Vladimir Nabokov: Lolita

[StillILearn]

Oh, you guys are just so right on with all this. The only part that's hard to believe now is that Nabokov crammed so much into this one book. I mean, without us doing all of this research and study, we'd have missed practically the whole damned story.

Peder, is this true of all of Nabokovs works? If so, then all I can say is: holy smokes and heavenly days!

(I was sure I had ordered a couple more of his books from amazon, but I guess they got waylaid or something. I'll have to do it again.)

Anyway. What a superb ride. Or is there still more to learn, do you think?

 

[Peder]

Oh, you guys are just so right on with all this. The only part that's hard to believe now is that Nabokov crammed so much into this one book. I mean, without us doing all of this research and study, we'd have missed practically the whole damned story.

Peder, is this true of all of Nabokovs works? If so, then all I can say is: holy smokes and heavenly days!

(I was sure I had ordered a couple more of his books from amazon, but I guess they got waylaid or something. I'll have to do it again.)

Anyway. What a superb ride. Or is there still more to learn, do you think?

StillILearn
Maybe miss almost the entire story? It feels that way doesn't it? Well, Nabokov designed his stories to be enjoyable on the first read. But he expected that they should be reread so he built in allusions and references and linkages that would only become apparent then. But as we have seen one never catches all of them. so the book has a certain quality of being a different story each time you read it. Everyone seems to reach that conclusion.
Some works are more that way, others are gentler, from what I read. But I would guess that it is a hallmark of his writing. Pnin is very approachable, but still has some internal nysteries for the reader to puzzle out. Pale Fire has kept experts wrapped in knots since forever, even though the first read seems pretty tame. Some (all?) of the books are linked. The dog that the car swerves to miss and instead ends up killimg Charlotte, may be the same dog that appears briefly (twice) in Pnin. There it even has a name as I recall -- when you don't realize it is a dog being spoken about So I would say his writing is that way.
I've enjoyed the three I have read. And he has written so many!
Is there more? Probably as long as anyne is alive and breathing. There is a Salon article I'll put up tomorrow, er later today. If you think you may have seen it all in here, wait until you see that reaction!
Til then,
Peder

 

[Peder]

What a superb ride. Or is there still more to learn, do you think?

To all,

Here's an appreciation, called to my attention by a friend, that has some thoughts not seen in this discussion,

Salon Article

And for you, StillILearn, I think it has the answer to your 'ravishment' question.

Hope everyone enjoys the article,
Peder

 

[Peder]

Hah! So! That explains completely why she stayed on HH's lap during the couch scene, and was so flustered. Curiosity. She just had to see what he would do.

Pontalba,
Yes indeed! And the more I think about it, the more I think she was deliberately trying out her new-found magic to see if it worked. And it did, with reaction on both him and on her.


Peder

 

[G4G]

This thread should be turned into a book: Lolita: a TBF Reader's Guide by Peder, et. al.

Proceeds to the site running costs.

 

[pontalba]

Peder The Salon article makes me wish I had read Lolita at dfferent ages as well. Maybe that is another way (only way?) to fully appreciate some of the many angles of the novel. Great reading!

StillILearn I think it was you that mentioned a connection between VN's butterfly studies and Lolita. Another of my deliveries yesterday was Vladimir Nabokov's Lolita, A Casebook edited by Ellen Pifer. I've only had a chance to read the introduction and part of the first case study, but in the intro, Ms. Pifer talks about that very subject. p.5

The relationship between Nabokov's two lifelong passions--literature and lepidiptery--should be approached cautiously, however. Developing an analogy between Humbert's pursuit of Lolita and Nabokov's hunt "for the female of lycaeides sublivens,'one critic drew these comments from the novelist: "Diana Butler's essay might have been amusing had she known something about Lepidoptera. Alas, she revealed complete ignorance and the muddle of terms she employed proved to be only jarring and absurd".............................Nabokov was still more outspoken in a letter he wrote to Page Stegner on 14 October 1966: "Mrs. Butler's article is pretentious nonsense from beginning to end."

Ouch!
Also in the intro: p.7

.....my creature Humbert is a foreigner and an anarchist, and thee are many things, besides nymhets, in which I disagree with him"

There is tons more wonderful stuff, but you get my drift. I highly recommend this to anyone thats interested in either Lolita and or VN.

 

[StillILearn]

pontalba =

There is tons more wonderful stuff, but you get my drift. I highly recommend this to anyone thats interested in either Lolita and or VN.

We may just be able to drum up the merest modicum of interest around here, I guess.

 

[pontalba]

pontalba =

We may just be able to drum up the merest modicum of interest around here, I guess.

Heh, Heh, Heh........

That was for the general populace that has not yet tasted of the VN.....

 

[StillILearn]

To all,

Here's an appreciation, called to my attention by a friend, that has some thoughts not seen in this discussion,

Salon Article

And for you, StillILearn, I think it has the answer to your 'ravishment' question.

Hope everyone enjoys the article,
Peder

Wonderful link. Thank you so much, Peder!

