far. But there are also Brian Boyd's The Russian Years and The American Years. The writing style is easy to follow, even though I have only skimmed over a few parts.

 

[steffee]

It's the subject matter of Nabokov's books that bothers me a little. I don't want to sound like those who have never read Lolita, and yet "label" it as a work which condones pedophilia, or even celebrates it, as, having read it, I know it does nothing of the sort, and is, purely and simply (well maybe not "purely" or "simply") a love story. Lolita is on my "best read ever" list, and I am grateful to have had the pleasure of reading it. But then we come to The Enchanter, and Ada, both of which have similar concepts, and one or two others I haven't read yet.

Having read this article, here, and this piece I will quote, if that's okay...

And in another twist in the search for Lolita's origins, Australian author Joanne Morgan's Solving Nabokov's Lolita Riddle (Cosynch Press, 2005) is, by her own description, "a code-cracking book" that "proves that Nabokov wrote Lolita as a semi-autobiographical account of his own terrible sexual abuse as a boy at the hands of his molesting, pedophilic Uncle Ruka."

I get a feeling of apprehension, to say the least. It's one thing to read a story with "dodgy", controversial subject matter, it's quite another to be shown the intentions, and the experiences, behind the masterpeices. I think to read an author's work, and to be encaptured by his tales, sometimes a person feels as though they have an ineffable "knowledge" of them.

For a long time, since early childhood, I loved Alice's Adventures in Wonderland. Having read numerous 'biographical' articles on Lewis Carroll, I now no longer appreciate the story. It's dissimilar (unsimilar, asimilar?) in many ways to Nabokov, but...

I'm sorry StillILearn, if I might have gotten you into trouble

 

[pontalba]

Steffee Thats an interesting article, but the paragraphs after the one you quoted are a bit more explanatory. More from the same article, directly after the above quote:

The original of Lolita is not the story of a Hessian aristocrat, just as little as it is the memoir of an anonymous Ukrainian, or the author's improbable molestation at the fumbling hands of his uncle.

To search for the experiences leading to a work of art is as natural as not finding them. But ultimately, the original of Lolita is something we do not know and will never know, and is nothing other than the perfectly private movements of the mind of her creator.

Of course we don't know what (or if) anything happened as the other paragraph implies. However the latter paragraphs seem to preclude such an occurance don't they? Am I mis-intepreting?

 

[steffee]

Steffee Thats an interesting article, but the paragraphs after the one you quoted are a bit more explanatory. More from the same article, directly after the above quote:

Of course we don't know what (or if) anything happened as the other paragraph implies. However the latter paragraphs seem to preclude such an occurance don't they? Am I mis-intepreting?

No, you're right. I just don't really want to find out, either way

There's also the extensive "proof" that an author's first work is most definitely semi-autobiographical. I think that suggestion was in an article (or book) Peder once quoted (whose name I forget, again)... something with a C. initial. What was Nabokov's first work? All I can find is Mashen 'ka (sp.)

 

[pontalba]

I don't know Steffee, I am not sure which book or link you are talking about. But you know Nabokov wrote so much poetry before he ever wrote a novel that may be a moot point. In someone as creative and imaginative as he was who can ever tell?

 

[steffee]

I don't know Steffee, I am not sure which book or link you are talking about. But you know Nabokov wrote so much poetry before he ever wrote a novel that may be a moot point. In someone as creative and imaginative as he was who can ever tell?

Yes, you're right. He was a brilliant storyteller, I can't dispute that

 

[Peder]

I'm sorry StillILearn, if I might have gotten you into trouble

Steffee,

StillILearn is not in trouble, nor are you, for any thoughts you or she may have or express. It would pain me if you thought otherwise.
Please believe that,
Peder

 

[Peder]

For General Information

Dmitri Nabokov, son of Vladimir Nabokov, writing in the Christmas 2005 Issue of Playboy, said among other things,

It is a pity that the dead cannot sue the living for defamation and that idiocy is not a punishable crime......

I shall not dwell on an online Jo who maintains that Lolita is little more than a thinly coded chronicle of young Vladimir's molestation at the hands of a homosexual uncle. Jo deserves not a legal suit but a more appropriate garment such as a straitjacket.

Of course, one can say "Of course, of course, what else would he say?"
Of course.

He is in the unenviable position of having to try to swat down all the alligators who circle his father's great work and want 'a piece of the action.'

Peder

 

[steffee]

Dmitri Nabokov, son of Vladimir Nabokov, writing in the Christmas 2005 Issue of Playboy, said among other things,


Of course, one can say "Of course, of course, what else would he say?"
Of course.

He is in the unenviable position of having to try to swat down all the alligators who circle his father's great work and want 'a piece of the action.'

So you aren't going to read that then?

While we're on the subject of "cashing in"... Has anyone read, or heard of Lo's Diary by Pia Pera? It has somewhat uninviting reviews, but that makes it all the more appealing to me

Clicky for reviews

 

[Peder]

So you aren't going to read that then?

