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Vladimir Nabokov: The Enchanter

Peder said:
Hoping (maybe against hope) that Freud and Nabokov will say something about it -- my principal reason for being interested in the book. But it's not here yet. (And it might only rehash all the ways that VN took potshots at SF, which is my worst expectation).

The notion that the pedophile thinks the child wants his/her advances, as mentioned by Irons, is totally new to me and contrary to anything I have ever heard. So I wonder where he got that idea? Which is why I called it a "strange" reason. But maybe that was his thespian interpretation of Lolita's interest/curiosity in Humbert and Humbert's reaction to her. Psychology a la thespian! :rolleyes:
Really curious to see how it sorts out,
If it ever sorts out, :confused:
Peder

As soon as you receive F&N scan it and see for sure. Hope you are right and it settles (as much as anyone can :rolleyes: ) the issue.

As far as what Irons said, I've read that before. Its part of the con. Now as to whether the pedophile is conning himself or thinks he is conning everyone else is another question. :(
 
Peder said:
Still,
Have no fear!
You are not ruined forever! I just read a Grisham novel. :D :eek:
Peder

Thank you for this readerly admission, Peder. I was quite enjoying Grisham's books until somebody kindly pointed out to me what a bad writer he was. :rolleyes: :D

I myself read every single Sue Grafton that comes alphabetizing its way down the pike. ;)
 
StillILearn said:
Thank you for this readerly admission, Peder. I was quite enjoying Grisham's books until somebody kindly pointed out to me what a bad writer he was. :rolleyes: :D

I myself read every single Sue Grafton that comes alphabetizing its way down the pike. ;)
Still,
In my sampling of his books, I thought The Pelican Brief the best and The Client the worst. The Broker is just sort of in between, a mindless page turner, with an absolutely horrible first chapter. :eek:
Your friend in crime, :)
Peder
 
Peder said:
Still,
In my sampling of his books, I thought The Pelican Brief the best and The Client the worst. The Broker is just sort of in between, a mindless page turner, with an absolutely horrible first chapter. :eek:
Your friend in crime, :)
Peder


Your thoughts are so spot on there peder and i agree with what you have written.The Pelican Brief was hes best by far.
I stopped reading his books after The Broker as i was so dissapointed in it.
ruby
 
ruby said:
Your thoughts are so spot on there peder and i agree with what you have written.The Pelican Brief was hes best by far.
I stopped reading his books after The Broker as i was so dissapointed in it.
ruby
Ruby,
It's so wonderful to hear from you and to know that you are listening in. As for being spot on, sometimes I'm so spot on I scare myself, :D. Other times .... wellllllllll ..... let's just say I feel ........ wellllllll ..... let's just forget it. :rolleyes: After all, even a stopped clock tells the right time twice a day. :)
The Broker probably does really deserve an award for the worst opening chapter ever written. It's definitely in the running. :eek:
Glad we agree on Grisham,
But more better that you're here :) :) :)
Peder
 
Good morning all, Ruby especially included :)

One stark difference between the Enchanter and Lolita that comes back to mind, again, is the difference between the two girls. And it's not only the difference in their reactions to the predator's advances. The bigger difference IMO is in how clearly they are seen.

The daughter in The Enchanter is clearly a normal 12-year old girl who skates, plays hop-scotch, bounces a bit as she sits on the bench having lunch, has a lively interest in the accident that occurs outside her window, and wants to sit up front to see what there is to be seen as they drive along. She also has two differences from Lolita that we much prefer to see in a child. Maybe only subliminally, but to me anyway she seems to know how to 'stay close' to her governess, but also definitely how to scream out loud when the situation demands it. Nabokov writes so many strange characters, that the daughter in Enchanter stands as proof that he can write 'normal' people as well and that his powers of observation are as acute there as they are for seeing the odder parts of life.

Lolita is obviously different, but especially in the two ways that drive the novel. She is not a girl to stay close to her parent -- anything but! And, as far as we can tell, even from Humbert's biased perspective, she never screamed -- although later she did run. In all the other ways, however, Nabokov presents her as a normal teenager too, or more likely, presents her as a parody of a normal teenager -- but normal, nevertheless.

But overarching even the major differences between the girls is the fact that one is clear cut and the other is so darn difficult to get a handle on. The daughter has the innocence of childhood, but how to describe Lolita? If she had simply been a wayward girl, willing and eager to have sex with a grown man and to run away with him across the countryside, Lolita would not be the story it is, and probably never would have made it past the censor. Instead, it seems to me that it is almost impossible to see Lolita clearly. It is that feature about her that is the greatest difference from the daughter, and the feature that makes Lolita the great novel it is. It is that elusive quality about her that has kept Lolita alive for fifty years, ever since she first stepped out of the pages and said 'hello' to an astonished public.

