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marriage

Love and lust are easily confused until children become part of the equation. After that you're either a good parent or a drunken tart.

Just comenting from my own point of view.
 
Billy Oblivion said:
Love and lust are easily confused until children become part of the equation. After that you're either a good parent or a drunken tart.

Just comenting from my own point of view.
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so which are you?
 
if everything is great, then it's fairly easy to be certain that there is no problem. pleasure makes a person indifferent. the problem only becomes apparent once pain is involved. I have absolutely no way of knowing if this applies to you, ell, but it seems to apply to most of the earth's population. they only feel compassion for a select few individuals, and, even then, it's all self-satisfying. once the other person loses interest, that love turns to loneliness. that's all I was trying to communicate.

Ell said:
I'm quite certain I'm not confused with love and security.
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bobbyburns said:
if everything is great, then it's fairly easy to be certain that there is no problem. pleasure makes a person indifferent. the problem only becomes apparent once pain is involved. I have absolutely no way of knowing if this applies to you, ell, but it seems to apply to most of the earth's population. they only feel compassion for a select few individuals, and, even then, it's all self-satisfying. once the other person loses interest, that love turns to loneliness. that's all I was trying to communicate.
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I'm not sure what you're saying.

From my own perspective, there has been as much pain as one would expect from a 32 year marriage (35 yr relationship). There's no way two people can have a good relationship over the long-term without conflict and a certain amount of pain. All too often, people delude themselves and others by pretending there is no conflict, when in fact they are just ignoring it. They go along as though everything is perfect when underneath the facade there is a lot of seething resentment (Jenn, I think that's where you see couples of 10, 20, 30 yrs who apparently split out of the blue). Couples who claim they never disagree or argue are the ones in trouble.

As for compassion, I'm not sure where you're coming from as it applies to marriage, bobby. However, in general, I feel one's compassion should apply to all - it can't or at least shouldn't be selective. I, naive as it sounds (and I've been accused of this many-a-time by my sons), believe in the old adage about not judging others, lest ye be judged.
 
the point is not to resist pain, but to acknowledge it and let thought see that there is nothing to fight against. how many people honestly do that, though? to us, pain is why conflict exists. if a gun is pointed to your head, and there's nothing you can do to stop the trigger from being pulled, you'll still resist it psychologically. that's how the mind is programmed. thought sees a problem it can't fix, so it grinds against it. in relationships, people talk about resolving an issue and forgiving each other, but a problem only exists insomuch as there is something being pushed away. knowing that the gun might go off, some choose to fight it, while others, like you said, choose to ignore it. but some people are fine with it, not because they think it's a good thing, but because they know that security is just an illusion, and that love has nothing to do with whether people hurt you or make you feel good, because it is an absolutely selfless state. in other words, there's no such thing as problems, just a temporary loss of perspective.

Ell said:
There's no way two people can have a good relationship over the long-term without conflict and a certain amount of pain. All too often, people delude themselves and others by pretending there is no conflict, when in fact they are just ignoring it. They go along as though everything is perfect when underneath the facade there is a lot of seething resentment.
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bobbyburns said:
that security is just an illusion,
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I honestly hated to listen to anything like this. ermm, well, ......


By the way, enjoyed reading this thread. I myself didnot have much to say, 'cause I might have too much illusions about this. :p

* Ell, you triggered some strange feeling in me. and Ritalin, I liked your comment as well. Thanks everyone for your input.
 
bobbyburns said:
the point is not to resist pain, but to acknowledge it and let thought see that there is nothing to fight against. how many people honestly do that, though? to us, pain is why conflict exists. if a gun is pointed to your head, and there's nothing you can do to stop the trigger from being pulled, you'll still resist it psychologically. that's how the mind is programmed. thought sees a problem it can't fix, so it grinds against it. in relationships, people talk about resolving an issue and forgiving each other, but a problem only exists insomuch as there is something being pushed away. knowing that the gun might go off, some choose to fight it, while others, like you said, choose to ignore it. but some people are fine with it, not because they think it's a good thing, but because they know that security is just an illusion, and that love has nothing to do with whether people hurt you or make you feel good, because it is an absolutely selfless state. in other words, there's no such thing as problems, just a temporary loss of perspective.
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I get the feeling that you're not really having a discussion so much as espousing your esoteric views. But to give you the benefit of the doubt, I'll continue.

I'm not into denying pain. Pain, whether physical or emotional, is an inevitable part of life and thus marriage.

You say "a problem only exists insomuch as there is something being pushed away . . . there's no such thing as problems, just a temporary loss of perspective" - What the H?

