StillILearn
New Member
How about Daughter of Lolita? Not my idea, by the way, but HH's own. And Granddaughter of Lolita in his wildest dreams.
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Vladimir Nabokov: The Enchanter
- Thread starter Peder
- Start date
Peder
Well-Known Member
Still.StillILearn said:
Funny you should mention!
I was thinking of Humbert's thoughts today, because there is an ever wilder reverie in the Enchanter, as Arthur envisions what an ideal existence between himself and the daughter would be. And it goes on for quite a while. It's one of the smoldering sections. But if you want to read Utopian thinking gone berserk, Enchanter has it!
Viewed as Utopian genre it might actually be interesting, but I had trouble getting past the flames leaping off the pages.
Peder
pontalba
Well-Known Member
Rod Serling..................google is a wonderful thing! 
http://www.scifi.com/twilightzone/serling/
http://www.scifi.com/twilightzone/serling/
SFG75
Well-Known Member
Peder said:OMG SFG,
Aaaaaaaaaaaaaaaarrrrrrrrrrrrrrrrrrrrrrrrrrrggggggggggggggggghhhhhhhhhhhhhhhhhhhhhh!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!
Perish the thought!
Would you want readers by the hundreds to be throwing themselves off the tops of buildings or in front of speeding railroad trains? If VN were ever to do that, there's no telling what the reaction might be! I might even be one of them!
That is just too horrible to contemplate!
Peder
Yet more evidence that VN had a conscience. If he had done that, his earliest critics might have some serious ammunition on him. He didn't though, which is why all level-headed people realize his greatness and separate Humbert from VN.
Peder
Well-Known Member
Pontalba. SFG,
Sorry to disappear so abruptly last night. Suddenly I was actually falling asleep sitting up.
That idea of Hitchcock and Twilight Zone sounds right on the money! I think the complaint that was made in one of SFG's links (Metamorphoses?) against both Lolita films was that neither of them caught the tension between Humbert appearing so affable to us the readers (and, in reality, conning us) while at the same it was clearly apparent to us the readers that he was such a rat to Lolita. Even VN characterized him somewhere as "a wretch who gains some sympathy" or words to that effect. With that in mind it becomes even clearer what the size of the challenge was that VN set for himself in writing the story!
And at the end Humbert did have to get his just punishment, partly because the times still wouldn't have allowed another outcome, but no doubt mainly because that was how VN himself saw it. SFG, I think it is absolutely correct to tie it to VN's conscience. I never thought of it that way before!
Sorry to veer back to Lolita so much; that was the more ambiguous case. In the case of Arthur, he is so obviously creepy and despicable that Hitchcock would have had even more of a field day with that story! Brrrrrrrrrr. And Twilight Zone for not knowing what to believe? Perfect! What a blend!
That was a good party!
Glad I came,
Peder
Sorry to disappear so abruptly last night. Suddenly I was actually falling asleep sitting up.
That idea of Hitchcock and Twilight Zone sounds right on the money! I think the complaint that was made in one of SFG's links (Metamorphoses?) against both Lolita films was that neither of them caught the tension between Humbert appearing so affable to us the readers (and, in reality, conning us) while at the same it was clearly apparent to us the readers that he was such a rat to Lolita. Even VN characterized him somewhere as "a wretch who gains some sympathy" or words to that effect. With that in mind it becomes even clearer what the size of the challenge was that VN set for himself in writing the story!
And at the end Humbert did have to get his just punishment, partly because the times still wouldn't have allowed another outcome, but no doubt mainly because that was how VN himself saw it. SFG, I think it is absolutely correct to tie it to VN's conscience. I never thought of it that way before!
Sorry to veer back to Lolita so much; that was the more ambiguous case. In the case of Arthur, he is so obviously creepy and despicable that Hitchcock would have had even more of a field day with that story! Brrrrrrrrrr. And Twilight Zone for not knowing what to believe? Perfect! What a blend!
That was a good party!
Glad I came,
Peder
SFG75
Well-Known Member
Humor in The Enchanter
Greetings from the frozen tundra of the midwest!. While Peder is busy shoveling all those snow drifts in NYC, I thought I'd drop in and comment a bit on the humor in The Enchanter.
