Vladimir Nabokov: Lolita

[StillILearn]

Ruby,
You will be the utter despair of StillILearn if you get soft-hearted on Humbert!
Peder

Okay Peder, I'll admit that I was halfway in love with Humbert myself when I was halfway through the Irons version of the movie (and I already knew what a monster he was going to turn out to be), so I will try to restrain myself.

Nabokov did make him into a right charmer, all right. No mistakes there.

 

[Peder]

"Noooooo," as Lo would say. "Noooooo. Not again!"

StillILearn,
Glad to see you're here. I was wondering if you could hear me pounding on the wall.
and Pontalba too,
Actually I had checked the bookstore shelves -- on line! So I knew they didn't have it.
There are 5 Borders stores I can easily get to. And if I now find that the Strand is online, I will really be in hog heaven!
Or actually the poorhouse as you said, SIL.
But reading, but reading.
I hope we get adjacent rooms. That way we can slide books under the doors back and forth to each other.
I'll let y'all know when it arrives,
And BCNU in the meantime.
Peder

 

[Peder]

Nabokov did make him into a right charmer, all right. No mistakes there.

StillILearn,
No need at all to restrain yourself.
That's exactly the nub of it, the more I think about why I have the reactions I do.
VN creates situations where we (or I) have normal reactions that would go with a normal man being involved, but there we are, and the man in question is Humbert. Yek! I think of Lo's 'little monkey paw' sliding into his hand in the car on the way shopping. There woild be nothing wrong with any daughter holding her father's hand. It would be a sweet affectionate scene. Except here it is Humbert, and we have already seen a glimpse of what he is. So we get torn and are properly horrified, because we see it as the snake making its way into the tent, even as Lo is seeing it as affection. Brrrrrrr. One really wants to kill that man, or at least say "Let go of my daughter!"

Peder

 

[StillILearn]

There are 5 Borders stores I can easily get to. And if I now find that the Strand is online, I will really be in hog heaven!

I'd be in so much trouble. Fortunately, I have to drive many miles to get to a bookstore.

Ooops. There's always amazon

I hope we get adjacent rooms. That way we can slide books under the doors back and forth to each other.

I guess there could be worse fates!

 

[StillILearn]

StillILearn,
No need at all to restrain yourself.
That's exactly the nub of it, the more I think about why I have the reactions I do.
VN creates situations where we (or I) have normal reactions that would go with a normal man being involved, but there we are, and the man in question is Humbert. Yek! I think of Lo's 'little monkey paw' sliding into his hand in the car on the way shopping. There woild be nothing wrong with any daughter holding her father's hand. It would be a sweet affectionate scene. Except here it is Humbert, and we have already seen a glimpse of what he is. So we get torn and are properly horrified, because we see it as the snake making its way into the tent, even as Lo is seeeing it as affection. Brrrrrrr. One wants to kill that man.

Peder

Exactly! And Nabokov makes it sound like true love on Humbert's part. If Lo had been eighteen we would have all been cheering for him. Seventeen.

Sixteen!

 

[pontalba]

I'd be in so much trouble. Fortunately, I have to drive many miles to get to a bookstore.

Ooops. There's always amazon



I guess there could be worse fates!

Hah! There is no Borders within 45 miles of me! And B&N is at least 25 miles, but BooksAMillion is 'only' about 15 miles.....but I don't particularly like them. Natch.

All I can say is thank you for Amazon!! And the internet.....

StillI, you are a baaaddd influence on me. I drove into town, (a 25 mile round trip) with dogs in tow...drove them home, and went back into town to get the blasted portable, (car connected if I want) CD player. Now to wrestle it from its plastic embrace......

Its Mr. Irons for me tonight! No plastic there........

 

[pontalba]

If we can all have adjoining rooms in the Nut House, I'll bring my cat Tuffy, and she will bring the books back and forth, plus defend them. We didn't name her Tuffy for nothing.

Oh, was that the Poor House?? When we're done, it could be either.

 

[Peder]

If we can all have adjoining rooms in the Nut House, I'll bring my cat Tuffy, and she will bring the books back and forth, plus defend them. We didn't name her Tuffy for nothing.

