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Vladimir Nabokov: Lolita

Steffee, StillILearn, Pontalba,

So the next thing the Irregulars did was to look in the obvious place. Good chaps, they are! And here is what they found:

The Two Lolitas

a book by the man who unearthed Lichberg's 1916 Lolita, "a must for anyone who has fallen madly, madly, madly, madly in love with Nabokov's book," or words to that effect. /sigh/ There they go, talking about my Lolita again. :cool:

But at least the suggestion emerges that she might even be an archetype that nobody 'owns.'

Archetype, Lolita! Archetype!

Peder
 
StillILearn said:
semiotician
se·mi·ot·ics (s"Åm" otÆiks, semÅ"-, s"Åm#-), n. (used with a sing. v.)
1. the study of signs and symbols as elements of communicative behavior; the analysis of systems of communication, as language, gestures, or clothing.
2. a general theory of signs and symbolism, usually divided into the branches of pragmatics, semantics, and syntactics.
[1875–80; see SEMIOTIC, -ICS]
—se·mi·o·ti·cian (s"Åm" Ã tishÆÃn, semÅ"-, s"Åm#-), n.

:rolleyes:

Still,
I just knew there was something, evil, immoral, filthy and absolutely disgusting in that book. :eek: :D
Peder
 
Peder said:
Steffee, StillILearn, Pontalba,

So the next thing the Irregulars did was to look in the obvious place. Good chaps, they are! And here is what they found:

The Two Lolitas

a book by the man who unearthed Lichberg's 1916 Lolita, "a must for anyone who has fallen madly, madly, madly, madly in love with Nabokov's book," or words to that effect. /sigh/ There they go, talking about my Lolita again. :cool:

But at least the suggestion emerges that she might even be an archetype that nobody 'owns.'

Archetype, Lolita! Archetype!

Peder


I could just scream! :D
 
pontalba said:
I could just scream! :D
Pontalba,

Actually, that is what happened when I thought "one more book! /groan/" :rolleyes: :rolleyes: :rolleyes: :D

But that changed to shriek, when I checked the high price, the few pages and the no used ones.
So I dunno about it, :(
Maybe I'll hint to my daughters, /evil grin/
Peder
 
Peder said:
Pontalba,

Actually, that is what happened when I thought "one more book! /groan/" :rolleyes: :rolleyes: :rolleyes: :D

But that changed to shriek, when I checked the high price, the few pages and the no used ones.
So I dunno about it, :(
Maybe I'll hint to my daughters, /evil grin/
Peder

Look on the side of the page on Amazon, there are 2nd hand ones available, but by the time you pay the shipping.....the used are started at $ 11.50. I have not ordered it....yet. But I'm thinking. Perhaps its dense, small print like in the Casebook? There are no images of the pages. :-( Do you think your Borders would have it? You could take a look in the bookstore. ;)
 
This 'Two Lolitas' book sounds worth a read. The more I think about it, the more realistic it sounds that Nabokov merely read the story, or heard of it as a youngster, then when the girl, Sally Homer was kidnapped by a 50 year old, it reminded him of it (subconsciously) and he wrote the book. The name, Lolita is an unusual coincidence(?) as is the fact that they were both boarding at Lolita's mothers in both stories.

Having discovered this, it seems to me, maybe Nabokov was writing in jest, a little, choosing to re-write an influential story in his own style, and ridiculing Freudian schools of thought, and others too, in the process.

I thought copyright was copying word for word passages of text as your own, but plagiarism is copying the ideas, as your own.
 
pontalba said:
I HAVE TO STOP THINKING.......!
Pontalba
No, no! Don't stop now! Not so soon after you got my gears started working!
I checked amazon and realized I had fixated on the full new price, not their new price, and that I hadn't even thought about their used books, which I usually do. So when I fixed those oversights (more like sleepy blunders), I saw that the lowest price was from none other than my favorite in-City used bookstore, Strand Books. They are worth my business any day, so now a single click has started the book on its way.
Many Many Thanks,
Peder
 
I am not even half way though this book yet but i find Nabakovs writing style fascinating,some of the words hes used are beautiful as well! H H mind would keep drs in business for yrs! And as for Lolita what can i say,shes a little brat!
But she has a strong mind of her own and has used this to her advantage.
 
steffee said:
This 'Two Lolitas' book sounds worth a read. The more I think about it, the more realistic it sounds that Nabokov merely read the story, or heard of it as a youngster, then when the girl, Sally Homer was kidnapped by a 50 year old, it reminded him of it (subconsciously) and he wrote the book. The name, Lolita is an unusual coincidence(?) as is the fact that they were both boarding at Lolita's mothers in both stories.

Having discovered this, it seems to me, maybe Nabokov was writing in jest, a little, choosing to re-write an influential story in his own style, and ridiculing Freudian schools of thought, and others too, in the process.

I thought copyright was copying word for word passages of text as your own, but plagiarism is copying the ideas, as your own.

Steffee,
I am going to be keeping a very open mind on the matter, because at this point anything seems possible with the little I know, even some of the things one wishes are not true. And if there are unusual coincidences then there are, for whatever they may mean.