More about her over in the other thread,
Where she is still not clear, :)
Peder
 
StillILearn said:
Peder, you are priceless. :)
Still,
Well thank you, but I am just tellin the truth. tellin the truth :D Lolita is a story that one can turn over in one's mind, wonder about and see differently each time different details come to mind. It was also a help that I came across a wonderful paragraph that I am going to post over on the Lolita thread. You'll see. :)
Peder
 
Somewhere I read that one of the reasons Nabokov was not satisfied with The Enchanter was actually the girl. Or lack there of.
 
Pontalba,
That rings a bell!
So now, adding that one, there are three needles that I am looking for in the haystack(s). :confused:
Have an enjoyable tea, :D
Peder
 
pontalba said:
Somewhere I read that one of the reasons Nabokov was not satisfied with The Enchanter was actually the girl. Or lack there of.

Even though I've strayed off the path when it comes to my reading material, I am continuing to enjoy this thread so much.

I "jes love it" that we're able to digress as we have and then come back to the subject at hand. It feels like humans talking! Nobody's even yelling at us about our emoticons.

It's like heaven in here.

Oh! I almost forgot what I was going to say: "Fascinating information about VN's being dissatisfied with his original 'girl'. I'm all ears, pontalba"
 
The Cambridge Companion to Nabokov

In the Ellen Pifer ( ! ) essay on p.104-195 is the section I remembered regarding Nabokov's dissatisfaction with the daughter in The Enchanter. Partially as follows:
The complexity of Humbert's psycology and narrative voice is not found in Nabokov's earlier treatment of nymphet-obession, a 1939 novella composed in Russian under the title Volshebnik and posthumously translated into English as The Enchanter. Recounted in the third-person, the narrative tracks the main character's single-minded desire for a little girl until, his secret exposed by the screams of a waking child, he dashes into the street to meet his death. Here, in contrast to Lolita it is the protagonist, rather than the child's mother, who is run over by a hurtling car (En, 92,95). Dead before he can consumate his criminal lust, "the enchanter" is spared Humbert's remorse but also lacks his emotional range and depth. Nabokov, by his own account, "was not pleased" with this early effort, because, as he said in his afterwork to Lolita "the little girl wasn't alive. She hardly spoke"
That last quote of VN's was attributed to "On a Book Entitled Lolita"....which is probably where we remember it from to begin with.
 
SIL As soon as time permits, you've got to read Pnin! Same wonderful prose and some "traps", but not in the same genre as our previous reads. I'm 3/4ths of the way thru, and I love it.
I put Mary, Queen of Scotland back on the shelf for now.....but left my bookmark. ;)

And I'm really glad you are still following this thread. It is great isn't it? :D
 
pontalba said:
SIL As soon as time permits, you've got to read Pnin! Same wonderful prose and some "traps", but not in the same genre as our previous reads. I'm 3/4ths of the way thru, and I love it.
I put Mary, Queen of Scotland back on the shelf for now.....but left my bookmark. ;)

And I'm really glad you are still following this thread. It is great isn't it? :D


I will probably buy Pnin today when I go into town, if it's available. I am just so charmed by that quote at the bottom of your posts.

("dzeefeecooltsee" in Pninian English) with depalatization....." )
 
StillILearn said:
I will probably buy Pnin today when I go into town, if it's available. I am just so charmed by that quote at the bottom of your posts.

("dzeefeecooltsee" in Pninian English) with depalatization....." )


Yay! And if not there, Amazon is a wonderful and amazing process....:cool:
 
Pontalba,
Did I hear a hint in there someplace? :rolleyes:
But yes, Still, I too wish you luck! :)
Peder
 
Peder said:
Pontalba,
Did I hear a hint in there someplace? :rolleyes:
But yes, Still, I too wish you luck! :)
Peder
What on earth would make you think it was a hint?:rolleyes:

It was more on the order of a baseball bat!
or a crowbar to get her to click!

:p :D ;) :cool:
 
pontalba said:
What on earth would make you think it was a hint?:rolleyes:
Well, Pontalba,
It wasn't like it was in all-caps, bold and underlined, in size 5!
You were running the slight chance she might miss it. :eek:
Whereas me, just say buy it, I'll buy it! :D
That reminds me I have to check for F&N. /spirits rising/
In fact my 30% coupons are active today through the 26th and are burning a hole in my desk. Wonder how many I'll use? :rolleyes:
Peder
 
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