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Vladimir Nabokov: Lolita

StillILearn said:
Well, Quilty does say (he is under some duress, I admit -- actually, he is being asked whether he prefers to be executed whilst sitting or standing):

"Ah, let me think," he said. "It is not an easy question. Incidentally -- I made a mistake. Which I sincerely regret. You see, I had no fun with your Dolly. I am practically impotent, to tell the melancholy truth ... " p.298
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AhHa! He was too drugged/drunk to do anything. Great find SIL!

And Steffee Which Lolita?

oh, and SIL lets see, what can we make of those black marks? Hmmm. Virginal white......black marks Hh and Quilty? Anything is possible.:p And yes, I think Sellers was cruel.:(
 
Peder said:
Well, no....
Actually, I was still trying to get past just the.....well, forget about it.
Peder
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Speak more clearly, please? Past the what?

(Still, rapping the desk with a ruler, and trying her darndest to look a lot like Vivian Darkbloom.)
 
StillILearn said:
Speak more clearly, please? Past the what?

(Still, rapping the desk with a ruler, and trying her darndest to look a lot like Vivian Darkbloom.)
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ROTFALOLTIC!! Get that information outta him Viv, er, I mean SIL!
 
"Lolita Casebook" is a must read!

But speaking of meanings, wowee, woweee!

I just finished reading the first chapter in Ellen Pifers "Vladimir Nabokov's Lolita Casebook," which is called "The Art of Persuasion in Nabokov's Lolita.

It is a real tour de force in unravelling the complexity that is Nabokov's writing. Just to mention two points,

First, the author, Nomi Tamir-Ghez describes the different written and narrative techniques that Humbert uses to persuade our thoughts and feelings in his favor.

Then s/he describes the different techniques that Nabokov is using at the same time to persuade our thoughts and feelings to come out his way.

I never imagined there were two different people competing for my attention, much less that they were doing it at the same time. It's the 'at the same time' that really blows my mind! :eek:

And I will leave it to every reader to find out for themselves, in the very last phrase (of only five words), just how Nabokov did want it to turn out when all was said and done. :cool:

That chapter is like reading a detective sory that you didn't know was a detective story until the solution finally appeared.

A magnificent essay!

And incidentally, it is also like an answer book where one can compare one's thoughts and feelings with what Humbert and Nabokov were trying to have one think and feel at that point. It just blows the mind!

This is the book that will cause Lolita to never be read in quite the same way again! Not that other one.

And pontalba, many thanks for giving me a shove to get me started.

Peder
 
Peder said:
Steffee,
We once briefly touched on Nabokov's possible views on religion/afterlife, and I added confusion by saying I thought his book Transparent Things was about the topic, but amazon only seemed to say it was about memory instead. Well, the train of thought changes direction once again!

Boyd's book on Pale Fire requires that you read Pale Fire first -- not an unpleasant experience at all! :).

Transparent Things is a much slimmer read altogether, and speaks in Nabokov's own words.

Will be glad to hear what you find,
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I looked for both of those whilst away for the weekend (in Cardiff, Wales) and couldn't find anything other than Lolita, Pnin, Ada and Speak, Memory. I keep meaning to check Amazon...
 
pontalba said:
This take on the assertive Lolita is far more attractive than the old victim role. And just to be perfectly clear, she was a victim, but a victim with claws, as HH so aptly remarked that she could claw something or other into the roadway. Can't find the quote at the mo :eek: . But lets face it guys, it has taken you longer to come to this juncture in the road. The power of Lolita affected you as well. :) It is just now in the cold light of day that you have come to the conclusion that Lo was a manipulative young female. :eek:

I just hate to say I told you so. But I will. ;)

As far as Elizabeth Taylor is concerned, yeah, she has always been gorgeous, and how, in National Velvet, she was supposed to pass as a young man is quite beyond me! I remember seeing her picture on a Ladies Home Journal, I suppose in the '70's, with no makeup, and a pink towel wrapped around her hair. She was incredibly beautiful. Now how many women would have the nerve to appear on a popular magazine with No Make-Up?
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Yes, in the cold light of day, she was manipulative and used men to her advantage, to get what she wanted. In the end, that was getting away from "Big Haze" and subsequently Humbert. While she dies in childbirth, she did ultimately get away from the bad influences and then became Mrs. Schiller. It was a short run success, but a success nevertheless. The claws were invisible, it was her innocent, yet alluring nature that compelled a man to take off with her across the country and another one to follow closely behind. While she is objectified by Humbert, she also uses that to her advantage. Perhaps the carrying her upstairs and other trysts were used to get him to not be so suspicious?

