Vladimir Nabokov: The Enchanter

[Peder]

The suggestion here is that by checking on him and talking to him about the future possibilities without her around, that she married him to take care of business(i.e.-finding a home for the daughter)

Ya know SFG
That same kind of thought crossed my mind, that the mother may have gone into the marriage with her eyes wider open than his. And perhaps that might explain the sudden evaporation of his persuasive abilities. She finally got him where she wanted him. (And resisting to the end, said 'yes.' ) Also, much earlier in the book, Arthur learns that she has checked on his finances. His shields should have gone up immediately, but he takes that as a favorable omen for his plans. heh-heh
It's just possible he got took!
That was a high stakes game they were playing, if so.
Peder

 

[pontalba]

Morning Guys! I think its morning, the sky is gray and icky....

Back in my post #185 I said:

The only thing I can think of that would be practical, would be that he would take care of her daughter financially after her death. But she didn't seem to give her daughter any other thought besides how much the child's noisyness irritated her (because of her illness). But at the end of her little speech to Arthur, she did mention the daughter.

Do ya even vaguely suppose the mother suspected Arthur's proclivities and married him anyway, after all if she investigated him, as she did, could her antipathy towards the child have been that...pervasive?

And Peder said:

Worse yet, he didn't realize how tight a leash his wife was going to keep him on. Ah, the things one discovers in marriage! His minutes away for even a minor errand are counted. His mere mention that he might visit the daughter, if a business trip takes him that way, brings a gleam of jealousy to the Mother's eyes sufficient for he himself to scuttle that idea.

Her way of saying "not yet Pal"?

Or is my suspicious brain out in left field?

 

[Peder]

Or is my suspicious brain out in left field?

Pontalba, SFG,
She definitely knew what part of the game plan was IMO.

Consider exactly the scene that SFG mentions, where Arthur lays out all the reasons that it would be better if the child lived with them, and is met with stone cold silence, and then fears he has gone too far and retreats by saying "But of course you can do as you please."
She launches into a paragraph-long explanation of how noisy the child would be. If there were 25 rooms in the house she would make everyone of them noisy! And then she ends with:

Therefore you'll have to choose between me and her.

What a masterful stroke! That is exactly the choice Arthur would have loved to have, but in the circumstances he can only deny it, and bind himself more tightly to the mother!

Ooooooooh, KERRRR_RRUNCH! She really squeezed him there!

So she knew it was the girl he was interested in, and your suggestion of how much else she surmised may not be so far out after all. To her the girl may have been bait pure and simple, irrespective of Arthiur's ultimate aims. And bait that she intended to keep to herself as long as necessary to keep Arthur caring and paying for her in her illness. (Steffee, rather recently married, shouldn't be listening to this )

Peder

 

[pontalba]

You know Peder when you mentioned VN enjoying putting the roadblocks in Arthur's way, you were right! The mother was toying with Arthur!

So, instead of the mother figure escalating in........bad mothering, we have (perhaps) the mother figure going from possible pimpdom to only jealousy (Charlotte). Charming.

If that is the case, she makes Charlotte look like "Mother of the Decade"!

 

[Peder]

You know Peder when you mentioned VN enjoying putting the roadblocks in Arthur's way, you were right! The mother was toying with Arthur!

So, instead of the mother figure escalating in........bad mothering, we have (perhaps) the mother figure going from possible pimpdom to only jealousy (Charlotte). Charming.

If that is the case, she makes Charlotte look like "Mother of the Decade"!

Pontalba,
Maybe the reverse of pimping: keeping the daughter away in order to keep him interested and at her place. But that would still be dangling the daughter as bait.

But I don't think she really meant take my daughter and leave with her, or else stay here with me. I would suppose she meant 'OK, either opt for my daughter's comfort (and affection) and bring her here, or else opt for my comfort (and affection) and leave her there.' Which isn't quite offering the daughter, but is making him show his allegiance. Which does at least show that in her own mind she realized that she was competing with her daughter. Which would put her in the same mind set as Charlotte.

I don't recall Charlotte ever giving that sort of ultimatum, though. Her's was either marry me or leave my house, because I love you too much, and so forth. Lo didn't quite come into that calculation unless that was part of Charlotte's pain at having Humbert in her house and not married to her.

As far as investigating him, it only said financial status that I recall.

But "Mother of the Decade" for Charlotte would be something new! That's a goood one! LOLOLOL

So what to say on balance?

