Vladimir Nabokov: The Enchanter

[Peder]

.... but what do you suppose it was that was so troubling to him that he kept trying to 'cure' it?

The imp inside my head is screaming, "His conscience! He was hoping to somehow ditch his conscience inside one of those places!"

This is, of course, a malady from which Arthur did not suffer.

STILL IS BACK! EVERYBODY
STILL IS BACK!​

Still,
Where would we be without your incredible questions and your utterly fantastic insights? (And don't go away again! You scared us half to death )

If that isn't the reason he checked himself in so often, then VN truly missed a chance and wrote the story wrong. That ought to be the reason!

It ought to be! It ought to be! It ought to be!

My own thought that it was for his own peace of mind, to lower the torment of desire within himself, sounds so pale by comparison. But with Pontalba first banging me on one side of the head, and now you on the other, I'm beginning to hear the message. He was a man at war with himself: on the one side his desires, on the other side the part of him that said he didn't want those desires (especially when they threatened to overwhelm him).

Am I getting closer?
This is going to be one fascinating reread!
Peder

And PS, Welcome back, in case you didn't get that.

 

[pontalba]

SIL I had a feeling I'd obtained, perhaps by osmosis, I wasn't sure---the knowledge that appears on p.34 of Lolita:

The reader will regret to learn that soon after my return to civilization I had another bout with insanity (if to melancholia and a sense of insufferable oppression that cruel term must be applied). I owe my complete restoration to a discovery I made while being treated at that particular very expensive sanatorium. I discovered there was an endless source of robust enjoyment in trifling with psychiatrists: cunningly leading them on; never letting them see that you know all the tricks of the trade; inventing for them elaborate dreams, pure classics in style (which make them, the dream-extortionists, dream and wake up shrieking);.............

It seems to me that Humbert had "control issues", thus the desire to lead the shrinks on down the garden path. But he certainly suffered from melancholia, and why oppression? Doesn't it seem that the oppression was in fact his conscience berating him for his inclinations? Dr. Jeckyl and Mr. Hyde in a perhaps milder and less physical form?

 

[Peder]

Peder
"Come back to his senses". Thats about it. When the whole thing started observe HH's feelings--p,140 Lolita

Whew! Talk about torn feelings and see how everything hinged on Lolita's feelings. I have to suppose that is why in my mind she shouldered a large portion of the blame. Which is unfair. She was a child, and should not be expected to understand the ramifications of her "moodiness" and "curiosity". But still................/sigh/

Pontalba,
Leave it to you to find exactly the right quote. I don't know how you do it so often, so quick and so unerringly. I didn't remember that paragraph (from p.140) and it is so powerful I almost have difficulty imagining it came out of Lolita (Sorry VN ) But talk about a man in turmoil, that's him! Isn't the usual phrase "She drives me crazy?" Well, Lolita sure did it to him!
Peder

 

[Peder]

Somewhere, sometime ago I read/heard/saw somewhere that the "cure" rate for pedophiles is so low as to be non-existant. True? I certainly don't know, but I suspect it has more than one grain of truth to it.

Pontalba,
It might be that you have heard me say it, because that is my own impression too.
In which case your implied question of whether mental care would have done any good for Humbert (or Arthur) is a fair question. My own reaction has always been that pedophiles should not be let loose back into the general population, from what I have seen of the recidivism that occurs (someitmes within days! ) But I am certainly no expert and know no more than the next guy.
Peder

 

[pontalba]

Pontalba,
It might be that you have heard me say it, because that is my own impression too.
In which case your implied question of whether mental care would have done any good for Humbert (or Arthur) is a fair question. My own reaction has always been that pedophiles should not be let loose back into the general population, from what I have seen of the recidivism that occurs (someitmes within days! ) But I am certainly no expert and know no more than the next guy.
Peder

Actually, there was a film made years ago, with Stuart Whitman playing a pedophile released from prison. He was reformed, but no one believed it. It was a semi-documentary style film, and they quoted recovery rates. Not much, maybe 1 or 2% at the most.
And I agree, Under the Jail is too good for someone that does that crime.