Oh, was that the Poor House?? When we're done, it could be either.

Plenty of time for re-reading.

 

[ruby]

Ruby! Welcome to the madhouse!

Keep an eye on Humbert the Horrible if he's anywhere near your daughters, and don't believe a word he says. He is not a gentleman. He is abnormal. Also, he lies like a rug.

Hi StillLearn thanks for the welcome to the madhouse,its just like being at home
If he goes near my daughters i will chop his you know what off!

 

[steffee]

steffee,
I am getting very interested on buying Ada (or Ardor) next.
Not the least to find out why the title can't be just Ada, or Ardor, alone. It's driving me half-crazy.
What attracts you to it?

Well... the books spans over a hundred years, so I've read. And this:

It is a love story, an erotic masterpiece, a philosophical investigation into the nature of time. Almost twice as long as any previous Nabokov novel, its rich and variegated prose moves from the darkest to the lightest of sonorities as Nabokov sensually evokes the widest range of delights. Nabokov the lepidopterist once said that he was "born a landscape painter," and he has never "painted" more luminous landscapes than in "Ada." It is an extraordinarily visual book, teeming with allusions to painters and paintings, and many scenes are veritable tableaux vivants of works ranging from Beardsley's illustrations for "Lysistrata" to the idyllic landscapes of Monet and Prendergast. As the family chronicle to end all such chronicles, "Ada" is a kind of museum of the novel, and it employs parody to rehearse its own history.

And I love the underlying psychology in Lolita the most, I think. I love the language too, I love that I've learned what solopsism means, and hebophile, and nymphet of course, and coltish, and apropos, and tons more interesting words. The story of Lolita on it's own could have been much much less interesting, and influential, had it been written by just an ordinary writer. But I like the psychology best, and Ada (or Ardor: A Family Chronicle) is apparently a memoir of a "psychologist, professor of philosophy and student of time".

I do think (from the reviews I've read on Ada so far), that it is like a What We Wish Lolita Could Have Been -- there's an contoversial romance, incest rather than pedophilic (if there is such a word) and after seventeen years apart, they find one another again. Awww!!

Ada is not only Van Vee's muse, desire, tormentor and alter ego, but his severest critic and collaborator as well, sometimes even taking Van's place to write a page or two.

And then there's the "time" thing, how the professor of philosophy, Ivan (Van) Veen tries to seperate "time" from "space", in order to change the future. I love philosophy and have even done a module for my degree in it, but the "time" thing always makes me feel sick to think about. It sounds interesting.

Um... what else? Well, I've read Anna Karenina, which influenced this novel, and I have read many of Joyce's works (even an attempt at Finnegan's Wake). I haven't read Proust, but maybe after this I may want to!

But The Enchanter is calling my name too.

 

[steffee]

Hah! There is no Borders within 45 miles of me! And B&N is at least 25 miles, but BooksAMillion is 'only' about 15 miles.....but I don't particularly like them. Natch.

All I can say is thank you for Amazon!! And the internet.....

Wow, 45 miles. We have a Borders about 3 or 4 miles away, two Waterstones and an Ottakars in town (1 mile away), as well as two second-hand bookshops, a university bookshop, and a Christian bookshop, there.

The UK is so small!

 

[Peder]

Well... the books spans over a hundred years, so I've read.

And I love the underlying psychology in Lolita the most, I think. I love the language too, I love that I've learned what solopsism means, and hebophile, and nymphet of course, and coltish, and apropos, and tons more interesting words. The story of Lolita on it's own could have been much much less interesting, and influential, had it been written by just an ordinary writer. But I like the psychology best, and Ada (or Ardor: A Family Chronicle) is apparently a memoir of a "psychologist, professor of philosophy, and student of time."

I do think (from the reviews I've read on Ada so far), that it is like a What We Wish Lolita Could Have Been -- there's an contoversial romance, incest rather than pedophilic (if there is such a word) and after seventeen years apart, they find one another again. Awww!!

And then there's the "time" thing, how the professor of philosophy, Ivan (Van) Veen tries to seperate "time" from "space", in order to change the future. I love philosophy and have even done a module for my degree in it, but the "time" thing always makes me feel sick to think about. It sounds interesting.

