Vladimir Nabokov: Lolita

[Peder]

KS
Hit and miss sense of hmuor sounds like a compliment to me. When he is on I think he is funny. When he is off, he is worse than off. I'll offer his Armed Forces radio announcer in Viet Nam as funny. Thin but funny. There are so called comedians I can't stand, who are sometimes terrible, sometimes horrible, but always much less funny than they think they are. (Bill Maher).
peder

 

[pontalba]

Kenny
Seems to me it was in one of the links provided above by SFG75. God alone knows which one! My impression at the time was that the reviewer really thought he was paying a compliment. Hope this assistance is sufficient for your objective. love the pics!

Peder
I ROTFALOLTIC during Williams.....monologues in GMVietnam. It certainly wasn't Wms. best acting by a long shot, but it was funny.
Now as to the bobby pins.......I don't remember that from the book, just the Irons version of the film. So never fear your brain molecules are not in jeopardy!

 

[Peder]

Now as to the bobby pins.......I don't remember that from the book, just the Irons version of the film. So never fear your brain molecules are not in jeopardy!

So, Pontalba,
Which version would you suggest I view first?
Given of course that I have already seen them both a couple of times, but remember nothng like the insights you have been pointing out.
Peder

 

[pontalba]

So, Pontalba,
Which version would you suggest I view first?
Given of course that I have already seen them both a couple of times, but remember nothng like the insights you have been pointing out.
Peder

Oh Peder! I don't know what to say. Mason and Winters are far superior, but the script of the latter version is certainly mo'bettah. For adherence to the novel, I would say the Irons version. But for characterizations of Charlotte and Humbert..........Mason hands down, and try to ignore Sellers.

Ya know you said all along that Winters was the better Charlotte, but I wasn't sure until last night. Man oh Man!

 

[Peder]

try to ignore Sellers.

OK Pontalba,
I shall try to ignore Sellers in all scenes -- might even fast forward through the shooting -- and then next time concentrate on watching how Langella does it.
And I can't wait to see Shelley again!
Maybe tonight,
Maybe,
Peder

 

[Kenny Shovel]

I'll offer his Armed Forces radio announcer in Viet Nam as funny. Thin but funny.

"What's the difference between the scouts and the U.S. Army? The scouts don't have heavy artillery" is indeed a good joke and his performance in that film is probably his best, unfortunately GMV is a film almost totally devoid of plot.

As for comedians in general, the basic rule in Britain is when in doubt either:

....Impersonate a Nazi..........Dress as a woman...... Or in extreme cases, do both.


Anyway, back to Lolita,

K-S

 

[Peder]

Kenny,
I have seen that high goosestep on BBC-America.
And I still can't believe it, even when captured in a still photo!

But if we get a bunch of mail from across the pond, we'll point them to you.

Peder

 

[StillILearn]

Was this in the sentence "Compared to Peter Sellers, Robin Williams has a hit and miss sense of humour and uses speed of delivery to cover up his patchy material and remains without doubt the worst judge of a script in movie history”?

I believe that both of them suffered from the delusion that their comedic quallities were greatly enhanced by "living better through chemistry (not an unusual delusion), although I did hear Williams say that when he caught himself leaning over the crib and drooling on the baby he realized that he had to do something about his habit. He makes me laugh!

 

[StillILearn]

Anyway, back to Lolita,

K-S

__________________

I have yet to hear one single complaint in this thread about digression (of which there have been thousands), so I say -- digress away, Kenny!

 

[StillILearn]

Page 100. Who woulda thunk it? We have officially written a book.

 

[Peder]

Page 100. Who woulda thunk it? We have officially written a book.

Not I. But that little number up there just keeps goin up and up! We have anti-gravity in here.

 

[Peder]

Yet another Lolita ?

Went over to Borders this morning to do some research -- it's my favorite research library, and their holdings reward them well in my case!
I decided to look at the short story that Michael Maar in his book The Two Lolitas, claims is VN's earlier foray into a Lolita theme prior even to the Enchanter. MM mentions "A Nursery Tale" (1926) as the story, and I found it on the shelf there in "The Stories of Vladimir Nabokov" published by Vintage (1995). In The Two Lolitas Maar says,

"Nabokov had created a child-woman capable of turning the head of the hero....[She] sways past Erwin, who spins around to look at her, a child of around fourteen, in a low-cut black cocktail dress."

Considering that quote in the context of Maar's own book, one might be forgiven for thinking that he is pointing to yet another precursor Lolita story -- of which he clearly implies that the German Lichberg Lolita is the first of all.

But no, the girl is only one of nearly a dozen of all types and all ages (including grown women) that Erwin collects into his imaginary harem in the Nursery Tale. Morevoer, it is the story of a bargain with the Devil (i.e A Faust story if anything), and as with all such bargains, does not really work out as anticipated. So it seems pretty clear, to me at least, that it not a precursor Lolita story.

But here we and Maar begin to parse words more finely. Might she be the precursor to a Lolita character, even if not the precursor to a Lolita story? Perhaps, especially since VN himself could later see there a decrepit version of Humbert walking by with a nymphet on his arm.

So, it becomes clear that Mr. Maar has much more carefully calibrated eyeballs than I do (not surprisingly, given our differences in background) for seeing similarities between (all of) Nabokov's Lolita's and Lichberg's German Lolita. My own reaction, and now even moreso, is to add liberal pinches of salt to what Mr. Maar seems to be saying, and not to over-imagine what he seems to be claiming.

