Defined by our job

[Wabbit]

Something that I read in a book, and also the "what is your occupation" thread had me thinking. The character in the book hates to be asked "what do you do?" and I hate that question too. It seems such a pointless question for me.

It seems to me that this question is a dinosaur. In the old days when people had a trade, and a job for life, and less leisure time people defined themselves by their job. You were a baker, or you were a engineer, or you worked the railroad, or you were a banker, and so on. Now these days you can't expect to be in the same job for life and are lucky to be in it for more than 5 to 10 years. Now we all have more leisure time. There are so many hobbies and interests that can be pursued and with the Internet a whole world of learning, communication, and self expression.

So why do you still feel the need to ask this question? I certainly am not defined by my job. My job is something I do to earn money. I go there. I come home again. That's the end of it. My job has nothing to do with who I am or what I think.

Why is this question still asked? Isn't it a pointless one? And before anybody says "it's polite conversation, and something to talk about" OK, granted, maybe it is! But there are lots of things you could say to make conversation that have some meaning, because I feel this one doesn't!

 

[honeydevil]

It seems to me that this question is a dinosaur. In the old days when people had a trade, and a job for life, and less leisure time people defined themselves by their job.

So why do you still feel the need to ask this question? I certainly am not defined by my job. My job is something I do to earn money. I go there. I come home again. That's the end of it. My job has nothing to do with who I am or what I think.

hi!! first of all, i think the people in the old times, you were talking about, didn't define THEMSELVES as baker..., the people outthere did it, and the people they lived after them, they did it, too!! this people didn't want to be JUST a banker...

and then yeah it is pointless, but then everything is pointless!! it is just another way to learn something about the person, who stands next to you, and some people have a job, to earn there money, but for example me, i don't want to spend 8 hours everyday doing something i hate, with people i hate...

 

[Wabbit]

hi!! first of all, i think the people in the old times, you were talking about, didn't define THEMSELVES as baker...:

I'm afraid you are wrong. That is just the point they DID define themselves as a baker or a banker. That's how it used to be. You had a trade and were proud of it.

and then yeah it is pointless, but then everything is pointless!! it is just another way to learn something about the person, who stands next to you, and some people have a job, to earn there money, but for example me, i don't want to spend 8 hours everyday doing something i hate, with people i hate...

Huh? There is a huge leap in your logic! That makes no sense at all. Where do you get if one thing is pointless then therefore everything is pointless?

It's pointless to laugh at rain. So your logic is that everything is pointless then? It's pointless to eat too? Of course everything is not pointless!!!! If I ask somebody what do they think about "whatever it is" that's not pointless. To me it IS pointless to learn about somebodies job because it's just not, at least to me, important for me.

It's not the question that really bothers me so much. Sure, some people can be interested to find that out. It's really that EVERYBODY slavishly asks this same question as if a robot.

 

[mojo]

I've got 2 jobs, one in a call centre, and one working part-time for a university doing paid research in literature. I hate the first one, and love the second one. I'm doing the second one because loving literature is part of whoI am, which means in part I can be defined by that job. The call centre one means nothing to me. Therefore surely it depends on the job and the person?

 

[novella]

Wabbit,

I wonder why you assume that someone asking this question would then define you by your job? That seems to me to be illogical. Sometimes interesting information and conversation results from this question--many people love to discuss their work. Some don't. I think it's clear right away which is the case.

If someone told me they were doing telemarketing, I would never assume that that was a lifestyle choice they wanted to be identified with. On the other hand, if someone is a career scientist or someone running their own business, I think they would be quite happy to discuss what they're working on and why.

Still, that would not limit them in my mind.

I think it's a fun, interesting question. Most people these days go through one or two major career changes, which to me are most exciting to discuss and find out why. This kind of change, to me, reveals a person's desires and interests and what they're willing to sacrifice for and want to learn about.

 

[Maya]

I don't look at it the way you do.
I don't work. But I'm studying to become something some day.
When I will go out to work, I'm pretty sure (and I hope) I won't do it just for the money's sake, because I'm not studying just for the sake of studying. I have an interest in what I'm studying, so I think that tells something about me. I'm studying so I can do what I like when I grow older, and hopefully also earn some money.
Maybe I'm naive..
I really think what you do is a part of your identity. Because you do choose on your own to do what you do, no one forces you.