Um... what else? Well, I've read Anna Karenina, which influenced this novel, and I have read many of Joyce's works (even an attempt at Finnegan's Wake). I haven't read Proust, but maybe after this I may want to!

But The Enchanter is calling my name too.

Oh Steffe!
It sounds like you have definitely caught the bug! I have been looking mainly at amazon reader reviews, and personal recommendations, for deciding about books -- plus the back jacket blurbs on VNs books as I read them in my local Borders -- but I have never seen such a wonderful review as you just included about Ada re the rich range of prose and the scene painting with words and allusions to art. That makes it sound more wonderful than I would have imagined based only on what I had seen. It was already on my list (for more than just its title ), so today will be the day to buy it. Plus a love story as well? Couldn't be better. I think I must have been imprinted by reading a romance from the family bookshelf among my first 'real' books. Plus "psychologist, professor of philosophy, and student of time" works for me too.

Ulysses? Yes. And an attempt at Finnegan's Wake? Been there, done that too! (Attempt, that is -) ) And Anna Karenina, a long time ago. And I'll say, (with as much modesty as I can manage ), that I read all of Proust's Remberance of Times Past, one Summer, and a slower more enjoyable 6 volumes you will never find for sheer reading joy (plus a love story). Paragraph long sentences, just marvelous!
It sounds like we have both discovered one of the great reading gold mines of literature, but the stack of 6, soon to be 7, unread VN's here at my left tells me I'm going to working over in that corner of the mine for a while.

Many thanks for the pleasure of reading your post and hearing about your reading,

Peder

 

[steffee]

And I'll say, (with as much modesty as I can manage ), that I read all of Proust's Remberance of Times Past, one Summer, and a slower more enjoyable 6 volumes you will never find for sheer reading joy (plus a love story). Paragraph long sentences, just marvelous!

No need to be the slightest bit modest at completing a 6-volume work, what an amazing feat. That's the one thing I would love to aim for, I can never manage to appreciate an author for very long, much less than 6 volumes. I think the most amount of works I've read of any single author is about three, which was Joyce (aside from Bill Bryson, but even he hasn't caught my attention long enough to read them all).

So I'm hoping, fingers crossed, that Nabokov might just be the one to offer enough variety, stimulation, exciting language use... to make me stay put. For once.

P.S. I don't think anyone has completed Finnegan's Wake!

And the prankquean pulled a rosy one and made her wit foreninst the dour. And she lit up and fireland was ablaze. And spoke she to the dour in her petty perusienne: Mark the Wans, why do I am alook alike a poss of porterpease?

Er...ok.

 

[StillILearn]

If we can all have adjoining rooms in the Nut House, I'll bring my cat Tuffy, and she will bring the books back and forth, plus defend them. We didn't name her Tuffy for nothing.

Oh, was that the Poor House?? When we're done, it could be either.

Poor House, Nut House -- what the hey. If they don't take our books (or our Tuffys) aways from us, we're in business. Oh. And our laptops. And coffee. Do you think they will give us chocolates in there?

Where do I sign?

 

[pontalba]

The UK is so small!

But chock-a-block with goodies! Pound for pound, mo bettah. IMHO
I do live out in the boonies. /sigh/ But on the up side, there are few neighbors, and no traffic noise nearby. And unlike New Orleans, 50ish miles to the south, we are above sea level. Always a good thing.

Your post regarding Ada or Ardor was beautiful to read and I am glad you post here regularly.

And as for you, Peder I've been to Amazon again.........need I say more....?

 

[StillILearn]

Hah! There is no Borders within 45 miles of me! And B&N is at least 25 miles, but BooksAMillion is 'only' about 15 miles.....but I don't particularly like them. Natch.

All I can say is thank you for Amazon!! And the internet.....

StillI, you are a baaaddd influence on me. I drove into town, (a 25 mile round trip) with dogs in tow...drove them home, and went back into town to get the blasted portable, (car connected if I want) CD player. Now to wrestle it from its plastic embrace......

Its Mr. Irons for me tonight! No plastic there........