While we're on the subject of "cashing in"... Has anyone read, or heard of Lo's Diary by Pia Pera? It has somewhat uninviting reviews, but that makes it all the more appealing to me

Clicky for reviews

Steffee,
You mean the blog at your original link? That I read. Yes.
If you mean her book? No, I'm not going to be reading that. Not until it gets more respectable traction. My attitude is that I'll let the knowledgable and respected professionals sort things out first. I'm not a literary critic and I'm not qualified to critique someone's allegedly buttressed allegations. I would first wonder whether the publisher was a vanity press or not, though. I'm a hard one to convince.
Peder

 

[pontalba]

So you aren't going to read that then?

While we're on the subject of "cashing in"... Has anyone read, or heard of Lo's Diary by Pia Pera? It has somewhat uninviting reviews, but that makes it all the more appealing to me

Clicky for reviews

It was mentioned as well in your link Steffee. I saw it on the Amazon website, and was put off by the tone of the book. The author sounds like another parasite, as you say, "cashing in" on someone elses reputation and coattails. If thats all the imagination that author has, its a shame.

I confess to some curiousity though, why do the poor review whet your appitite?

 

[steffee]

Hmmm, I see the points of all those critics (and Dimitri Nabokov)...

Last link, I promise It's the 'apple' scene extracts from Lolita and from Lo's Diary

 

[steffee]

I confess to some curiousity though, why do the poor review whet your appitite?

I don't know, just sometimes books (and films, especially films) that have negative reviews are good. I guess the idea of a Lolita from the POV of Lolita, rather than Humbert the Horrible, sounds novel(?) to me.

I've recently read The Boy Who Loved Anne Frank, which I thought was good, at least up until the ending, and so I'm prepared to give authors like this a chance. Having read the excerpts though, I don't think so now, lol

 

[Peder]

While we're on the subject of "cashing in"... Has anyone read, or heard of Lo's Diary by Pia Pera? It has somewhat uninviting reviews, but that makes it all the more appealing to me

Clicky for reviews

Steffee,
Yes, Lo's Diary has been heard of in these parts (not bought or read by anyone that I know of), back when we were also noticing the Two Lolita's book (which I have read).

The idea has also been bruited about for a book called Humbert that would have Lo in the foreground telling the story, and Humbert in the background having to silently endure Lo's telling of the story.

In both cases the facts and situations are already available from Lolita (including the copyright problem), for embellishment or not, but the outcome seems to hinge on what thoughts and motivations one would put inside Lo's little head to make a readable and interesting story of it. How would one round out her view of the couch scene, for example? What she intended? What she saw? And what her reactions and degree of participation were? Why? Or even more basic, what would be her attituds toward sex? And that is exactly where Lo's Diary seems to fail, according to the reviews. One still needs to create a character.

However, The Complete Review was an interesting link that is now among my Faroites. NYT reviews are the ones I tend to go with. After that, the amazon Reader Reviews (not the publisher's blurbs!)

BTW did you ever get to look at Reckless?

Peder

 

[steffee]

NYT reviews are the ones I tend to go with. After that, the amazon Reader Reviews (not the publisher's blurbs!)

BTW did you ever get to look at Reckless?

Peder

I um... have forgotten what Reckless is entirely, and a skim of every page on this thread since page 100 hasn't helped me, not has googling. So, I'll just have to swallow and ask "please remind me again what Reckless is, it does sound very familiar"

I heard that Amazon (reader) reviews aren't very reputable. Amazon monitors reviews submitted and for certain works, a negative review would not be shown... it's got something to do with the money they make from publishers(?). Something like that, I could find my source, but even then it's not reputable.

Instead I use a fantastic reviewing site, for reviews on everything, called ciao, where I am a member and where users are paid (not a lot, pennies, but they're paid) to submit lengthy reviews. Alas, I don't think they have a US version.

(I have just worked out I can't spell review... in every one of the 12 I have up there, I put "ei" instead of "ie" and had to go back and change them)

 

[Peder]

I don't know, just sometimes books (and films, especially films) that have negative reviews are good. I guess the idea of a Lolita from the POV of Lolita, rather than Humbert the Horrible, sounds novel(?) to me.

Steffee,
Thanks for putting up that NYT link with the two apple scenes.
The second one just hurt the ears and sounded plain dumb. To read a whole book about a dull girl like that sounds like it would be unendurable. OMO.
But please feel free to put up links of interest, by all means.
I think a good book from the POV of Lolita would be fabulous! And would sell!
Peder

 

[Peder]

I um... have forgotten what Reckless is entirely, and a skim of every page on this thread since page 100 hasn't helped me, not has googling. So, I'll just have to swallow and ask "please remind me again what Reckless is, it does sound very familiar"

Steffee,
Sorry. I meant Closer with Natalie Portman. I have bigger problems than just ei's it seems
And I'm doubly sorry to send you though the whole thread. Oy.
Reckless was the TV series with Robson Green and Francesca Annis for a potential Charlotte Haze candidate. No relevance here.
Now I hope all of that is correct.
Peder