On the other hand, I think I get what you mean. There are many foreign people, who come from other countries into Europe and have to scrub toilets and all, to earn money, when they actually have a top degree in one or other subject from their native country. If you asked those people what they do, sure it would tell something about them, but not ALL. I don't think their interest in their job would be other than getting money.

So, good thread, I hope someone else can contribute with something more clever than this, as those above have.

 

[Halo]

I understand what Wabbit is saying - I think some people do define you by your job. They ask what you do, then make assumptions about your personality, income and social class from what you say. Some jobs have stereotypes about the people who do them such as nurses, librarians, merchant bankers (even got its own rhyming slang!) etc. Sometimes it can be quite difficult not to make assumptions. For example, if you are introduced to two people and one is a checkout operator and one is a head teacher, I think a lot of people would certainly make assumptions about these people's respective intelligence levels. Of course, these assumptions might well be wrong, but it still happens.

 

[jenn]

i think we open with that question in the same way we all reply to how are you, with fine. it's polite, it's a starter whatever. more and more i hear , what do you do? as opposed to where do you work. as i think there is more variety in what people are doing to pass their days and or earn their keep.

i know for certain that when i meet a new person, that is a safe way to open dialogue. other issues marriage, partener, kids, all seem to personal initially, and are best brought up naturally within the conversation.

i guess, unless you are meeting someone within a specific context, same class, a store, a group etc. it is hard to come up with an opener.

ie: public washroom "hi poop here often?"
restaurant " have you ever gotten food poisoning here before"
gym "so how fat were you before?"
party " ever nailed the hostess?"


i don't think it is a pointless question, because now i know that you, silly wabbit, are not someone who loves their job, it is a means to an end, and so at the cocktail party where i have just asked you what you do, and you thusly replied, i would then have an opening, a crack to peek through and go ok, so what does float your boat, to which you would inevitably reply..........

*god save me if you say penguins*

 

[honeydevil]

Huh? There is a huge leap in your logic! That makes no sense at all. Where do you get if one thing is pointless then therefore everything is pointless?

It's pointless to laugh at rain. So your logic is that everything is pointless then? It's pointless to eat too? Of course everything is not pointless!!!! If I ask somebody what do they think about "whatever it is" that's not pointless. To me it IS pointless to learn about somebodies job because it's just not, at least to me, important for me.

It's not the question that really bothers me so much. Sure, some people can be interested to find that out. It's really that EVERYBODY slavishly asks this same question as if a robot.

no what i mean is, for every person something else is pointless!! for some people it is the question about your job, for some people it is their nationality or their name...
many things have nothing to do with your personality!! what says a name about you?? nothing, and still we ask!! that with your job, if you just do it to earn your money, that's okay, it is a part of you, it tells me that you don't like it, but it tells nothing else about you...
why do we have to have a picture for every person we meet?? why do we have to prejudge people we never even met?? why?? there are too much why's out there to find an answer that answers all the questions, just be thankful for everthing you can get and everything what other people tell you!! if they don't want to tell you what they do for a living, fine, they don't have to!!

 

[Libra6Poe]

Well, I'm still in school. I'm studying to be an English teacher/writer... I know in the future, I'll still be me (a smarter me) and I'll always be more than just a teacher/writer... but I wouldn't mind having others define me by my career...

Teachers in the US don't make a lot of money... and for someone to choose to become a teacher says something.. ya know? ::shrug::

 

[Ashlea]

It easy to say something is "just a job," but I think anything you do for 8 hours a day changes your outlook in some way. And there is always some choice involved in how you got to that job, so that tells something about you. Granted, it isn't a full picture anymore, but it is a starting point. It's like looking at someone's bookshelves, I make assumptions about them based upon what they read, but I know that isn't their entire life.

I do hate that so many people are just looking to categorize someone by their income level - it kills me when one of my friends say they wouldn't date someone b/c he is just a _____________________. If they're a good person, who cares? If money is so important, find a well paying job and make it yourself, you know?