I can hardly wait to hear your opinion. (Verdict?) I always thought that James Mason had the lullingest voice in the world, but now I find that Irons also has the ability to :

mes·mer·ize (mezÆmà r#zÅ, mesÆ-), v.t., -ized, -iz·ing.
1. to hypnotize.
2. to spellbind; fascinate.
3. to compel by fascination.

 

[pontalba]

I can hardly wait to hear your opinion. (Verdict?) I always thought that James Mason had the lullingest voice in the world, but now I find that Irons also has the ability to :

mes·mer·ize (mezÆmà r#zÅ, mesÆ-), v.t., -ized, -iz·ing.
1. to hypnotize.
2. to spellbind; fascinate.
3. to compel by fascination.

Oh Yeahhhh.....unfortunately, a little tooo much last night (or in reality, this morning ), as I fell asleep to Jeremy's rendition. I have only listened to the first disc, but really, I can't get over the range of his voice. From John Ray, to HH.....and the way he read/said the part about his mother's death...succinct. Picinc, lightning........the little downward slope to his sentences.

I look forward to finishing it asap, but I know it is something I will listen to time and time again.

If faulty memory serves semi correctly, Mason and Irons have somewhat of the same timbre to their voices?

 

[Peder]

Steffee,
That was a wonderful quote from Finnegan's Wake! But now I'm beginning to think I am losing it, because I think that it made more sense to me just now than the last time I looked at anything like that!

Nabokov may well turn into a keeper for you, but it wouldn't surprise me Proust could also. You should at least read the opening paragraph on the madeleine once in your lifetime, just for itself. But that might also be enough to get you hooked.

'Everyone' knows about the madeleine, but reading the paragraph will put you miles ahead of all those who only know about it without having actually read the paragraph.

Peder

 

[Peder]

Humbertian fantasy

I've been continuing to move slowly forward through Lolita looking for retrospective evidences of remorse by HH. None yet, but all sorts of other interesting tidbits, munchies, yummies and mints are turning up.

Lo is in the car waitng for Charlotte to drive her off to Camp Q for the summer (long before we ever know what that letter means). And Humbert is already bemoaning her loss.

How could I afford not to see her for two months of summer insomnias? Two whole months out of the two years of her remaining nymphage! Should I disguise myself as a somber old fashioned girl, gawky old Mlle. Humbert, and put up my tent on the outskirts of Camp Q, in the hope that its russet nymphets would clamor: "Let us adopt that deep-voiced D.P." and drag the sad, shyly smiling Berthe au Grand Pied to their rustic hearth. Berthe will sleep with Dolores Haze!"

I can't help chuckling, as I think of a horde of Lilliputian-sized little girls with one voice swarming out of camp to bind up this huge Gulliver, with strings every which way to truss him into a solid log, which they then heft up onto a myriad of little shoulders and haul off into camp, there to drop him at Lo's tent for her care. The deep-voiced Berthe of the big foot!

By such humorous means does VN humanize HH.

I imagine Jonathan Swift squirming, Nabokov chucklng at his allusion to Swift's Gulliver's Travels, and myself wanting to shake VN and say "Stop doing that to me! Making me giggle when I am trying my hardest to dislike that man!

One of the charms of VN's humor,
At least to me,
Peder

 

[StillILearn]

I can't help chuckling, as I think of a horde of Lilliputian-sized little girls with one voice swarming out of camp to bind up this huge Gulliver, with strings every which way to truss him into a solid log, which they then heft up onto a myriad of little shoulders and haul off into camp, there to drop him at Lo's tent for her care. The deep-voiced Berthe of the big foot!

By such humorous means does VN humanize HH.

I imagine Jonathan Swift squirming, Nabokov chucklng at his allusion to Swift's Gulliver's Travels, and myself wanting to shake VN and say "Stop doing that to me! Making me giggle when I am trying my hardest to dislike that man!

Peder, sometimes I think you're just about as funny! Have I said that I really can't thank you enough for adding so much to my own appreciation and enjoyment of this book?

Aside: In my mind "D.P." stands for "deported person", don't you think?

Now I'm wondering how much more I'd be getting out of the novel if I spoke at least one more language, (French, f'rinstance.)