She recognized the advantages of Arthur for his money. And got him to marry her,`perhaps for that reason alone, and for her own comfort and care in her illness first. Maybe, alternatively, for her daughter's long term well being, but it sounded like she put her own comfort first. Then, having him in the house, she realized it would be better to keep her daughter away from the house, and that would be quite satisfactory with her. But that line would make it that she at least suspected he would go after the daughter. Ah! But did she feel that she needed to use the daughter as bait to get him into the marriage? That's what's not clear. Maybe he was convincing enough that she thought he loved her, but that it was still a good idea to keep him away from her daughter. Not clear why, unless the simple jealousy that showed in her eyes..

But harking back to that package of negatives that she presented him with before he acepted, including being saddled with a daughter, I would read that as her bargaining position. Meaning 'OK if we got married here's what I wil expect you to take care of.' Which included both her care and comfort and her daughter's long-term well being. So, in that overall sense I think she definitely was taking care of business. She knew a good deal when she saw one.

Any other possibilites?

Maybe the 9th reread will make it all clear. That's 6 rereads from now. :eek

But that has worn my brain out for now
peder

 

[Peder]

Pontalba, SFG,
So does all that boil down to the following?

Arthur has the money and will agree to anything.
The mother has the financial problems and is jealous of her daughter.

Gentleman comes knocking on the door of the mother.
Mother checks his finances.
He continues to show interest.
She says well here's what it is gonna cost ya.
He says fine we got a deal.
They get married and she wants him around (he pays attention to her).
Doesn't want her daughter around (too noisy, and is also jealous of her now).
Neither one loves the other.


peder

 

[pontalba]

The only vaguely comparative episode in Lolita that I remember was after Charlotte found Humberts diary and screamed at him that he would never see that brat again, she'd fix that, or words to that effect.
Hmmm, now that I think about it, both Charlotte and Humbert threatened to send Lo to the reformatory...!

 

[pontalba]

Peder
As with most of Nabokov's prose, it is ambigious. On p. 24:

He had learned from other sources that the mother had checked on him, with results that could only have pleased her, not the least of which was a well-kept bank account.

"not the least of which".....so the bank account was not the least important to her IHO, so what else was checked on? Aye, theres the rub.
Now a bit later, she does try to present herself in a more attractive light i.e., this is what I used to look like, see I was fairly attractive. Past comeliness and all that. So, perhaps she did in fact delude herself as to his intentions, and I misjudged her to some extent. At least I was too harsh in my opinions of her.

 

[pontalba]

Also, p.28:

Even if one were to suppose you had the kind of character and sensibilities...oh, in a word, the various traits that might make you a suitable husband for me--see, I stress the word "me"--what kind of existence would you have with such a wife? ......................................... And all for what--in order to remain, perhaps in six months of so, a widower with someone else's child on your hands!"

Could be suspicious......

I don't know, I just feel as though she knew what he was after. Maybe she denied even to herself on a conscious level. But the above sentence shows that it was present on some level. Otherwise why stress the 'me' so strongly?

 

[Peder]

Also, p.28:

I don't know, I just feel as though she knew what he was after. Maybe she denied even to herself on a conscious level. But the above sentence shows that it was present on some level. Otherwise why stress the 'me' so strongly?

Pontalba,
Yes, that's the sentence that I view as part of the negotiation which began on the previous page. And the "me' might be to underline all the specifics of her, not just any woman, that she just recounted, that she very specifically wants him to realize she expects he'll accommodate to, especially financially.

But one thing. She doesn't have to offer the girl I don't think. She probably can sense that he isn't going away any time soon even if she tries to chase him with a baseball bat.

And maybe she did indeed feel that with a 12-year-old girl she had to be careful, just on general principles. I don't think he had shown any external interest in the girl to that point, had he?

Peder

 

[pontalba]

Peder wrote: And maybe she did indeed feel that with a 12-year-old girl she had to be careful, just on general principles. I don't think he had shown any external interest in the girl to that point, had he?

I would hope that would be the case. And you are quite right, he'd not shown any overt interest in the child, even going so far as to bring candy for the mother....but in reality for the child.

So probably the mother was not in fact, "selling" her daughter, only dangling a bit? Or at any rate making sure he was quite aware of his responsibilities to the child after the mother's death. Hah! As you say regarding the wolf/chicken analogy.
/sigh/ I hate giving up such an interesting theory...

 

[Peder]

/sigh/ I hate giving up such an interesting theory...

Pontalba,
I know the feeling. But with Nabokov I'm sure we'll get other chances.
Peder

 

[pontalba]

undoubtedly. YAY!

 

[Peder]

Pontalba,
I'm not so sure that the boiled down synopsis that I gave up above is necessarily the last word on the topic. But it will provide something I can be thinking about when next I reread the story of that marriage for hints, implications and innuendos. The detective work never ends, as if I needed to tell you!
Peder
PS And I would love to hear any revisions anyone wanted to make in it.