 

[Halo]

Teachers in the US don't make a lot of money...

Teachers in the UK don't make a lot of money either.

 

[Libra6Poe]

hehe, yeah, I figured as much... I assumed it was like that everywhere but I wasn't totally sure so i didn't want to say anything.

 

[Wabbit]

i
i don't think it is a pointless question, because now i know that you, silly wabbit, are not someone who loves their job, it is a means to an end, and so at the cocktail party where i have just asked you what you do, and you thusly replied, i would then have an opening, a crack to peek through and go ok, so what does float your boat, to which you would inevitably reply..........

*god save me if you say penguins*

And see... that is where you are wrong! You made an assumption. In fact I don't hate my job. I quite like it where I am and wouldnt change unless my life priorities changed. It's relaxed and we have a lot of fun there!

As Halo, ( put it so well ) said people do tend to judge you by the work that you do. There are so many interesting questions that you could ask somebody... what do you do is the least of them and the least of who I am.

no what i mean is, for every person something else is pointless!! for some people it is the question about your job, for some people it is their nationality or their name...
many things have nothing to do with your personality!! what says a name about you?? nothing, and still we ask!! that with your job, if you just do it to earn your money, that's okay, it is a part of you, it tells me that you don't like it, but it tells nothing else about you...
why do we have to have a picture for every person we meet?? why do we have to prejudge people we never even met?? why?? there are too much why's out there to find an answer that answers all the questions, just be thankful for everthing you can get and everything what other people tell you!! if they don't want to tell you what they do for a living, fine, they don't have to!!

Ah, see! That is my point too! My must we judge people?


OK, I think most of you are not understanding what I am meaning. This is because I explain my thoughts so badly!

My point is why is it so important? Years ago, yes people defined themselves by the job that they did. Now we don't have that sort of system. Yet, whenever you meet somebody the question of "what do you do" will be in the very first things they ask you. Why? It's a form of judgement for one and for second of all the questions that you could ask somebody that tells you very little about who the person is. Why not ask in the first few questions when you meet somebody new "What do you like to do?" or "Do you have any hobby?" Isn't that better than "what is your work?"

 

[novella]

Years ago, yes people defined themselves by the job that they did. Now we don't have that sort of system.

Years ago it was considered extremely rude to ask someone what they did for a living. It was the equivalent of asking how much money they make.

"Polite" conversation was always restricted to airy topics like the weather and other pleasantries of no consequence.

Would a gentleman's son who was bankrupt and working as a clerk define himself as a clerk or a gentleman's son? Definitely the latter. Because of the class system in place, the way one defined oneself was always about your upbringing and education, not about the commerce you were forced to deal with.

A miner's son is always a miner's son until he is educated, upon which he is a gentleman.

If anything, defining yourself by the work you do all day is a relatively modern development.

 

[Wabbit]

Hmmmm, you make some good points.

Well, still... I do think that it's rather pointless to ask about what you do for a living and that people attach importance and judgment to it.

Anyway, I would never ask about such pointless things as the weather. I don't do "small talk" for me it's pointless. I guess I am just being odd. I normally see things differently to most people

 

[Jenem]

i think, like any personal question, one should take the answer lightly. although you can learn something about a person from their job (even if that person is only doing a job because of the money), the job doesn't DEFINE the individual.

of course, i believe the question is mostly just polite conversation- anyone who "judges" anyone else strictly on the answer (be it to assess intelligence or financial situation) is stuck in the dark ages.

 

[novella]

I just had a really scary thought.

If I defined George W. Bush by his profession, I would have to think of him as The President, rather than as a conniving illiterate horsetrader who wormed his way into power by virtue of his birth.

 

[Wabbit]

very true! But I think that quite a lot of people do. I tend to have a cynical view of humanity so maybe that's just my warped perspective at work!

And good to see you around again!

 

[novella]

I don't wanna work in a hotdog stand
Be a busboy, messenger or a doorman
It's an abstract world, I'm an abstract man
Abstract city don't give a damn.

--The Ramones