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Vladimir Nabokov: Lolita

Peder
Never try to understand what a woman is thinking.:rolleyes:

In a rather abstract way, dissolute is attractive, but not in reality. But its not what we want....really. And on the, um other score...don't worry, I suspect you don't have to worry on that score. ;) Your sense of humor and obvious liking of women and people in general shows in every word.

:D

SIL I don't think its the "dissolute aura" that makes Irons sexy, its his neediness that is so appealing. Sellers is just bizarre.
 
StillILearn said:
What d'ya think is the difference, pontalba? Is there a better word for the Irons brand of sexiness?
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Intense, smoldering, as I said above, needy (in the nicest sense:) ).
And what is sexier than a man that genuinely Likes women? IMO that covers a multitude of defects.

I mean, look at Mel Gibson, IMO, he is not good looking, but he puts across that he genuinely likes women, and everything about us, from our sense of humor to the way we walk.:cool:
 
(by SFG: While she is objectified by Humbert, she also uses that to her advantage. Perhaps the carrying her upstairs and other trysts were used to get him to not be so suspicious?
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Oh certainly, it was right after she'd made arrangements with Quilty on the phone. What better to get HH's mind off of who she was really phoning?

She said whilst the Spockian eyebrow traveled up to the hairline.................
 
pontalba said:
Peder
Never try to understand what a woman is thinking.:rolleyes:
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Pontalba,
OK, I'll go back to the old way -- two eyes plus natural impulses. :D
And I won't objectify. I promise :rolleyes:
Peder
 
SFG75 said:
Uhhh Peder, I'm the fat, white, pasty, cigar-smoking history teacher.;) :cool:
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SFG,
Yes I got that much, I was conjecturing further, based on what you said, that after the inattentive class was over you might still have been the only person with knowledge of the subject -- learned earlier of course, not as a result of your lecture.
Peder
 
Peder said:
Pontalba,
OK, I'll go back to the old way -- two eyes plus natural impulses. :D
And I won't objectify. I promise :rolleyes:
Peder
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Sometimes the old ways are the best.:cool:

SFG :D Better than my old and creepy American History teacher! But the one I had for Ancient History, now...she was a gem of a teacher. Someone I will never forget. Marvelous lectures. All tests were Essay Questions, and she finally had to stop me from writing and going off on tangents. Fun.
 
[B said:
pontalba[/B]]Yesss, be afraid, be verrrryyyy afraiiiidddd.........
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Okay then, I will be typing in words like:

Ellen Pifer "Vladimir Nabokov's Lolita Casebook"
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And then once again I will be demonstrating my incredible lack of will-power by performing my famous One-Click Tic Trick in my usual zombie-like fashion.

Am I on the right Nabokovian track, my friends? :eek:
 
StillILearn said:
And then once again I will be demonstrating my incredible lack of will-power by performing my famous One-Click Tic Trick in my usual zombie-like fashion.

Am I on the right Nabokovian track, my friends? :eek:
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Still,
From what I can tell the answer is a definite "Yes." The Casebook is a collection of 10 essays which are "analytical and interpretive frameworks for understanding" Lolita. There are Casebooks for "understanding various key texs in world literature and film. Each one reprints documents relating to a work's historical context and reception, presents the best critical studies, and, when possible, features an interview with the author.....Accessible and informative to scholars, students, and non-specialist readers alike"

That's based on the back-cover blurb, and, from the Introduction and first essay, it looks like an excellent collection that lives up to its descritpion. And we are definitely among its target audience. Put another way it is 206 pages devoted solely to explanations of Lolita by ten acknowledged experts (Brian Boyd among them).

Also, as far as I can tell, this forum discussion didn't do too badly in touching on many of the same topics that the experts choose to talk about. That's a compliment to this forum, but also a chance to see what truly knowledgeable people have to say about our questions and answers. It's a chance for a wonderful experience.

I hope you really enjoy it. I don't think you can go wrong.

The reading in the first essay is rather technical but not at all impossible to follow when the author gets down to cases. As usual, when experts talk, I learn some knew words. For me, for example, it was finally to see what 'synecdoche' actually means and what literary effect it has when used as a technique. "His knuckles rested against her jeans." His knuckles did that. Not he did that, or he wanted to do that, or he rested his knuckles against her jeans, or he anythinged that. His knuckles (apart from he himself) did that. Not only that, but the technique is deliberately used repeatedly by Nabokov to achieve a specific effect, and to persuade the readers thoughts and feelings into a particular direction.

