• Welcome to BookAndReader!

    We LOVE books and hope you'll join us in sharing your favorites and experiences along with your love of reading with our community. Registering for our site is free and easy, just CLICK HERE!

    Already a member and forgot your password? Click here.

Vladimir Nabokov: Lolita

Weelllll.....she sighed sleepily, that was nice.:cool: :D Yes indeedy.
If I had my druthers, I'd have the 1998 script, James Mason as HH, Shelley Winters as Charlotte, Dominique Swann (is that the last name?) as Lolita, and Frank Langella as Quilty. That my dears would be the perfect mix. As much as I like and respect his acting chops, Jeremy Irons does not create Humbert as Mason did. And, well, Shelley.....hysterical, histronic, squarely built Shelley. Dominique S. was just about right for Lo. Slightly too old, but good. Flashes of a youngster for sure.

Seeing both versions convinces me more and more of Lo's fairly naive sex play before she knows of her mothers death. But I didn't credit the sharp coldness of her manipulation, yes cold blooded manipulation of Humbert. I know.....I really know, he was a terrible pervert and a louse, but cold.......I didn't see evidence of cold bloodedness. He was driven by a passion that consumed and twisted him. And he hated himself for it.

In the Mason version, when he got the letter from Charlotte, Mason's reactions of partially supressed hysterical laughter was just perfect!! Exactly what I would expect of Humbert. The way Irons was directed was sloppy IMHO. His reaction in that scene was a bit like a dead cow.

And I appreciated that in the latter version, both Charlotte and Lo's hair was the chestnut, reddish that VN portrayed, not the blonde.

I must say that as talented as Sellers was, he ruined Quilty. Ruined. He played what he wanted to do, and frankly sometimes, like during the scene where he was supposed to be the school psycologist (BARF!), I thought Mason would break out into incredulous laughter. I saw a couple of glimpses of real laughter in his eyes that should not have been there. So, in a real way Sellers almost ruined the film. It was not his vehicle.
 
StillILearn said:
Went to the library today and checked out bios on Sellers and Mason, and I ordered the Brian Boyd bio.

And, pontalba, in the suspicions confirmed department, Sellers is described on his book's jacket as having

Anne Todd (who's she?) says of James Mason (on his book's jacket):
Click to expand...
StillILearn,
It's amazing to read such strange things about the two men. It sounds like the films were the 'normal' parts of their lives!

And never again will I doubt any female vibes from the women in this forum! Vibe away! Vibe away! :) :) :)

Er, um, not that I ever did anyway. :eek::

Peder
 
pontalba said:
Weelllll.....she sighed sleepily, that was nice.:cool: :D Yes indeedy.
If I had my druthers, I'd have the 1998 script, James Mason as HH, Shelley Winters as Charlotte, Dominique Swann (is that the last name?) as Lolita, and Frank Langella as Quilty. That my dears would be the perfect mix. As much as I like and respect his acting chops, Jeremy Irons does not create Humbert as Mason did. And, well, Shelley.....hysterical, histronic, squarely built Shelley. Dominique S. was just about right for Lo. Slightly too old, but good. Flashes of a youngster for sure.

Seeing both versions convinces me more and more of Lo's fairly naive sex play before she knows of her mothers death. But I didn't credit the sharp coldness of her manipulation, yes cold blooded manipulation of Humbert. I know.....I really know, he was a terrible pervert and a louse, but cold.......I didn't see evidence of cold bloodedness. He was driven by a passion that consumed and twisted him. And he hated himself for it.

In the Mason version, when he got the letter from Charlotte, Mason's reactions of partially supressed hysterical laughter was just perfect!! Exactly what I would expect of Humbert. The way Irons was directed was sloppy IMHO. His reaction in that scene was a bit like a dead cow.

And I appreciated that in the latter version, both Charlotte and Lo's hair was the chestnut, reddish that VN portrayed, not the blonde.

I must say that as talented as Sellers was, he ruined Quilty. Ruined. He played what he wanted to do, and frankly sometimes, like during the scene where he was supposed to be the school psycologist (BARF!), I thought Mason would break out into incredulous laughter. I saw a couple of glimpses of real laughter in his eyes that should not have been there. So, in a real way Sellers almost ruined the film. It was not his vehicle.
Click to expand...

Oh boy, Pontalba!
That's a no-holds-barred review that may well get me to change the way I look at the two films. And that is a serious compliment! Now I can hardly wait to see the films again! But I do remember that James Mason partially suppressed hysterical laughter! Perfect description!

And chestnut hair you want? I have some coming right up for you.