Lolita had us howling in the other thread. The idea of the old perv Humbert sneaking around to get the best angle of the girl in the yard, not to mention how Big Haze would often round him up and take him to town, thus dashing his wishes, were enough to keep a person in stitches for the entire day. Humor in TE? Just some items that had me chuckling as of late, perhaps I'm alone, but then again, I do have a bit of dry humor if I do say so.
The lecherous, leering Arthur gets close to his prey, but has a heart-attack in this one.
Caught red-handed are we!.Oh...hoo-hoo-hoo. What a good 'un!. What!?, me?
Who wears the pants in the family in this exchange?
The mother puts the smack down on Arthur on the next page as he isn't content with defeat. And now, the trumpet sounding defeat:
Oh yes, there isn't even a question. Wonder what got caught in his throat? Perhaps a canary?
On being mistaken for another man at the hotel, this one is just priceless. I could totally see this one being a Woody Allen played character.
I could just see the sputtering and futile protesting now. So close, yet think of the girl!, think of the girl!. Oh hoo-hoo-hoo!. Yes, wouldn't want to foil evil designs now would we?
Greetings from the frozen tundra of the midwest!. While Peder is busy shoveling all those snow drifts in NYC, I thought I'd drop in and comment a bit on the humor in The Enchanter.
Lolita had us howling in the other thread. The idea of the old perv Humbert sneaking around to get the best angle of the girl in the yard, not to mention how Big Haze would often round him up and take him to town, thus dashing his wishes, were enough to keep a person in stitches for the entire day. Humor in TE? Just some items that had me chuckling as of late, perhaps I'm alone, but then again, I do have a bit of dry humor if I do say so.
The lecherous, leering Arthur gets close to his prey, but has a heart-attack in this one.
Caught red-handed are we!.Oh...hoo-hoo-hoo. What a good 'un!. What!?, me?
Who wears the pants in the family in this exchange?
The mother puts the smack down on Arthur on the next page as he isn't content with defeat. And now, the trumpet sounding defeat:
Oh yes, there isn't even a question. Wonder what got caught in his throat? Perhaps a canary?
On being mistaken for another man at the hotel, this one is just priceless. I could totally see this one being a Woody Allen played character.
I could just see the sputtering and futile protesting now. So close, yet think of the girl!, think of the girl!. Oh hoo-hoo-hoo!. Yes, wouldn't want to foil evil designs now would we?
pontalba
Well-Known Member
Hah! SFG Yes! You have hit upon VN's rather inverted sense of humor. Arthur is the picture of the hen-pecked husband isn't he. But underneath a cauldron of seething fury. You know, on his "wedding night", it was mentioned that he actually went into that pharmacy, but that was the end of that thread. A bit funny to completely drop it like that I thought. Maybe he just went in and dreamed some more....
You know Peder, it is a shame that a little more tension was not displayed in either of the films of Lolita, as James Mason can "do" menacing sooo verrryy well. But in the most innocent manner. But really, there was none of that in the book, so thats that.
Twilight Zone always had the twisty ending that said, there, you cannot get ahead little man, can you? There was one that a very young Burgess Meridith played a near sighted (very) banker. He loved to read, and borrowed stacks of books from the library, and read during his lunch and breaks. Fanatically so. (hmmmmm......familiar? LOL) One day while he was eating lunch and reading in the bank vault, apparently the only quiet place for him, a bomb was dropped on his city. He came out to rubble everywhere, and everyone was dead. He was as pleased as punch, and went to the library and gathered stacks, and stacks of books to read at his leisure..............then he stumbled and.......broke his thick coke bottle glasses! You see...he was quite blind without them..... Can you hear the TZ music in the background?
You know Peder, it is a shame that a little more tension was not displayed in either of the films of Lolita, as James Mason can "do" menacing sooo verrryy well. But in the most innocent manner. But really, there was none of that in the book, so thats that.