PS. Nabokov's own writing did nevertheless capture me (again) and now I have his Stories. (Which, for the fastidious, means I read the short story on my own hook.)

Peder

 

[pontalba]

Hoffman Street.

"You ought to be ashamed of yourself," she said quietly. "Leave me alone."

She was young, but I'm not clear as to how old she actually was. Playing with the puppy in the beginning, but walking alone late at night? Not that young.

But you mean the 14 yr old with the elderly man as the precursor?

 

[Peder]

Hoffman Street.

She was young, but I'm not clear as to how old she actually was. Playing with the puppy in the beginning, but walking alone late at night? Not that young.

But you mean the 14 yr old with the elderly man as the precursor?

Pontalba
Forget the note over on the other one. I went there first.
Let me look.
Yes, that was #1 playing with the puppy, who I thought might have been a vague Lolita precursor.

But it was the girl on p170, top of page, walking along with the tall elderly man (whom I thought VN recognized in the notes as a dilapidated Humbert walking along with his nymphet, and whom Maar also singled out as the girl) that I was also wondering about.

But then I also thought that there was a girl that Erwin definitely "turned his head" to look at, but I can't find now.

In any event, I thought Maar was stretching it a bit to see a Lolita precursor to either the story or the girl in "A Nursery Tale." Which is why I was interested in your reaction.

(And in fact, while I am at it, the scene of an elderly gentleman walking along with a dressed up 14-year old would not be unusual if she were a granddaughter, or necessarily even unusual in a dissolute Berlin, which I think the city had somewhat the reputation of being at the time, along with Paris. And which with a little imagination could provide an independent origin for VN's Lolita)

Does all that vagueness, mine or his , a Lolita make?
Peder

And it wasn't clear to me who the last girl was supposed to be the same as either. Although careful rereading (with a scorecard) might probably clear that up.
P

 

[pontalba]

A Nursery Tale

Yes, I meant the elderly man at the top o p. 170 as the precursor. But it does say that it is the granddaughter, but the wording is a bit uncertain IMO. But look at the description of the girl. Sounds like he is saying without saying that she is a nymphet.

Now the girl he looked sideways at on p.171, is the same as the first girl he picked...playing with the pupy, and I think the same as the one on p.161 that tells him the same thing.

"You ought to be ashamed of yourself. Leave me alone."

Her age all along is extremely ambigious. All together he saw her three times then, the first time on p.161, the second time on p.165, and then at the last on p.`171.

 

[pontalba]

Peder wrote(And in fact, while I am at it, the scene of an elderly gentleman walking along with a dressed up 14-year old would not be unusual if she were a granddaughter, or necessarily even unusual in a dissolute Berlin, which I think the city had somewhat the reputation of being at the time, along with Paris. And which with a little imagination could provide an independent origin for VN's Lolita)

I think you have answered a question that has been bothering me. Why does VN concentrate on that particular pecularity of humankind? Lolita. I was forgetting his surroundings at the time. /slap myself hard on the forehead/ Berlin was extremely dissolute and wanton at that particular section of history. Sort of like a person drunk and hysterical waiting for the guillotine (sp) to drop. Between the wars! How dumb can I get? That had to have a strong effect on his writing.

 

[Peder]

I think you have answered a question that has been bothering me. Why does VN concentrate on that particular pecularity of humankind? Lolita. I was forgetting his surroundings at the time. /slap myself hard on the forehead/ Berlin was extremely dissolute and wanton at that particular section of history. Sort of like a person drunk and hysterical waiting for the guillotine (sp) to drop. Between the wars! How dumb can I get? That had to have a strong effect on his writing.

Pontalba,
Actually you explain it much better than I have heard!
Someplace I saw that Paris, well-known for the can-can, was the center for those more familiar girly kinds of male interest, while Berlin was for people interested in all the other kinkier kinds of eroticism. Jus' how ya' gonna keep 'em down on the farm...?

How dumb can you get? You are not dumber than me yet, for example!

And it just dawned on me, you are up!
Welcome to the bright new day,
Just kidding D )
Peder

 

[Peder]

And that makes 1500, but who's counting?

 

[Peder]

Yes, I meant the elderly man at the top o p. 170 as the precursor. But it does say that it is the granddaughter, but the wording is a bit uncertain IMO. But look at the description of the girl. Sounds like he is saying without saying that she is a nymphet.

Now the girl he looked sideways at on p.171, is the same as the first girl he picked...playing with the pupy, and I think the same as the one on p.161 that tells him the same thing. Her age all along is extremely ambigious. All together he saw her three times then, the first time on p.161, the second time on p.165, and then at the last on p.`171.

Pontalba,
Thank you many for that post (and your effort).
Now I really am going to get to work decoding that story!
'Three times!" Never guessed. No wonder I was confused! It wasn't only the lack of sleep.
You now have your Superior Inspector Gold Medal Book Badge!
/he shows awe - meaning stands with blank look, eyes and mouth wide open, looking dumb/
Peder

 

[pontalba]

Peder
You're rotten, ya know that?

You know it just occured to me that in one of the films (I think it was the Irons) when the policeman came up alongside the stopped car where HH and Lo were, um saying Hello..... Well, wasn't he grinning like a fool? As though he knew exactly what they were up to?

Peder, when you re=watch.....look out for that.