Vladimir Nabokov: Lolita

[Peder]

Lo in Desolation

I would guess there is not the least doubt in anyone's minds why Lo should want to get away from Humbert. Only maybe half a million reasons, plus maybe some hundreds more in light of StillILearn's post. However, I came across two scenes that I hadn't recalled, but which show her desolation so poignantly, that I thought I'd share them here. Unfurl you rhankies, because here they come!

Pg 283:
"There was the day when having withdrawn the functional promise I had made her on the eve (whatever she had set her funny little heart on -- a roller rink with some special plastic floor or a movie matinee to which she wanted to go alone), I happened to glimpse from the bathroom, through a chance combination of mirror aslant and door ajar, a look on her face .. that look I cannot describe exactly ... an expression of helplessnes so perfect ... because this was the very limit of injustice and frustration"

Pp 285-286
"Once when Avis's father had honked outside to signal papa had come to take his pet home, I felt obliged to invite hiim into the parlor....Lolita always had an absolutely enchanting smile for strangers....Suddenly as Avis clung to her father's neck and ear while, with a casual arm, the man enveloped his lumpy and large offspring, I saw Lolita's smile lose all its light and become a frozen shadow of itself ..... Avis who had such a wonderful fat pink dad and a small cubby brother, and a brand new baby sister, and a home, and two grinning dogs, and Lolita had nothing."

Small wonder then that Humbert could say later that Lolita would prefer marriage to what he could give her, even if it were the the worst marriage imaginable.

Small wonder likewise that she would prefer freedom to the utterly hopeless existence he caused her to have.


Peder

 

[pontalba]

{Maybe in the face of what you said, the question is why we read such a book? Yes, I know, literature, and humor and all that, but there has to be a deeper reason, and I don't mean a deeper darker subliminally criminal perverted reason. Just a real reason why the book is attractive to (some of) us.}


Perhaps simply to be able to say........There, but for the Grace of God, go I...

 

[steffee]

May I join in?

I just found you lot today but it just so happens I am on reading Lolita anyway, mainly so I could read Lolita in Tehran next...

 

[SFG75]

I would guess there is not the least doubt in anyone's minds why Lo should want to get away from Humbert. Only maybe half a million reasons, plus maybe some hundreds more in light of StillILearn's post. However, I came across two scenes that I hadn't recalled, but which show her desolation so poignantly, that I thought I'd share them here. Unfurl you rhankies, because here they come!

Pg 283:
"There was the day when having withdrawn the functional promise I had made her on the eve (whatever she had set her funny little heart on -- a roller rink with some special plastic floor or a movie matinee to which she wanted to go alone), I happened to glimpse from the bathroom, through a chance combination of mirror aslant and door ajar, a look on her face .. that look I cannot describe exactly ... an expression of helplessnes so perfect ... because this was the very limit of injustice and frustration"

Pp 285-286
"Once when Avis's father had honked outside to signal papa had come to take his pet home, I felt obliged to invite hiim into the parlor....Lolita always had an absolutely enchanting smile for strangers....Suddenly as Avis clung to her father's neck and ear while, with a casual arm, the man enveloped his lumpy and large offspring, I saw Lolita's smile lose all its light and become a frozen shadow of itself ..... Avis who had such a wonderful fat pink dad and a small cubby brother, and a brand new baby sister, and a home, and two grinning dogs, and Lolita had nothing."

Small wonder then that Humbert could say later that Lolita would prefer marriage to what he could give her, even if it were the the worst marriage imaginable.

Small wonder likewise that she would prefer freedom to the utterly hopeless existence he caused her to have.


Peder

This really goes well with Pontalba's observation that:

Peder
To a child that has been smothered, freedom is of paramount importance. And to Lolita evidently it almost was more important than "performing" for Que. (and thanks )

Would it be fair to say that Quilty at his worst was a better option for Lo than H.H. at his best? Yes, Quilty is not any better and he's certainly a scumbag right up there with H.H., does H. not say that they are both twins? With that being said, it's obvious that Lo preferred Quilty, though his evilness didn't uncover itself until later.

 

[Peder]

May I join in?

I just found you lot today but it just so happens I am on reading Lolita anyway, mainly so I could read Lolita in Tehran next...

steffee,
May you join in? Of course, of course you may join in! Without even asking. We are more than overjoyed to have you, I think we will all say.
So what do you think of the book? And where are you in it? And so on, and on. We're a talky bunch in here, so don't hold back.
Glad you're here,
Peder

 

[SFG75]

May I join in?

