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Vladimir Nabokov: Lolita

Peder wrote:

I'm not sure whether to call that manipulative or controlling.
He had her in a cage so to speak by limiting her physical freedom.
But in return she had the better of him psychologically, and used that leverage to keep him in place. That she was ruthless in twisting the knife (throwing the words incest and rape at him), and didn't care at all about the sex, must have reinforced the idea to him that she had him. And that he was in the proverbial position of having a tiger by the tail.
Eventually the tables turned and she got the better of him.
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Peder, I think you may have just wrapped it all up in your above post. Even I (HH's actual, real-life archenemy) have to admit to the fairness of your summation. Lo does not get off scot-free after all. :cool:

So -- tell us -- what is it that you do in real life? Hm???????????????? You're far too good at this kind of thing to be a mere dilettante. ;)
 
pontalba said:
The thing with life is that its all a series of prisons in a broad sense. We just have to get into one that we don't want to slip the bars. :)
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PONTALBA said:
Good conversation priceless.
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Oh, Pontalba,
When you have a good night's sleep, you are good !

That first one caused a triple take! And now I am sitting here barefoot. You knocked my socks right off. :eek:

And the second, ROTFALMAO!

Think, I'll sign off while I'm only 'way behind. :) :)
Peder
 
Peder said:
Think, I'll sign off while I'm only 'way behind. :) :)
Peder
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Honey Chile, that'll be the day I hang up my sword!

In Other Words...............ain'ta gonna happen.;)
 
StillILearn said:
Peder wrote:



Peder, I think you may have just wrapped it all up in your above post. Even I (HH's actual, real-life archenemy) have to admit to the fairness of your summation. Lo does not get off scot-free after all. :cool:

So -- tell us -- what is it that you do in real life? Hm???????????????? You're far too good at this kind of thing to be a mere dilettante. ;)
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Peder
I present the above as evidence of my above reaction.:p :D

StillILearn
You are soo right!
 
StillILearn said:
Peder, I think you may have just wrapped it all up in your above post. Even I (HH's actual, real-life archenemy) have to admit to the fairness of your summation. Lo does not get off scot-free after all. :cool:
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StillILearn
Many thanks for the very nice words. Maybe that's an OK summary of their face-off. (But I think Pontalba gets the grittiness of the situation much better.) And I still think there is much more to wonder about for each of them.

This time around in reviewing the situation I was really caused to wonder about the scene in the Enchanted Hunters Hotel. Even with the most humongous suspension of disbelief, I still find it hard to imagine that scene playing out with a 12-yr-old 'her' explaining her new game to a mature male 'him.' So I think my summary is at the very least a little bland with respect to Lo.

And with respect to Humbert, his change of heart is still a puzzle as to really when and why, IMO. It really seems sort of sudden. And as an incidental question, did he really view himself as a cultivated gentleman while that perversion lived within himself? And caused him to think such a horribly immoral thing as the purple pill strategy? Not to mention having sex with a 12-yr-old? I think that is one place where the smoking jacket may come in as VN's subliminal suggestion that Humbert did view himself as a nice gentleman. He certainly passed muster in the eyes of all whom he met, from policemen to Charlotte.

But I don't think I have sensed consensus on them individually in this forum. My own ideas have shifted in both cases, I know. She has a few more smudges, and so does he.


So -- tell us -- what is it that you do in real life? Hm???????????????? You're far too good at this kind of thing to be a mere dilettante. ;)
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Ah, the mystery question! I'm am just an amateur. No particular background in literature except a lot of reading. Including critical reading and writing of technical reports during probably a part of everyday of my professional life. I'm an engineer. (And a geeky one at that -- a computer engineer.:eek: ) Lolita is the only book that I know as well as you have sensed. I have read it a number of times and been in other discussions of Nabokov. But it is Lolita that contnues to intrigue me and which I regard as a roaring good read.

And BTW I think you can well address your question, exactly as phrased, to each of the members of this forum. I have been impressed with the uniformly great insights and observations of everyone, all superior in comparison to previous forums I've inhabited. I think we all have had to keep our thinking caps on.

