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Vladimir Nabokov: Lolita

Ms P, manipulative seems a harsh word to use. I'd like to think of Lo as taking advantage of a bad situation and making the best of what life threw at her. Manipulative just sounds too devious. She had a mother who 'simply hated her daughter'. And two men (I refuse to count Charles as anything more than just immature curiosity and a bowing to peer pressure) who paid attention to Lo and played her like a fiddle to say the least. She was a smart kid who learned to play the game - to move towards the prize of freedom.
 
Peder said:
Aw, now, Pontalba,
Does it really count as 'manipulative,' if a pretty girl just moves her little pinky just a little and all the men jump? :rolleyes:
Peder
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May be it's pay-back time for those years of men having the first and last say. Ah, the smell of freedom, the power of movement without restriction, girl power:p
 
Hi Breaca
No, I have to stick by 'manipulative'. But I will concede that she was forced into being that way. You must admit that she did it quite skillfully, so must have had the wherewithal to act thusly.

May be it's pay-back time for those years of men having the first and last say. Ah, the smell of freedom, the power of movement without restriction, girl power
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:D You won't get much arguement from me there! But you must admit that women have been the 'power behind the throne' more than a few times.;)
 
Power behind the throne indeed. Only now we can stand up and do it for ourselves - we've come out of said closet. Unfortunately now we are in the full glare of the spotlight and there are those that hog it for all the wrong reasons.

As for our Lolita... What great teachers she had. And having the wherewithall put her in a position to eventually help herself. If she'd been a little older she may not have found the need to rely on another adult to get her out. I cannot help but feel some admiration for her. Especially when you think of those (adult) women who are abused by their spouses and don't get out.
 
Breaca said:
As for our Lolita... What great teachers she had. And having the wherewithall put her in a position to eventually help herself. If she'd been a little older she may not have found the need to rely on another adult to get her out. I cannot help but feel some admiration for her. Especially when you think of those (adult) women who are abused by their spouses and don't get out.
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It would have been a moot point if she'd been older. Neither HH or Q would have even wanted her. And as far as relying on another adult (Q) to get her out, she had a crush on him, all she did was jump from the frying pan into the fire.

And I do admire the way she left Quilty. That took real nerve. She'd been in love with him, and when he wanted her to perform with other boys/men, she took off on her own. I think she would have made a good life with Dick and her child. That was admirable.
 
Question oh wise one - did she have a sexual relationship with Quilty? Do we know for sure or was it just alluded to? :confused:
 
Breaca said:
Question oh wise one - did she have a sexual relationship with Quilty? Do we know for sure or was it just alluded to? :confused:
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Verra Phunny, oh Breaca!

But...p.276. They never come out and say she had sex with Q. The inference is clearly there....but cloudy.
He was a great guy in many respects. But it was all drink and drugs. And, of course, he was a complete freak in sex matters, and his friends were his slaves. I just could not imagine (I, Humbert, could not imagine!) what they all did at Duk Duk Ranch. She refused to take part because she loved him, and he threw her out.
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Duk, Duk? Rhyming? Anyway, she refused to do what he wanted, so maybe he wouldn't do anything with her. And if he was that drunk and/or high, its also entirely possible that he could not perform sexually, and thats why he wanted 'company'.
 
Mmm, I'm still not convinced Ms P. I just can't help thinking that Lo loved Quilty because he was like a 'true' father figure with her. Although I doubted his reasons from the get go. Oh if only I could have my slice of cake and eat it too:)
 
Breaca said:
Mmm, I'm still not convinced Ms P. I just can't help thinking that Lo loved Quilty because he was like a 'true' father figure with her. Although I doubted his reasons from the get go. Oh if only I could have my slice of cake and eat it too:)
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But I don't think he was a 'father figure' to her. She had that poster up in her room in such a way as to profess a crush. I got no "fatherly" vibes there.
 
To know is to love;) Besides, VNs writing is the seduction, not the topic so nothing to be ashamed of - his writing is sheer poetry. And he holds the power to provoke thought and debate. Is there any hope for us mere mortals, she whispers as she licks crumbs off fingers. Ah, more poetry - a cup of tea and cheese on toast....
 
pontalba said:
But I don't think he was a 'father figure' to her. She had that poster up in her room in such a way as to profess a crush. I got no "fatherly" vibes there.
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To coin a phrase from Peder -- must reread... OK give me a break what page is the poster bit on or do I need to rifle through the book and wade through post-its and highlights and underscores - ah yes and let's not forget my scribbled snorts of condemnation.:rolleyes:
 
breaca = Question oh wise one - did she have a sexual relationship with Quilty? Do we know for sure or was it just alluded to :confused:
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Well, Quilty does say (he is under some duress, I admit -- actually, he is being asked whether he prefers to be executed whilst sitting or standing):

"Ah, let me think," he said. "It is not an easy question. Incidentally -- I made a mistake. Which I sincerely regret. You see, I had no fun with your Dolly. I am practically impotent, to tell the melancholy truth ... " p.298
 
I go away for the weekend and there's....

DRUMROLL....

10 pages of new posts. 10!! :D

I managed to buy Lolita on dvd though - both versions! And Ada (or Ador), I just couldn't resist (don't tell my husband ;) )
 
pontalba said:
You know, in spite of Sellers being considered a genius (which I am not disputing) I don't really care for him. Yes, I liked the Pink Panther movies, but after all...David Niven was in those :eek: . There was just something off about him, and I don't mean amusing off, I mean Off off.
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I agree, pontalba. There was something off-putting about him. Something dissolute. He was incredibly funny all right, but I wouldn't have wanted to have him around, is that what you mean? He looked as if he may have had a mean streak.

Oh, oh, here I go down the road towards buying DVDs with Peter Sellers in them. I did like him in Being There. And Dr Strangelove.
 
steffee said:
I go away for the weekend and there's....

DRUMROLL....

10 pages of new posts. 10!! :D

I managed to buy Lolita on dvd though - both versions! And Ada (or Ador), I just couldn't resist (don't tell my husband ;) )
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Whoopee! Good for you, steffee. Let us know what your husband says when he finds out that you have become a Nabokov addict. And that you have just the tiniest crush on Jeremy Irons! :D :D :D
 
steffee said:
I go away for the weekend and there's....

DRUMROLL....

10 pages of new posts. 10!! :D

I managed to buy Lolita on dvd though - both versions! And Ada (or Ador), I just couldn't resist (don't tell my husband ;) )
Click to expand...
Steffee!!!
Welcome back!
10 pages? Yes, well, I guess that says what we do with our weekends. :( :( :(
And we won't tell your husband, but there is a price. You have to tell us about your weekend, at least the littlest teeniest hint, but much more preferrably.
Glad to hear your voice, :) :)
Peder

And BTW, great purchases! Many hours of pure enjoyment there!
 
Peder said:
p.69

......
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Next you will be asking us to believe that Nabokov had some symbolism in mind when he told us that Lo's "chaste" white bedstead had "black, more or less rounded, marks on the white."

Hm? :rolleyes:
 
StillILearn said:
Next you will be asking us to believe that Nabokov had some symbolism in mind when he told us that Lo's "chaste" white bedstead had "black, more or less rounded, marks on the white."

Hm? :rolleyes:
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Well, no....
Actually, I was still trying to get past just the.....well, forget about it.
Peder
 
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