Peder
 
Good Morning All, howzit goin'? Is it morning yet? /yeech/
It was quite an experience watching both movies straight thru together. It really made me appreciate Mason more than ever. I thought my liking of him colored my perceptions of his performance. But empahtically NO.

And ya know in the book when Humbert was sick on the lawn? Remember the calculating look Lolita gave to him? Sort of like, well, are you going to drop dead right now? She hoped. I have to say Both Films caught that calculating quality of Lo. That particular scene was not used in the films, but in the Mason version, there was a time when he stopped on the side of the road clutching his arm, and she calmly said something about maybe it was a heart attack.....

I know that HH deserved 'what he got', but the coldness with which she stalked him, yes, stalked him was...I don't know how to put it. In other words, if she wanted to leave, she should have left. Yes, yes, I know she was a child. A child that was cold blooded and mean. I cannot think the outside world held any more terror for her than Humbert.

Both of the movies were almost incomprehensible without reading the book.
 No mention of his marriage, or Rita were made in either, only in passing to Charlotte in the beginning.

Enough.:rolleyes:
 
pontalba said:
And how much have you bid? :D btw, anybody asks questions during the film, and they better duck fast! Tell 'em that! :D

Boy, when Shelley went off on her screaming tangent, I about died laughing. She was Marvelous!! No One does Charlotte like Shelley!

I shall return.
Click to expand...

From the Sellers bio:

"I could never connect with him," Winters has said of Sellers, "and whenever I complained to Kubric ... he would agree with me. But he didn't change [Sellers'] performance, and this very frustration that I had in real life was what was so sad and funny about Charlotte. I never felt anyone was listening to me when I talked ... I didn't understand the lonely quality it gave me until I saw the film."
 
From the Sellers biography by Roger Lewis ...

Like Quilty, Sellers was not normal; his genius, too, lay in being able to produce any one of a thousand different faces or voices from up his magician's sleeve. But was it really genius? "Peter could be every living, breathing thing," said Milligan, who once stated that Sellers was more than a genius -- he was a circus freak, or sideshow, or psychiatric speciment. Pressed as t oexactly what he meant by this, Milligan continues: "Peter had such a large area of unexplored emotionalism within him, in which he could drown. He's always on the edge of ferment, of tears, of hysteria. The actual business of living makes him afraid ..."
Click to expand...

p. 346 The Life and Death of Peter Sellers
 
From The Life and Death of Peter Sellers ...

Lolita, the film, has as much connection with Lolita, the novel, as a production of Othello in which the Moor is portrayed as being white; and the sexual relations between Mason and Sue Lyon, in fact far from making us retch at the idea of the beast with two backs, are less off-putting and more chaste than Audrey Hepburn and Fred Astaire in Funny Face.
Click to expand...
:D

So, unless the viewer want to decode Mason's grimace, and attribute reasons for the suppresed violence in it -- is that why Quilty's murder is shifted to the start, so that we do not forget that this silky fellow can kill? -- Lolita avoids what it is meant to be about. Except that then there is Sellers, so full of implication and outlandishness that Winters was moved to say, "Peter Sellers seemed to be acting on a different planet."
Click to expand...
:rolleyes:

Page 345
 
OMG, Still,
Analyzing novels, even VN novels is child's play compared to unraveling the quotations you are providing! You are going to tie my world in pretzel-shaped knots. But seriously, I don't ever recall reading any comments in biographies as penetrating as those that you have presented. I think those bios are moving toward my TBR lists. If you haven't mentioned authors and titles, please do. :)
Peder
 
pontalba said:
Both of the movies were almost incomprehensible without reading the book.
 No mention of his marriage, or Rita were made in either, only in passing to Charlotte in the beginning.

Enough.:rolleyes:
Click to expand...
Pontalba,
NO! Not enough! I'm going to print out your critique(s) and study them. Keep putting thoughts down on your keyboard before you forget them! They will be invaluable to unobservant clods like me. I now have the feeling I have missed fully half of each of the films and the book. Your comments are superb!
And I kid you not, :)
Peder
 
Peder said:
Pontalba,
NO! Not enough! I'm going to print out your critique(s) and study them. Keep putting thoughts down on your keyboard before you forget them! They will be invaluable to unobservant clods like me. I now have the feeling I have missed fully half of each of the films and the book. Your comments are superb!
And I kid you not, :)
Peder
Click to expand...