Twilight Zone always had the twisty ending that said, there, you cannot get ahead little man, can you? There was one that a very young Burgess Meridith played a near sighted (very) banker. He loved to read, and borrowed stacks of books from the library, and read during his lunch and breaks. Fanatically so. (hmmmmm......familiar? LOL) One day while he was eating lunch and reading in the bank vault, apparently the only quiet place for him, a bomb was dropped on his city. He came out to rubble everywhere, and everyone was dead. He was as pleased as punch, and went to the library and gathered stacks, and stacks of books to read at his leisure..............then he stumbled and.......broke his thick coke bottle glasses! You see...he was quite blind without them..... Can you hear the TZ music in the background?
StillILearn
New Member
I think SFG has hit the nail on the head with this one -- period.
Peder
Well-Known Member
Psychology in Enchanter
It has seemed that critics are quick to point oh how much less of a story Enchanter is than Lolita, and then how slight a short story A Nursery Tale is in general, but even if true, I have found my enjoyment in them.
In the Nursery Tale, the narrator creates imaginary harems by collecting appealing women of all ages in his mind, children included. In fact, once he literally pursues one of them on foot to get a better look at her. Finally she reaches her door, stops and turns to say to him, in a low voice, "You ought to be ashamed of yourself."
That theme of shame reappears in the next pedophile, Arthur, who in the very opening pages of Enchanter speaks of shame and conscience in connection with the guilt he acknowldges; and, then later, of shame and cowardice scrutinizing his every step; and, still later, of furtiveness, the fear of least suspicion, complaint or innocent report; and finally of not being able to ask the chauffer to stop the car beside the road, because it would look suspicious. He has been living that life of hidden fears and torments for twenty-five years, and keeping his lust in check, until finally he embarks upon his grand plan. But he miscalculates the girl's reaction, and then his whole carefully constructed, but fragile, external life of self-respect and self-esteem is shattered. "It is all over" he exclaims. "for all was over, and it was imperative by any strategem, by any spasm, to get rid of the no-longer-needed, already-looked-at idiotic world" and he flees to his deliberate death in a truly unusual and memorable scene, to escape the total ignominy that would engulf him and he would be completely unable to face. (With a wild leap of association one might think of Crime and Punishment, where the protagonist - Raskolnikov? - commits a crime (a perfect one) early on and then wrestles with trying to live with himself for the remainder of the story, finally not being able to do that and collapsing under his own weight of guilt.)
So, in Enchanter, one can clearly see the master craftsman at work as he carefully lays the psychological groundwork early, to create an entirely plausible (and just) ending later.
And that from an author who would so frequently mock psychology and psychiatry in later works!
peder
It has seemed that critics are quick to point oh how much less of a story Enchanter is than Lolita, and then how slight a short story A Nursery Tale is in general, but even if true, I have found my enjoyment in them.
In the Nursery Tale, the narrator creates imaginary harems by collecting appealing women of all ages in his mind, children included. In fact, once he literally pursues one of them on foot to get a better look at her. Finally she reaches her door, stops and turns to say to him, in a low voice, "You ought to be ashamed of yourself."
That theme of shame reappears in the next pedophile, Arthur, who in the very opening pages of Enchanter speaks of shame and conscience in connection with the guilt he acknowldges; and, then later, of shame and cowardice scrutinizing his every step; and, still later, of furtiveness, the fear of least suspicion, complaint or innocent report; and finally of not being able to ask the chauffer to stop the car beside the road, because it would look suspicious. He has been living that life of hidden fears and torments for twenty-five years, and keeping his lust in check, until finally he embarks upon his grand plan. But he miscalculates the girl's reaction, and then his whole carefully constructed, but fragile, external life of self-respect and self-esteem is shattered. "It is all over" he exclaims. "for all was over, and it was imperative by any strategem, by any spasm, to get rid of the no-longer-needed, already-looked-at idiotic world" and he flees to his deliberate death in a truly unusual and memorable scene, to escape the total ignominy that would engulf him and he would be completely unable to face. (With a wild leap of association one might think of Crime and Punishment, where the protagonist - Raskolnikov? - commits a crime (a perfect one) early on and then wrestles with trying to live with himself for the remainder of the story, finally not being able to do that and collapsing under his own weight of guilt.)
