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Vladimir Nabokov: Lolita

SFG75 said:
Amazing how one guy's work has elicited more commentary and pages than all others put together on this board.
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SFG
A credit to the man and to Lolita. He hasn't been called one of the greatest writers of the twentieth century for nothing, nor Lolita one of the greatest novels. She does it every time she is discussed in a forum!
Peder
 
The Enchanter forum is now open!​

It can be found in the Fiction section of TBF and, as it says there, everyone is welcome who has any thoughts on the topic at all, whether or not having read either Lolita or Enchanter.

The idea is that this Lolita forum will remain open, and I hope flourishing, for all discussions related to Lolita. The Enchanter forum will contain that discussion, obviously, together with all comparisons between Enchanter and Lolita. It is thereby hoped that all comparisons will be in one place, so that we don't have to hunt for questions or matching answers. :eek:

So let's all enjoy both forums! :)

Peder
 
A different viewpoint on The Enchanter

Since opinions disagree so considerably about The Enchanter, I thought I'd post this opening review from the new thread here, also, as a balancing review.

Peder said:
The Enchanter is a 70 page novella built on the same triangular story structure that appeared again later and much more fully developed in Lolita, among the two triangles and many more story elements that are included in that famous book. The three characters in each case are a middle-aged man, a twelve-year old girl, and the mother of the girl. The man, a pedophile, becomes completely taken by the girl when he catches sight of her and hatches a plan to marry the mother to get at the girl. The similarity between the stories stops right there!

Nabokov described The Enchanter as "the first little throb" for his eventual grand masterpiece, and some have called it the prototype for the larger novel.

However, the Enchanter is an altogether simpler and shorter story which is totally different from Lolita in almost every further detailed respect that one can imagine, and it does stand on its own two feet as an absorbing story. It is told in a more straight-forward style, without the extensive layering, allusions and non-linearities of Lolita. It proceeds straight-through from the beginning to a stunning and climactic ending in a story that can be appreciated on first reading. Throughout, one is treated to the story telling ability of Nabokov, in being able to create a very unusual and suspenseful story, and the virtuosity of his language in creating characters and setting them in motion in the story.

The usual question "will the guy get the girl?" is stood on its head here, and the reader's emotions will be very strongly involved with that very question before the story is over. It can be read with full enjoyment without having read Lolita, with "ooh's" and "aah's" and "gasp's" along the way, while readers of Lolita will enjoy their own separate reasons for "ooh's," "aah's." and "gasp's." This is not a bed-time story, nor one for the faint of heart, but a thrilling suspenseful story, as we all wonder whether or not the pedophile will achieve his objectives, and what then?

"The spider pauses, the heartbeat halts" - VN

It is hoped that this review can satisfy the curiosity of readers who are trying to make up their mind whether they might be interested in buying or reading the book or not. As announced in the opening post, further posts beyond this one will almost certainly contain spoiler information as the discussion of the story proceeds beyond the purposes of overall review.

Peder
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I suggest that differing views of the worth of the book be discussed in the Enchanter thread rather than here. And, as usual, all views will be welcome, as they are here.
P.
 
Yes Enchanter lacks all the elegance of Lolita. Nearly every book does, for that matter, and they can't all be Lolita's, not even from Nabokov.
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In one of the links I put on the Enchanted thread, Nabokov viewed The Enchanter as being a great work, but something that wasn't fuly developed. He mentioned something about it not having "wings" or "claws" if I remember correctly. Lolita definitely was the more developed work and everything came together for him in writing it, whereas The Enchanter made a great start but somehow...just couldn't get it past page 70. It's also quite telling that Nabokov almost burned the first chapters of Lolita, but was only stopped from doing so by his loving wife. Just imagine if she hadn't.:eek:

However if one reads it. there is plenty that is worthy of note. And I might add that it sounds like the reviewer hasn't seen any pornography in a long, long time. If he had, he certainly wouldn't confuse the two.
He was spoiled by reading Lolita.
There is a somehat different review coming that you will see by tomorrow.
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Not having read The Enchanter yet, I can't solidly refute the review, but I'll leave it to say that pornography is tough to convey through writing. No matter what a person's personal values are, it's tough to determine what would be pornography. Certainly it's nothing like even the most schmaltzy romance novel and the love scenes depicted in those. Unless it's written with pages and pages of describing how the protagonist took advantage of his little charge, I fail to see how the inferences of pornography can be proved.
 