How about something more concrete: Husband says to wife let's meet for dinner at 5:45. Wife, being distracted by kids, noise, etc. hears 5. She arrives at restaurant promptly at 5. Husband is running a bit late and arrives at 6. She's upset that she's waited an hour. He doesn't see a problem because he's only 15 minutes late and is getting mad at her for being unreasonable. Should they just 'accept the pain' of their anger, let it simmer and fester into other areas of their relationship; or discuss the situation, realize it was a misunderstanding and resolve to clarify things better next time? This is resolving conflict. Nothing magical, nothing to do with love - just a desire to relate one-to-one in a practical sense.

You keep mentioning security and love. I've never equated the two. Security is fleeting or, as you say, an illusion (aren't those lyrics to a song?). There are no guarantees in life, which is what makes love such a wonderful thing. I agree with you that real love is selfless - no strings, no expectations, it just is.
 
cajunmama said:
The most important question you need to ask yourself is not, "do I want to live with this person for the rest of my life?" It is "Do I want to take care of this person for the rest of my life?"
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Very well said!!! Couldnt have put it better. :)
 
I just want to pass a general comment.
Why do people (including myself) expect to be happy all the time? If wife gets upset, or husband is angry or both are fighting, why is it seen as a bad sign? Why cant we accept it as a healthy sign and say that the relationship is growing?
I personally feel that a relationship grows stronger with arguments. I say arguments not fights . But, my husband doesnt seem to think so.
If my mood is down after coming back from work, he gets really upset. Why cant he accept it as a part of life and say 'It happens?' and move on.
Why do we all want to be happy ALL the time? Imagine -- if we were indeed happy all the time, we wouldnt understand the essence of it, right?
We should have pain to appreciate being happy! If people are arguing in a relationship - let them argue, they will come out as new people who understand each other even better. Only thing is the argument should be logical and mature. And thats where people differ I think.
 
I agree. We need 'unhappiness' to truly enjoy 'happiness'.

"For every action, there is an equal and opposite reaction" Newton

Yin and Yang. Good and Evil.
 
sanyuja said:
Why do people (including myself) expect to be happy all the time? If wife gets upset, or husband is angry or both are fighting, why is it seen as a bad sign? Why cant we accept it as a healthy sign and say that the relationship is growing?

If people are arguing in a relationship - let them argue, they will come out as new people who understand each other even better. Only thing is the argument should be logical and mature. And thats where people differ I think.
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This is something I was trying to express in my poem, We Shape the Road . ., which was written as my contribution to this thread.

Something that happened over time, that our shared life is more to us than our two lives apart. Mutuality, not two self-centered lives in conflict or agreement, but two lives that are as one, at both a practical level and a spiritual one.
 
sanyuja said:
Why do people (including myself) expect to be happy all the time? If wife gets upset, or husband is angry or both are fighting, why is it seen as a bad sign?

If my mood is down after coming back from work, he gets really upset. Why cant he accept it as a part of life and say 'It happens?' and move on.
.
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i am very guilty of this. i always feel like if my husband is in a bad mood i have to fix it, but when he does it to me, i get pissed off. i just want to stew a bit, be left alone. i think we feel that in a marriage we have to be the other persons"everything" lover, confidant, friend, advisor, entertainer, entertainee. we take the responsilbilty for the others happiness when really it has nothing to do with us. the hard part for me is knowing when to step in and when to back off. we have been married 8 years and together for like 11, and we are still working this out. i don't think we will ever get it down perfect as we are always changing as individuals but it is important to never stop trying, regardless of how mind numbingly frustrating it can get. i am a big fan of a third opinion, even if it from a book or column. seeing a problem through fresh eyes always helps me.
 
"i am a big fan of a third opinion"

Anything we can help you with Jenn???? :D

There's no shortage of opinion here.
 
Let me ask you more experienced people a question. I see all the time that one of the most important issues in a relationship is religion. Despite being raised as a conservative Christian, recently I've rejected my faith. This really bothers my girlfriend because she is still a Christian (although not devout); she questions a lot of the Christian writings. I'm a little confused because she told me she doesn't believe in hell, but still thinks that faith plays a part in the afterlife. :confused: This is a rather recent development. How do you see this affecting our relationship?
 
Motokid said:
"i am a big fan of a third opinion"

Anything we can help you with Jenn???? :D

There's no shortage of opinion here.
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hahaha no i am good for now. i will let you know if i need any marriage counselling from the forum. next fight i will post for debate purposes. promise. :D
 
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