So, in Enchanter, one can clearly see the master craftsman at work as he carefully lays the psychological groundwork early, to create an entirely plausible (and just) ending later.
And that from an author who would so frequently mock psychology and psychiatry in later works!
peder
Peder
Well-Known Member
Preparation in Enchanter
Preparation of a different sort is also is evident in Enchanter.
Some time back, I read John Irving's "A Widow for One Year" and was iintrigued that the narrator described how a story should be told. In addition it was clear, just by looking, that John Irving was telling his own story following the advice of his own narrator [!]
The one bit of advice I remember is that the aiuthor should never surprise the reader. Whatever twists or surprises the author might have in mind, he should always have prepared the reader in some way to recognize them when they occur, rather than having them come as complete surprises that leave the reader floundering.
VN is no stranger to that technique either.
On pages 15-16, Arthur is describing the all encompassing sensations that the girl induces in him by her mere presence
Anyone who has finished the book, and rereads, certainly recognizes in those final phrases a pre-announcement and preparation of the reader for the book's final ending.
In addition, Arthur's extended reverie (pp 54-57) of how wonderful the future will be when he and the girl are living alone, in addition to being a massive mis-calculation, also seems to me to be a preparation and hint of things to come in the eventual hotel-room scene when he is finally alone with the girl. Or viewed another way, VN gets two bites of the apple in being able to describe how perverted and delusionary were Arthur's obsessions.
Finally I would offer the image of "The spider pauses, the heartbeat halts," that VN inserted early in the story.
I found the final scenes of Arthur with the girl, in both reverie and hotel room, incrediby creepy! When VN began his descriptions, my breath stopped and I thought to myself "OMG! Where is he going with this line of thought, and just where on Earth is this going to end up?" It wasn't until Arthur was at last leaving the scene in the hotel that my breathing returned to normal. But, in the meantime, I could think of nothing so much as that spider, as Arthur crept around the sleeping figure of the girl on the bed and "did not know where to begin." The image in my mind was of a spider circling its prey, already trapped in the web, wondering how best to gather it into it its clutches.
Eeeyyooch! But VN's early mention of the spider had done its job!
A slender story, with nothing much going on? Try to believe it!
Peder
Preparation of a different sort is also is evident in Enchanter.
Some time back, I read John Irving's "A Widow for One Year" and was iintrigued that the narrator described how a story should be told. In addition it was clear, just by looking, that John Irving was telling his own story following the advice of his own narrator [!]
The one bit of advice I remember is that the aiuthor should never surprise the reader. Whatever twists or surprises the author might have in mind, he should always have prepared the reader in some way to recognize them when they occur, rather than having them come as complete surprises that leave the reader floundering.
VN is no stranger to that technique either.
On pages 15-16, Arthur is describing the all encompassing sensations that the girl induces in him by her mere presence
Anyone who has finished the book, and rereads, certainly recognizes in those final phrases a pre-announcement and preparation of the reader for the book's final ending.
In addition, Arthur's extended reverie (pp 54-57) of how wonderful the future will be when he and the girl are living alone, in addition to being a massive mis-calculation, also seems to me to be a preparation and hint of things to come in the eventual hotel-room scene when he is finally alone with the girl. Or viewed another way, VN gets two bites of the apple in being able to describe how perverted and delusionary were Arthur's obsessions.
Finally I would offer the image of "The spider pauses, the heartbeat halts," that VN inserted early in the story.
I found the final scenes of Arthur with the girl, in both reverie and hotel room, incrediby creepy! When VN began his descriptions, my breath stopped and I thought to myself "OMG! Where is he going with this line of thought, and just where on Earth is this going to end up?" It wasn't until Arthur was at last leaving the scene in the hotel that my breathing returned to normal. But, in the meantime, I could think of nothing so much as that spider, as Arthur crept around the sleeping figure of the girl on the bed and "did not know where to begin." The image in my mind was of a spider circling its prey, already trapped in the web, wondering how best to gather it into it its clutches.
Eeeyyooch! But VN's early mention of the spider had done its job!
A slender story, with nothing much going on? Try to believe it!
Peder
pontalba
Well-Known Member
That is exactly the quote that made such an impression on me in the beginning! It just seemed to cover the entire attitude of Arthur.