So, now, enough about me, as they say. What about the much much more interesting characters in VN's novel?

Do we have a good bead on them? Yet?

Anyone care to try a summary of Lo or Hum? Or how they are still out of focus?

Peder
 
StillILearn

If it doesn't have chicory in it, its not real coffee.:eek: :D

I sit mucking about on the computer, and there is next to me a cup of CDM (Cafe du Monde) coffee with extra chicory added. No sugar, no milk.

Oh, yeah, and a giant Milkey Way..............:eek:
 
gentlemanly behavior

Peder

I am quite sure Humbert considered himself a gentleman of the old school. And yes, I agree that the smoking jacket is in fact a smoking gun. :) Humbert displays consistantly an ingrained distain for the 'general public'. Which is all rather amusing if you think about it. After all, if one wishes to be techincal about it, his father was 'in trade'. Which would automatically disqualify him for the upper class residency he proclaims himself to be. Proclaims a little too loudly and often if you think about it. Sort of like "the lady protesting too much"..............:rolleyes: Must be a gentleman by osmosis.

Perhaps [boy am I free associating!] thats part of why he thought he was a 'gentleman of the old school'..........some of that 'class' (oy!) are so bloody inbred, anything is possible..................meeeooowwwww.......:p
 
pontalba said:
StillILearn

If it doesn't have chicory in it, its not real coffee.:eek: :D

I sit mucking about on the computer, and there is next to me a cup of CDM (Cafe du Monde) coffee with extra chicory added. No sugar, no milk.

Oh, yeah, and a giant Milkey Way..............:eek:
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Oh, well now! That's a lunch, Pontalba!
Coffee with extra chicory, and black, with a big Milky Way! :eek:

No chicory in mine. Instead enough French Vanilla creamer to make it taste more like a malted milk. :rolleyes: And a small Cadbury chocolate bar.:D

Peder
 
That's getting to sound like the Breakfast of Forumites!
Coffee and chocolate bar. Mmm-mm-good. :)
 
Small! It does come in a 4.5 oz. ya know....;) :p

Starbucks puts out a double expresso with milk that is yummy. But unfortunately no chicory, so its only good as a treat. :cool:

Now as to Lo herself. She is as I originally thought a controlling/manipulative little brat. Howsomever... put into that situation...she did good!:D And to change my original opinion, I think that she would have matured into a well-adjusted, excellent mother. After all, she knew what to look for didn't she?:(
 
pontalba said:
Small! It does come in a 4.5 oz. ya know....;) :p

Starbucks puts out a double expresso with milk that is yummy. But unfortunately no chicory, so its only good as a treat. :cool:

Now as to Lo herself. She is as I originally thought a controlling/manipulative little brat. Howsomever... put into that situation...she did good!:D And to change my original opinion, I think that she would have matured into a well-adjusted, excellent mother. After all, she knew what to look for didn't she?:(
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Pontalba,
That's a nice new thought! Lo a mother. :) Yes I think she would definitely have taken care of her little daughter. Pink frocks, frills, Mary Janes, dolls, doll carriage, Princess style coat, the whole bit ya' think? Barbie? Ken?

Or sneakers, jeans, T-shirt?

Otherwise, just gonna wait for a while and see what thoughts roll in,
Hope you don't mind, :confused:

Peder
 
Peder said:
Pontalba,
.....Pink frocks, frills, Mary Janes, dolls, doll carriage, Princess style coat, the whole bit ya' think? Barbie? Ken?


Peder
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I certainly hope not. Except for the Princess style coat. :)
 
StillILearn said:
Anatomically correct, of course. Left over from the trial.
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Still.
Yes indeed! Every prosecutor needs them. Grooooooooooannnnnnnnnnn. :(
Peder
 
Peder said:
Pontalba,

Hmm.................

Peder








Princess coat with jeans? :confused: :)
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If its a denim Princess Style coat. Sheesh.

Lets not have any stereotypical typecasting claptrap here guys. :D

And dolls...........fuggettabtitttt...............ewwwww.
 
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