The book has to mean much less to someone who hasn't read Lolita, and less also to someone who hasn't discussed the book deeply. But for members of this forum it is right on target and richly rewarding. It's a sort of everything-you-always-wanted-to-know written by exxperts.

You get the gist.
Peder
 
You see? Six thousand words where Pontalba can say it in six. Will I ever learn?" no, not in six thousand years. :(
 
Peder as the Pied Piper ...

Peder said:
You see? Six thousand words where Pontalba can say it in six. Will I ever learn?" no, not in six thousand years. :(
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Between the two of you, I not only got the gist but I also clicked the book.

I'm pretty sure, Peder, if it had not been for you ... well, I just want to say "thank you" for so caringly (and assiduously) leading us all down this particular primrose path. Probably life will never be quite the same for any of us, and I have a funny feeling that you're not through with us yet. :rolleyes:
 
Peder said:
For me, for example, it was finally to see what 'synecdoche' actually means and what literary effect it has when used as a technique. "His knuckles rested against her jeans." His knuckles did that. Not he did that, or he wanted to do that, or he rested his knuckles against her jeans, or he anythinged that. His knuckles (apart from he himself) did that. Not only that, but the technique is deliberately used repeatedly by Nabokov to achieve a specific effect, and to persuade the readers thoughts and feelings into a particular direction.

Peder
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This method is so very effective in narrowing down the readers visual field that while reading, one literally sees only the knuckles and the jeans resting just so, and the rest of the picture is only peripherally sensed, and therefore makes a much more vivid and intimate impact than if worded in one of the other ways listed above.

So, you see Peder, your sixish thousand words were in fact far more effective than my six.;)

by StillILearn I'm pretty sure, Peder, if it had not been for you ... well, I just want to say "thank you" for so caringly (and assiduously) leading us all down this particular primrose path; probably life will never be quite the same for any of us, and I have a funny feeling that you're not through with us yet.
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Yeah, what she said.:p
 
Pontalba, StillILearn,

Good morning to you,
Good morning to you,
We're all in our places,
With bright shining faces!
Good morning to you!
:) :) :)

And thank you sincerely for your very kind words.
However, forums are contributions, not one person speaking, so all thanks are really owed to all who have contributed.
I'm just the guy in the middle who keeps on talking, no matter what.
Thanks :)
Sincerely
Peder

PS But Pontalba it was who originally found the book, so there! :p
/General applause as she blushes/ Which is what I mean about contributions of all.
P.
 
Morning / afternoon all. :D

After a very enjoyable night viewing the first Lolita... I came by to tell you all how fantastic it is, though most of you already know that... After Peder advising me to watch the Irons one first, I was expecting it to be dull, with pretty charcters maybe, but little else (other than the amazing storyline, with which we're all already (quite) familiar with), but how wrong I was! Jeremy Irons doesn't fit the picture in my head of HH, but nevertheless, he was a good choice... I can see why people who have seen this version are quick to defend HH, just a little. But the character of Lolita was acted out brilliantly!! As was Quilty's.

I loved the ending! I loved it all, but especially the ending!!

There was a couple of shock moments too though... HH saying "I thought you preferred my magic fingers" :eek: But then it was an 18 certificate...
 
StillILearn said:
Well, Quilty does say (he is under some duress, I admit -- actually, he is being asked whether he prefers to be executed whilst sitting or standing):

"Ah, let me think," he said. "It is not an easy question. Incidentally -- I made a mistake. Which I sincerely regret. You see, I had no fun with your Dolly. I am practically impotent, to tell the melancholy truth ... " p.298
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I saw great humor in that part of the book. H.H. wounding Quilty 5,978 times and wrestling with him over the gun was just a hilarious picture to imagine in my mind. Just as being in love with a 12 year old is juvenile, so it seemed that this assasination attempt was....juvenile, or at least carried out with the smoothness of one who would commit the murder. The drunken friends in the front parlor and H.H.'s announcement that he shot Quilty was also a hoot. "Good!, about time someone did!" had me really chuckling. The ending doesn't do justice to Humbert's smooth and calculated way, though perhaps after realizing that his dream(i.e.-Lo) was gone and no longer his, that life wasn't worth being too concerned about with pretenses.
 
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