I just found you lot today but it just so happens I am on reading Lolita anyway, mainly so I could read Lolita in Tehran next...

By all means...join in!. It never hurts to have another person to explain to us flat-headed simians, what Peder posts about.

 

[Peder]

By all means...join in!. It never hurts to have another person to explain to us flat-headed simians, what Peder posts about.

/spurting coffee all over the screen and wiping chin/
SFG!
Oh, pshaw! Now you protest too much! If you were as you say, then you woukd never be able to understand what pontalba patiently points out to both of us of the lesser gender.
Now where was I?

Peder

 

[pontalba]

May I join in?

I just found you lot today but it just so happens I am on reading Lolita anyway, mainly so I could read Lolita in Tehran next...

Please! Fresh perspectives welcome always, so come on in and get a cup of that wonderful coffee.
Now Peder if you have finished cleaning your screen you can lose that "lesser gender" routine (as true as it might be ) and listen.

And as for you SFG flat headed simians? OY!

So, steffee, welcome!

 

[pontalba]

SFG
To compare and try to figure out which was worse, HH or Que is akin to asking whether one would prefer to be eaten by a lion or a tiger.

Six to a half dozen of the other. Although, in the end, down the line, I think I consider Que slightly worse, as he would have stolen the freedom he pretended to offer, and enslaved her even deeper than HH could have ever managed. Not to mention various diseases etc. Ewww

 

[steffee]

steffee,
May you join in? Of course, of course you may join in! Without even asking. We are more than overjoyed to have you, I think we will all say.
So what do you think of the book? And where are you in it? And so on, and on. We're a talky bunch in here, so don't hold back.
Glad you're here,
Peder

Thanks you (both) for the kind welcome!
I haven't gotten very far so far I'm afraid... Chapter 6, but I'm finding it entertaining and much less 'heavy' than I previously imagined. I have just been introduced to the meaning of a 'nymphet' and 'nympholept' and the differences (legally that is) between 'girl-child', 'young person' and 'wayward child', and of course 'girleen'. It is all very interesting and I love the language, the imagery, everything. I think it's going to be a good read (assuring I've got a dictionary to hand) and I can't wait to read what others have to say/said about it.

"a talky bunch" lol, I like it!

 

[Peder]

Would it be fair to say that Quilty at his worst was a better option for Lo than H.H. at his best? Yes, Quilty is not any better and he's certainly a scumbag right up there with H.H., does H. not say that they are both twins? With that being said, it's obvious that Lo preferred Quilty, though his evilness didn't uncover itself until later.

SFG.
You see?! I'm going to defer to pontalba on that one. I can't even begin to compute the answer to that question I have such a low view of Quilty.

But if I have to say it /typing slowly/, yes, Lo saw the better part of Quilty before she saw the worse part. And she only saw the worse part of Humbert ...... although now that I type that, I'm not so sure. It's sort of like "I mean." Because she did say he was a good father to her "she guessed." Which is an issue I have challenged myself to resolve, without going throiugh those yards and yards of posts like the last time.

But I now wonder if Humbert, at his debatably reformed best, would have been able to control his obsession/passion and been nice to Lo, meaning a legitimized relation, freedom and no sex. Previous experience suggests not. So I suppose that Humbert at his best might still not have been any good for Lo. Hrmph. Which is taking a hard hearted view of it. Drat, is what I feel like saying, because I prefer to seek out any evidence of redemption in 'bad' characters.

Scratching/shaking head,
And pondering,
Peder

 

[Peder]

I have just been introduced to the meaning of a 'nymphet' and 'nympholept' and the differences (legally that is) between 'girl-child', 'young person' and 'wayward child', and of course 'girleen'. It is all very interesting and I love the language, the imagery, everything. I think it's going to be a good read (assuring I've got a dictionary to hand) and I can't wait to read what others have to say/said about it.

steffee,
Well yay! If you have made it that far and through all that, then you''ll stick. And already you have reminded one of us of something they forgot, "girleen." What a word! Only Nabokov .....
Peder

 

[pontalba]

Peder

Ah! However if you will recall, Lo had quite a crush on HH to begin with, even to scrawling his initials on that poster. The bloom was off the (HH) rose, she saw and knew him for just what he was. By the time he found her married, some of the hurt he'd inflicted had subsided. No, I don't mean gone, that would have never left her, but it was covered over somewhat by her marriage, and lets face it pregnancy does either one of two things to a woman, either makes her more nervous and touchy, or it mellows. In Lolita's case it evidently mellowed her enough to see that he had protected her, at least from others.