Now that I was more of a Charlotte and less of a Lo, it's true that Humbert had changed too. The gap between author and narrator had widened for me. Humbert was more of a brute, less of a true lover. I pitied him, but I pitied the women too. And the story was sadder, and better for all that. It was funnier too.

 

[StillILearn]

pontalba[/B]]Heh, Heh, Heh........

That was for the general populace that has not yet tasted of the VN.....

Haha! pontalba!

And much as Wine has play'd the Infidel,
And robb'd me of my Robe of Honour--well,
I often wonder what the Vintners buy
One half so precious as the Goods they sell.

 

[StillILearn]

This thread should be turned into a book: Lolita: a TBF Reader's Guide by Peder, et. al.

Proceeds to the site running costs.

No kidding, CDA. Sixty pages to date, and still going strong. Nora Roberts should be so prolific!

 

[pontalba]

Haha! pontalba!

Oh, Great StillILearn, I bow to thee of the ever changing (I love it!) avatar.

 

[steffee]

Nice new avatar StillIlearn!!

Have any of you read Misreadings by Umberto Eco? I stumbled across this in the library today and haven't yet managed to pic my jaw from the floor.

The first story(? essay? pastiche?) is like a reverse-Lolita. The HH is now Umberto Umberto and Lolita has become Granita, an elderly woman.

The whole Granita bit is available on Amazon

But does this sound familiar...

Granita. Flower of my adolescence, torment of my nights. Will I ever see you again? Granita. Granita.

It probably is intended as a "mick-take", but I thought it was refreshing, especially since Lolita is one of those books you wish you could erase the story of from your mind, so you can re-read it and be shocked, horrified, disgusted, moved etc, all over again.

 

[Peder]

This thread should be turned into a book: Lolita: a TBF Reader's Guide by Peder, et. al.

Proceeds to the site running costs.

CDA
Nooooooooooo. Not by Peder et al. By a pronounceable acronym of all the initials of everyone who has ever posted here. A forum is contributions, not a single person. And if VN could find Vivian Darkbloom, we should be able to find an equally intriguing collective name. It would only be appropriate!
Peder

 

[pontalba]

Have any of you read Misreadings by Umberto Eco? I stumbled across this in the library today and haven't yet managed to pic my jaw from the floor.

The first story(? essay? pastiche?) is like a reverse-Lolita. The HH is now Umberto Umberto and Lolita has become Granita, an elderly woman.

The whole Granita bit is available on Amazon

But does this sound familiar...

Nooo, like I needed another reason to visit Amazon!! Huff, huff, huff..........aaarrrrrgggghhhhh!

 

[steffee]

To all,

Here's an appreciation, called to my attention by a friend, that has some thoughts not seen in this discussion,

Salon Article

Fantastic link!!

I almost missed this. If I'd done my usual catching-up style of going back to where I remember leaving off, and continuing until I've caught up, I would have. And there'd be ten pointless posts in a row from me, and... well, I might have missed the link.

So I'm kinda reading backwards now... this topic (once again, and certainly not for the last time) has become fast and furious again! Surely it must be the longest thread in the history of TBF by now

 

[pontalba]

CDA
Nooooooooooo. Not by Peder et al. By a pronounceable acronym of all the initials of everyone who has ever posted here. A forum is contributions, not a single person. And if VN could find Vivian Darkbloom, we should be able to find an equally intriguing collective name. It would only be appropriate!
Peder

Hah! Since you offer to figure one out....... /she said whilst running and giggling madly/....................

 

[Peder]

Nice new avatar StillIlearn!!

Have any of you read Misreadings by Umberto Eco? I stumbled across this in the library today and haven't yet managed to pic my jaw from the floor.

The first story(? essay? pastiche?) is like a reverse-Lolita. The HH is now Umberto Umberto and Lolita has become Granita, an elderly woman.

It probably is intended as a "mick-take", but I thought it was refreshing, especially since Lolita is one of those books you wish you could erase the story of from your mind, so you can re-read it and be shocked, horrified, disgusted, moved etc, all over again.

Steffee,
Never heard of it, but now I have to see it! And figure out some way to stop laughing myself silly! Umberto Umberto is just too much! How can an author be so fortunately named? And I hope Granny Granita is rock solid in her morals.

Mne, mne tnx,
ROTFALOL
Peder

 

[steffee]

In March 2004 an earlier Lolita story, claimed to be published in Germany in 1916 was also found, and one can start reading the story of that discovery in the wikipedia article on Lolita

Earlier Lolita

in the Section, "Literary Allusions."

Is writing a full novel from a short story plagiarism? For A level English our first assignment was to write a short story based on the lyrics to a song, surely that is too then. I guess I already know the answer to this... And how can someone unknowlingly copy a book, particularly if we go from that um... his name escapes me... that man who said there is only one story, and later gave two terms which basically said that one's writing is always based on what he/she has seen or heard before? Surely if it was a copy from another idea, it had to be intended...

 

[Peder]

Hah! Since you offer to figure one out....... /she said whilst running and giggling madly/....................

No bid!