In Jane Eyre there is a passage that is reminicent of that quote. It is Mr. Rochester's made during his declaration of love and proposal of marriage to Jane in the garden.
Of course this a (fairly) normal man speaking to a grown woman, but the feeling of the passage is quite similar.
How true! I was reading so fast, I am surprised the pages were not actually seared. Well, that and the subject matter..........
It did seem as though VN took the character of the old man with the 14 year old as a successful version of Humbert 30 years down the road.
Peder
Well-Known Member
Pontalba,pontalba said:
It may just be that one of the reasons the spider came to me so immediately was because I saw it appear in your signature line as soon as you read Enchanter.
The quote from Jane Eyre is wonderful and very similar in thought. I read that book long long ago and forgot completely anythng about the writing, but from that example it appears like a pleasure to read.
I agree about those scenes. It would seem that VN decided to paint himself a couple of very vivid word pictures, or vivid enough when combined with one's imagination! But the images they convey still sound "off" to me, in ways difficult to describe. The image of the spider coming to mind being one indication. The wild extravagances of the reverie being another. And I suspect, without proof, that VN wanted to suggest that was specifically how Arthur's mind worked.
Re VN's thoughts over 30 years, some things apparently were in his mind that he kept working at to produce improvements, while some parts remained remarkably the same. Arthur is 40, as I believe Humbert is. But also, even though I can't place it as usual, I'm pretty sure 25 years is mentioned in Enchanter, just as 25 years elapsed between Annabel and Lo. And even Erwin went through a long 'suppressed' phase between his earliest unsuccessful youthful encounter and the time of his story (thus making all three of them to do so), but no years given. And of course there was the girl on roller skates in two stories. And a Quilty is even seen, by someone I read somewhere, in the intrusive chaufeur of Enchanter. And did I see a Devil's familiar in the cat that the daughter sees (doubled!) when they finally stop at the hotel and some evil is about to happen?
It's almost like a magical single collection of jig-saw puzzle pieces that produces a different picture every time he puts them together.
And, oh yes, there is the apartment that he and Vera lived in, early on, that he himself said he had rented to several different couples in the course of his writings. Plus he spoke of creating 'sets' that he would use in his stories. And these too might presumably have hung around to extend the lives of the imaginary realities he would create. It's a fascinating creative process to see at work. It's not just words appearing magically out of nowhere. And sometimes when I read about his writing, it seems to me he wrote quite fast. But I don't have a ready example for that, apart from the fact he was prolific as few wrters are. A fascinating author at work.
Peder
pontalba
Well-Known Member
Peder said:
I have no doubt that he was portraying Arthur's mind set. It seemed almost like a domino effect. His imaginings leading to more and more outlandish visions. A sponge....puleeze.
On p. 6....yes Arthur is 40. But I seem to remember that Humbert was 38, he was 13 with Anabelle, and it was 25 years later he found Lolita. 38 or 40, its the same difference though IMO. I thought the guy in Nursery Tale was younger, maybe only around 28-30ish?? I'll check later, I don't have the book to hand at the moment.
I did read about the comparision of the chauffeur to Quilty, but only found one vague reference that could support that claim, p. 62 when they stop for a meal before arriving at the hotel:
I would guess that the cat seemed to be doubled in her vision because of her sleepiness. Sometimes when I am tired, my vision doubles whatever I am looking at if I relax.
Peder
Well-Known Member
Pontalba,pontalba said:
'Domino effect' of adding layer upon layer to his improbable vision corresponds exactly to my subliminal recollection. I had thought to describe it as a sundae with layer after layer of whipped cream, syrup, cherries, more whipped cream, more syrup, more cherries etc, etc
Shows where my tastes lie! The ages will take some sorting out; apparently they are not as precisely the same as I thought, since your 13 for Annabel would make Humbert younger by the two years. Someday I'm going to have to do those two algebra puzzles that he gives about ages.`/groan/
And wasn't it just odd that the chauffeur suddenly developed eyes for the little girl on that trip? Men!!!
But yes, the cat was being seen doubled through the daughter's drowsing eyes.
Peder