As for his obsession, he would NEVER have been able to overcome it!

 

[Peder]

Pontalba

... or it mellows. In Lolita's case it evidently mellowed her enough to see that he had protected her, at least from others.

I'm glad that she at least recognized that, because I think it was part of the background for her "father" remark. And there is one scene where I can remember his being very tender toward her. And many other scenes where he 'took care' of her wants. Fed her, clothed her, bought goopy sweet ice cream sodas, teen-age magazines, etc for her.

As for his obsession, he would NEVER have been able to overcome it!

Yes, yes and absolutely yes! You are right as far as I have ever read. No disagreement there. I wonder if Nabokov viewed it that way? Although it really doesn't come into the story, except by not being there. But, come to think of it, just now, there are now chemicals to eliminate the urge. So I wonder...

But still,
Quilty: evil!
Humbert: no good!
Peder

 

[SFG75]

Thanks you (both) for the kind welcome!
I haven't gotten very far so far I'm afraid... Chapter 6, but I'm finding it entertaining and much less 'heavy' than I previously imagined. I have just been introduced to the meaning of a 'nymphet' and 'nympholept' and the differences (legally that is) between 'girl-child', 'young person' and 'wayward child', and of course 'girleen'. It is all very interesting and I love the language, the imagery, everything. I think it's going to be a good read (assuring I've got a dictionary to hand) and I can't wait to read what others have to say/said about it.

"a talky bunch" lol, I like it!

Interesting aspect of chapter 6, the very beginning of it is clearly answered on the very last page as Pontalba points out-with H.H. in the snowy field hearing children's voices. Compare that passage to this:

A propos: I have often wondered what became of those nymphets later? In this wrought-iron world of criss-cross cause and effect, could it be that the hidden throb I stole from them did not affect their future? I had possessed her-and she never knew it. All right. But would it not tell sometime later? Had I not somehow tampered with her fate by involving her image in my voluptas? Oh, it was, and remains, a source of great and terrible wonder.

Ahhh, H.H. having a pang of conscience regarding how he affects others?...could it be?...... A source of great and terrible wonder for him? While he worried about his thoughts and the influence of it upon the girls, certainly if he was sincerely concerend about them and was so struck by this feeling, he would've been able to cool his heels with Lo. Very interesting that the problem that he feared he would cause to others, actually became the problem that he caused to Lo!.

 

[pontalba]

SFG Recall that he originally planned to, errrr, 'possess' Lolita in such a way that both she and her mother would be ignorant of the fact. So, in the beginning that was his plan. Of course Charlotte's death threw that intention out of the window.

Good intentions and all that.........

 

[pontalba]

Peder Nabokov could not have projected it so strongly if he did not believe the character to be thus. IMHO

 

[StillILearn]

May I join in?

I just found you lot today but it just so happens I am on reading Lolita anyway, mainly so I could read Lolita in Tehran next...

Welcome, steffee!

I'm just about getting ready to singlehandedly try, sentence and hang Humbert Humbert, so if you're feeling shy about possible spoilers, there are other safer threads around here that you can find by using the search function.

I have already read Reading Lolita in Tehran (phew -- try saying that three times) and am gettng ready to read it again right now, so we are almost on the same page, so to speak.

 

[StillILearn]

SFG Recall that he originally planned to, errrr, 'possess' Lolita in such a way that both she and her mother would be ignorant of the fact. So, in the beginning that was his plan. Of course Charlotte's death threw that intention out of the window.

Good intentions and all that.........

Good intentions? Good grief! He planned to disable them (which he did, one way or another).

pontalba, you are much too forgiving of this madman/monster!

 

[StillILearn]

So, maybe I can ask, like a wag, "Do you think you'll read it a third time?"
If so, why? Seriously. If not, I can guess why.

I know that I'll read it again. I'll also read everything else that I can lay my hands on that was written by Nabovkov. I'm hooked.

(I'm mad at HH, not at N.)