Print them all out, Peder, and we'll publish them under the pseudonym of Shelly Pontalban. :D

;)Is this invisible ink, or what? ;)
 
Peder said:
OMG, Still,
Analyzing novels, even VN novels is child's play compared to unraveling the quotations you are providing! You are going to tie my world in pretzel-shaped knots. But seriously, I don't ever recall reading any comments in biographies as penetrating as those that you have presented. I think those bios are moving toward my TBR lists. If you haven't mentioned authors and titles, please do. :)
Peder
Click to expand...

The quotes you are enjoying are from Roger Lewis's The Life and Death of Peter Sellers.

I'll bet there are better Mason bios than the one I checked out. Now I want to see Shelly's Winters's books.
 
Peder said:
Pontalba,
NO! Not enough! I'm going to print out your critique(s) and study them. Keep putting thoughts down on your keyboard before you forget them! They will be invaluable to unobservant clods like me. I now have the feeling I have missed fully half of each of the films and the book. Your comments are superb!
And I kid you not, :)
Peder
Click to expand...

Oh Peder Honestly! :rolleyes: But thanks. I wrote the first one last night half asleep, but I knew if I didn't put it down right away, I'd lose it. In some review somewhere it was mentioned that since the Mason version was shot in England, it didn't catch the broad vista of the American Trek. I disagree. In fact, some of the scenery to me was more reminiscent of the American roadways than the latter version. Now that may have to do with when the films were shot. I found the Irons version had more accurate "sets" than the Mason one. When they showed Charlotte' house for example (in the Mason version), I thought it looked grander than the book house. And Lo's house at the end was more realistically placed than in the Mason version. But did you notice that in the Irons version, there was no conversation between HH and Dick? I thought that odd. It wouldn't have extended the film for more then 5 minutes or so.......and I think integral to the whole visit.

Oh, oh, and the bobby pin at the beginning and the end. Held in HH's bloody hand. (Irons). It was also shown when he found the bobby pin in the house when he was packing Lo's things.

Now that I have throughly confused everyone with "versions"......my work is done! ;) :D
 
SIL I've heard Peter Sellers compared to Robin Williams. I understand the basis they are working from, but disagree. When Williams plays a role, he plays the role. Now in Good Morning Vietnam the radio sequences were pure Williams, I've read that he did all of that stuff "off the cuff". But the other parts were more or less scripted. At least he used the parameters of the script. And in something like Dead Poets Society he went with the script. Plus, I think from the interviews I've seen of Williams, he is a genuinely compassionate funny guy.

In Lolitaduring Sellers inane ramblings at the hotel, I was irritated and bored. Now Langella for example stayed with the script.....and that wonderful exchange between Quilty and HH was preserved. That piece of dialogue cannot be topped by the idiotic chatter of Sellers.

I don't understand why the bios of Mason are SO expensive! I don't mind paying for what I read, but thats beyond the pale. IMO.
 
pontalba said:
SIL I've heard Peter Sellers compared to Robin Williams. I understand the basis they are working from, but disagree. When That piece of dialogue cannot be topped by the idiotic chatter of Sellers.

I don't understand why the bios of Mason are SO expensive! I don't mind paying for what I read, but thats beyond the pale. IMO.
Click to expand...

I agree with you on all counts, pontalba. Robin Williams cannot be compared to Peter Sellers. What on earth were they thinking? And, Kubrick added scenes to his movie that weren't even in the book. He and Sellers took unwonted (and unneeded) liberties, to my way of thinking. I liked Langella's Quilty too.

As to the bios, well, I'd check them out at the library, and if they're wonderful enough, then I'd buy them. The Mason bio I checked out wasn't all that good. I want to add a Winters bio to my collection though. I do like that woman.
 
Pontalba,
Bobby pins?
Increase my bid to 3/4ths or 7/8ths missed on each DVD and in the book!
Sheesh!
The longer I talk to you the less I know, :eek:
Rereading will apparently be no help in my dilapidated condition, :rolleyes:
Peder
 
pontalba said:
I've heard Peter Sellers compared to Robin Williams.
Click to expand...
Was this in the sentence "Compared to Peter Sellers, Robin Williams has a hit and miss sense of humour and uses speed of delivery to cover up his patchy material and remains without doubt the worst judge of a script in movie history”?

If on the other hand it was a complementary comparison can you supply a list of names and addresses so I can dedicate my life to tracking these idiots down and removing them from the gene pool?

Tv_muppet_show_peter_sellers.jpg
robin-williams-at-K2-uzbeki.jpg

..................Surrounded by Muppets.....................................Muppet surrounded

Thanks for any assistance given,

K-S
 
You must log in or register to reply here.
Back
Top