SFG75 said:
Not having read The Enchanter yet, I can't solidly refute the review, but I'll leave it to say that pornography is tough to convey through writing. No matter what a person's personal values are, it's tough to determine what would be pornography. Certainly it's nothing like even the most schmaltzy romance novel and the love scenes depicted in those. Unless it's written with pages and pages of describing how the protagonist took advantage of his little charge, I fail to see how the inferences of pornography can be proved.
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SFG,
For me it's quite simple.
If the work is illegal it is pornographic.
If it isn't then it isn't.

I distinguish between erotic and pornographic, with a legal, erotic work being just that, and not pornography.

For a very gross work, for comparison, which would probably cause many people to wince, I would suggest "Last Exit to Brooklyn." I read it a long time ago and it is still being carried on the shelves at tmy local bookshop. So I conclude that it was probably as outstanding as the reviews then said it was. And incidentally as I also thought it was.

Anyway this is a discussion that may properly belong over in Enchanter, or even bounced out to General Chat if it gains general participation and dissension. When you have the book, a carefully worded comparison of the principal erotic seduction scenes might be possible within good taste. Hope so.

Peder
 
Peder said:
Steffee,
You will, you will.
We're patient. :)
Good to hear from you,
Peder
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Speak for yourself, Peder. I can't wait! :D

Went to the library today and checked out bios on Sellers and Mason, and I ordered the Brian Boyd bio. The librarian was not the least bit familiar with the name of Vladimir Nabokov. I thought it was the way I pronounced it (Vladymeer NobOkov), but even when I spelled it our for her I saw absolutely no light of recognition. Zip. If I had said that he was the guy who wrote Lolita, then I would have seen some recognition I'll bet, but I didn't say that. ;)

And, pontalba, in the suspicions confirmed department, Sellers is described on his book's jacket as having
increasingly bizarre behavior involving psychotic violence, compulsive promiscuity, drug abuse, and humiliating self-destructive obsessions with people including ... (and they go on to say with whom.)
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Anne Todd (who's she?) says of James Mason (on his book's jacket):

There was something electric and at the same time very dangerous about James which had nothing at al to do ith conventional screen stardom. He was one of the few people who could really ffighten me, and yet at the same time he was the most gentle and courteous of men. There really was no end to our love for each other.
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Edit: I just opened the Sellers book and read where Shelly Winters is quoted as saying, "Peter Sellers seemed to be acting on a different planet." Can't you just hear her saying that? :D
 
SFG75 said:
Good thing that the weekend is almost upon us. I'll have to rent both of them for friday night and take notes.:)
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Take notes? Take notes? Good luck! You'll more likely be hanging onto your chair with both hands throughout both.

And God help anybody who wants to come in and ask dumb questions! ;)
 
StillILearn said:
And God help anybody who wants to come in and ask dumb questions! ;)
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Yeah, like "who's that then?", "what's he doing now?", "come on, you've read the book, what happens next?", "is this porn?". GRRRR!! ;)
 
steffee said:
Yeah, like "who's that then?", "what's he doing now?", "come on, you've read the book, what happens next?", "is this porn?". GRRRR!! ;)
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Grounds for strangulation, steffee. Did you remain calm? How come people don't realize that this is serious study!

And demands respect. :mad::p ;) :D
 
StillILearn said:
Grounds for strangulation, steffee. Did you remain calm? How come people don't realize that this is serious study!

And demands respect. :mad::p ;) :D
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Tsk tsk, some people eh?! :rolleyes: ;) :D
 
steffee said:
Oh yeah, and look what I found on ebay
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And how much have you bid? :D btw, anybody asks questions during the film, and they better duck fast! Tell 'em that! :D

Still I posted this over in TE, but I watched James tonight, and am about to watch Jeremy.
You know its funny, probably part of the reason I like Mason is the sense of anything can happen when hes around. ;)
I priced the Mason biography, I think I'll stick with the library on this one, Highly Unusual for me.

Boy, when Shelley went off on her screaming tangent, I about died laughing. She was Marvelous!! No One does Charlotte like Shelley!

THE LIBRARIAN DIDN'T KNOW WHO VLADIMIR NABOKOV WAS??????

beat that man with a damp, moldy book!

I shall return.
 
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