On another tangent, the "male gaze" certainly does exist. I see it in my work as girls begin to notice it and they use make-up and skimpy clothing to get the boys to stare even more. By that time, the girls are smiling and winking at the boys, and the boys are staring at the unbelievably short skirts and plunging necklines, being driven crazy by impulses inside them, and no one is giving a damn what the fat, white, pasty, cigar smoking history teacher has to say about post-civil war reconstruction.:D
 
Steffee,Which one first?
Perhaps the Irons one. it is quite close to the written story and will get the story and its images firmly in your mind.

Then you can do the Kubrick one, which begins as I recall with a nice little drive along a country road followed by the absolutely flamboyant beginning provided by Peter Sellers doing Quilty. Followed soon enough by the master turn done by Shelley Winters as Charlotte. And then Shelley Winters seducing James Mason and ..... and.....

If you do it in the reverse order, the Irons one may seem a little quiet after all the spectacular fireworks of the other.

In other words, save the OMG's for last.
OMO,
Peder
 
Peder said:
Steffee,Which one first?
Perhaps the Irons one. it is quite close to the written story and will get the story and its images firmly in your mind.

Then you can do the Kubrick one, which begins as I recall with a nice little drive along a country road followed by the absolutely flamboyant beginning provided by Peter Sellers doing Quilty. Followed soon enough by the master turn done by Shelley Winters as Charlotte. And then Shelley Winters seducing James Mason and ..... and.....

If you do it in the reverse order, the Irons one may seem a little quiet after all the spectacular fireworks of the other.

In other words, save the OMG's for last.
OMO,
Peder
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Hmmmm, I'll have to rent both movies and check out the differences. I watched one of them about five years ago-I definitely need to brush up on them so I can see what all the bally-hoo is about review wise regarding each one.
 
SFG75 said:
...and no one is giving a damn what the fat, white, pasty, cigar smoking history teacher has to say about post-civil war reconstruction.:D
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SFG,
But it was fun for you to learn wasn't it? :D :D
Peder
 
steffee said:
The Jeremy Irons one it is tonight then! :)
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Sweet dreams, steffee. :)

Well, actually, I guess there are women who wouldn't find JI to be attractive (he may actually look even more dissolute than Peter Sellers, if that is at all possible, and certainly more dissolute than James Mason did), and he'll look quite old to you. :D

But I'll be very much interested to hear what you think of the Irons version, steffee. :) I loved it.
 
SFG75 said:
Hmmmm, I'll have to rent both movies and check out the differences. I watched one of them about five years ago-I definitely need to brush up on them so I can see what all the bally-hoo is about review wise regarding each one.
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I'm so glad I got them both. I can really appreciate them both now. :)
 
quoting Peder: And I will leave it to every reader to find out for themselves, in the very last phrase (of only five words), just how Nabokov did want it to turn out when all was said and done.
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Yes. Yes. Yes!! and
by PederThis is the book that will cause Lolita to never be read in quite the same way again! Not that other one.
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Absolutely!

Steffee I actually liked the Irons version better, but I still adore James Mason. But Jeremy's rendition on CD is NOT to be missed.;) Since ordering the Mason version yesterday, I will have both.

SIL Dissolute, yes, Sexy, most certainly.......:D
 
pontalba said:
SIL Dissolute, yes, Sexy, most certainly.......:D
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Pontalba,
Hmmmm. I think I'm going to have to work harder on that dissolutely sexy look. :cool: /scratching head/
Peder
 
Peder said:
Pontalba,
Hmmmm. I think I'm going to have to work harder on that dissolutely sexy look. :cool: /scratching head/
Peder
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There seems to be a fine line between the Sellers brand of dissolute and the Irons brand of dissolute. One is sexy and one is just -- weird.

What d'ya think is the difference, pontalba? Is there a better word for the Irons brand of sexiness?

dis·so·lute (disÆÃ lÁtÅ), adj.
indifferent to moral restraints; given to immoral or improper conduct; licentious; dissipated.
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Peder said:
But speaking of meanings, wowee, woweee!

I just finished reading the first chapter in Ellen Pifers "Vladimir Nabokov's Lolita Casebook," which is called "The Art of Persuasion in Nabokov's Lolita.

It is a real tour de force in unravelling the complexity that is Nabokov's writing. Just to mention two points,

This is the book that will cause Lolita to never be read in quite the same way again! Not that other one.

And pontalba, many thanks for giving me a shove to get me started.

Peder
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"Oh, noooo", she said. "Not again." :eek:
 
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