Re plagiarism and copyright, your observation sounds about right, with the possibiity that the degree of copying may also come into the matter, even for copyright. But there are so many wrinkles, like being able to copyright one'a own collection of a list of titles of copyrighted works, because it is your own contribution in collecting and selecting members of the list that is being protected, not a right to the contents of any of them.
And there are simply some things that can not be copyrighted, like say a new mathematical formula that you discover, or a new physical fact about the Universe. Your publication of the formula can be copyrighted, and any one pasing off your derivation as his own is plagiarizing, but the formula itself cannot be 'owned.'
These are just the anecdotal contacts I have had with the subject, but frequently it comes down to what is your claimed contribution versus what is already common knowledge or practice, i.e. what any worker in the field would ordinarly do. If you and I both write a paragraph about Lolita, I can hardly say that you borrowed my ideas just because we both describe the same events. Because anyone writing about Lolita would likely describe the same contents of the same story in some similar way. Interpretation of Lolita would be a different matter.
Definitely a subject for intellectual property lawyers to parse.

Peder
 
ruby said:
I am not even half way though this book yet but i find Nabakovs writing style fascinating,some of the words hes used are beautiful as well! H H mind would keep drs in business for yrs! And as for Lolita what can i say,shes a little brat!
But she has a strong mind of her own and has used this to her advantage.
Ruby, hi!
Glad to hear your voice and that you are making progress. It sounds like you are reading the same book we are, as there are some who definitely share your views! And they will probably appreciate your help in overcoming some softhearted ones of us (right StillILearn? :) )

Stick with it
And join in often
Peder
 
Peder said:
Ruby, hi!
Glad to hear your voice and that you are making progress. It sounds like you are reading the same book we are, as there are some who definitely share your views! And they will probably appreciate your help in overcoming some softhearted ones of us (right StillILearn? :) )

Stick with it
And join in often
Peder

Thanks peder

But i am also soft hearted so i will probably go with them on this discussion :D
 
steffee said:
I am getting very interested in reading Nabokov's Ada (or Ador) next...
steffee,
I am getting very interested on buying Ada (or Ardor) next. :D
Not the least to find out why the title can't be just Ada, or Ardor, alone. :rolleyes: It's driving me half-crazy. :)
What attracts you to it?
Peder
 
ruby said:
Thanks peder

But i am also soft hearted so i will probably go with them on this discussion :D
Ruby,
You will be the utter despair of StillILearn if you get soft-hearted on Humbert! :)
Peder
 
Steffee Ada, or Ardor is in my Nabokov stack, along with um, at least 5 or 6 others.....:eek: But The Enchanter jumped the line. Well worth it!

Ruby! Yes! More to be on the side of the softer, gentler Humbert! Yay! I know, I go back and forth on the old boy, but so what, thats half the fun!

Peder! Oh, Curses, for a Big City second hand book store!! arrrggghhhhh! When you look at it, let me know if you think its worth the Amazon price. :rolleyes:
And whaddya mean half? (crazy) :D :D :D :p Ya have to be all the way crazy to join this club.....
 
ruby said:
I am not even half way though this book yet but i find Nabakovs writing style fascinating,some of the words hes used are beautiful as well! H H mind would keep drs in business for yrs! And as for Lolita what can i say,shes a little brat!
But she has a strong mind of her own and has used this to her advantage.

I love the casual way HH speaks of his little stays in mental institutions. The last paragraph on p.34 is a work of art.
I discovered there was an endless source of robust enjoyment in trifling with psychiatrists: cunningly leading them on; never letting them see that you know all the tricks of the trade; inventing for them elaborate dreams.....

And then bribing a nurse to get his files! What wonderful nerve!:eek:

Robust enjoyment indeed!
 
ruby said:
Thanks peder

But i am also soft hearted so i will probably go with them on this discussion :D


Ruby! Welcome to the madhouse!

Keep an eye on Humbert the Horrible if he's anywhere near your daughters, and don't believe a word he says. He is not a gentleman. He is abnormal. Also, he lies like a rug. :mad:
 
pontalba said:
Look on the side of the page on Amazon, there are 2nd hand ones available, but by the time you pay the shipping.....the used are started at $ 11.50. I have not ordered it....yet. But I'm thinking. Perhaps its dense, small print like in the Casebook? There are no images of the pages. :-( Do you think your Borders would have it? You could take a look in the bookstore. ;)

"Noooooo," as Lo would say. "Noooooo. Not again!"
 
steffee said:
This 'Two Lolitas' book sounds worth a read. The more I think about it, the more realistic it sounds that Nabokov merely read the story, or heard of it as a youngster, then when the girl, Sally Homer was kidnapped by a 50 year old, it reminded him of it (subconsciously) and he wrote the book. The name, Lolita is an unusual coincidence(?) as is the fact that they were both boarding at Lolita's mothers in both stories.

Having discovered this, it seems to me, maybe Nabokov was writing in jest, a little, choosing to re-write an influential story in his own style, and ridiculing Freudian schools of thought, and others too, in the process.

I thought copyright was copying word for word passages of text as your own, but plagiarism is copying the ideas, as your own.

I'm thinking it's a good thing we don't know where the man is buried, because we'd be thinking about exhuming him in order to shake the truth out of him. Nabokov, I mean. Humbert we will have already burned at the stake.
 
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