 

[pontalba]

One thing we have proven, is that with Nabokov, the hunting never ends.
For example, it was only just now with very careful re-reading that I was sure the 'marriage' was actually consumated. The ".....miraculously vanquished giantess and gazed at the moire girdle that almost totally concealed her scar." (p.40). I had to look up "eructation"....belch for us commoners. As to a comparision to Humbert's relations with Charlotte, no comparision at all really. But then Charlotte was verra healthy.

 

[Peder]

One thing we have proven, is that with Nabokov, the hunting never ends.

Pontalba,
Indeed! What prompted my remark was that I noticed the girl flitting through the pages of the wedding more than I had remembered. And I must say that Nabokov does a very convincing job of portraying a normal girl.
N-o-r-m-a-l. Normal!
With all the other strange characters he creates for comparison, she is like a breath of fresh Spring air.
Peder

 

[pontalba]

On p.52:

And while packing he happened to find in his desk a coin he had once pickd up (which, incidentally, had turned out to be counterfeit). He chuckled: the talisman had already done its job.

He would not have been amused if he'd realized what the end to his fantasy was to be. The 'talisman' did in fact do its job.....
I'm trying to remember if there was a corresponding instance in Lolita.

His plan to constantly change domiciles (p.55) could be compared to the 'road trip' aspect of Lolita, and the isolating of the girl from normal contacts as well. Arthur seemed to think that no matter what the girl's age, she would remain the same.

As he imagined the coming years, he continued to envision her as an adolescent--such was the carnal postulate.

p.56

Talk about burying ones head in the sand!

 

[SFG75]

Pontalba, SFG,
She definitely knew what part of the game plan was IMO.

Consider exactly the scene that SFG mentions, where Arthur lays out all the reasons that it would be better if the child lived with them, and is met with stone cold silence, and then fears he has gone too far and retreats by saying "But of course you can do as you please."

The silence really makes you wonder. At the same time, she could've just been annoyed that he didn't understand that she wanted some peace and quiet, as opposed to having a daughter nosily making her way around the home, making it dirty, being a pain, etc. I really don't know if I buy the theory that she knew about his proclivities, at worst, she knew that he was very *fond* of her.

 

[Peder]

On p.52:

He would not have been amused if he'd realized what the end to his fantasy was to be. The 'talisman' did in fact do its job.....

Three cheeers for the talisman! Never thought of that!

His plan to constantly change domiciles (p.55) could be compared to the 'road trip' aspect of Lolita, and the isolating of the girl from normal contacts as well. Arthur seemed to think that no matter what the girl's age, she would remain the same. p.56

Talk about burying ones head in the sand!

Pontalba,
That reverie of his goes from page 54 to 57, almost four full pages!
And I think anyone knowing of it would say "Arthur, you are out of your bleeping mind to think anything remotely like that is ever going to happen! You will be on the run from here 'til Doomsday, and you'll never have a moment's rest!"

I've heard of reveries, and then there are reveries and there are reveries, but that one absolutely takes the cake!

I've been wondering if that counts as VN's parody of a reverie.
Or if Nabokov was using it to indicate just how far out of his mind Arthur was with his scheme.
It goes beyond anything I have read in terms of fable-like quality (i.e. fabulous in the literal meaning of the word).
And it certainly sets the backdrop for how differently things will soon be turning out.
On that train, Arthur is certainly riding for a fall.

Totally amazing!
Humbert was much more realistic,
Peder

 

[Peder]

Pontalba, SFG,
She definitely knew what part of the game plan was IMO.

The silence really makes you wonder. At the same time, she could've just been annoyed that he didn't understand that she wanted some peace and quiet, as opposed to having a daughter nosily making her way around the home, making it dirty, being a pain, etc. I really don't know if I buy the theory that she knew about his proclivities, at worst, she knew that he was very *fond* of her.

SFG,
Um, yes. She could have thought he was suddenly sounding stupid about understanding her.
OTOH, perhaps that silence was her thinking over what all he had said, and silently (and shrewdly) working out what his angle must be, because it is immediately followed by her ultimatum. Even if she didn't fully realize the extent of his design, it might now seem that she had now suddenly concluded what his target must be. But I still wonder whether she wouldn't wonder about a grown man being that interested in her twelve-year-old daughter, if that was what she saw. Kids are nice, but....

So I agree that it isn't necessary to make the story go, but it does sound to me like an outside possibility that might cross her mind. Dunno.

Or, maybe in the spirit of marital harmony, she decided to give in on this one, but did it none too gracefully. Dunno about that either.

Peder