 

[StillILearn]

Yes, he was highly nervous about the whole thing, but it was as though a cheetah had spotted a gazelle on the open plain unprotected.

This is certainly chilling, pontalba. Even VN, I venture to say, would be proud of a sentence like this one.

 

[StillILearn]

Peder =

My own reaction has always been that pedophiles should not be let loose back into the general population, from what I have seen of the recidivism that occurs (someitmes within days!

Dear Peder, how could any woman resist your wiles?

Ahem.

Now it has always been my understanding that pedophiles are usually (if not always) created by childhood molestations of their own. VN goes to the greatest lengths to assure us that HH's childhood was sunny and serene, aside from the small fact of his mother's having been struck by lightning. That small occurance is dealt with as an aside -- Pft! she's gone -- and HH remains as the treasured only child.

VN insists upon it.

 

[pontalba]

SIL wrote: VN goes to the greatest lengths to assure us that HH's childhood was sunny and serene.....VN insists upon it.

Hmm, me thinks the lad doth protest too much.
Firstly. Mother dies violently, no matter how you slice it, thats gotta hurt.
Secondly. Good hearted but inattentive father. Which means no strong male figure to emulate. Plus all the um, ladies, that dear daddy changes weekly upon his arm.
Thirdly. The one stable figure, the aunt, is put upon by the father, and then predicts her death, and then fulfills said prophecy. IOW a maryter.

All this is not IMO a recipe for a stable and wonderfully blissful childhood. Recall the way he latched onto Annabel. She was unobtainable. Just as HH's father was to his aunt.
Slam goes down the pot lid. Simmer until done 25 years later......Lolita.

 

[Peder]

Slam goes down the pot lid. Simmer until done 25 years later......Lolita.

Pontalba,
I just absolutely LOVE your theory for character development! And I mean that very sincerely, even if I am chuckling. I don't know a better way to express living for 25 years with a set of unfulfillable desires. Marvelous metaphor! /still chuckling/
But meanwhile I'm back in my other mode, just sittin here and listenin, rockin back and forth, lettin the insightful younguns splain it all to me. And I kid you not Pontalba, you can put more meat on the bones of a character than I can ever think of.
Peder

 

[pontalba]

I know its rather simplistic, but sometimes simple is better.

Sittin' and a rockin' eh?

Yeah,

Rite!

Why Shucks, I'm jes' a simple lil ole gel from down yonder.....

 

[Peder]

Sittin' and a rockin' eh?

Ay-uh!

....

 

[pontalba]

Ay-uh!

....

care to elaborate?

 

[SFG75]

Yes, he was highly nervous about the whole thing, but it was as though a cheetah had spotted a gazelle on the open plain unprotected.

Now that is an apt comparison, and it alludes to the reason as to why that segment of the population is most likely to re-offend. Not that it's in their *nature* but asking them to stop is like asking a Cheetah to go vegan. Humbert tried to convince himself that he wanted to be a good father, that he wanted to provide for Lo. Arthur was blunt and honest with himself as to what his ultimate goal was. Never before, had an opportunity like this become so obtainable. Parents are around in parks, not to mention the home. He really did build up the level of anticipation for himself, did'nt he?

 

[Peder]

care to elaborate?

Pontalba,
I thought some more enlightenment might be coming and I was prepared to sit back and just plain admire it! But now it's morning and maybe my brain cells can be called upon for some serious thought. It's still before coffee, but I can make a major effort.
Now let me see,
Peder

 

[SFG75]

Peder =

Dear Peder, how could any woman resist your wiles?

Ahem.

Now it has always been my understanding that pedophiles are usually (if not always) created by childhood molestations of their own. VN goes to the greatest lengths to assure us that HH's childhood was sunny and serene, aside from the small fact of his mother's having been struck by lightning. That small occurance is dealt with as an aside -- Pft! she's gone -- and HH remains as the treasured only child.

VN insists upon it.

Perhaps that is why VN included the part about him being married before? In reading it, I couldn't help but wonder if it wasn't just some form of justification for H.H. His wife leaves him for some foreign cab driver and so he now craves the young and innocent that won't hurt him again. He also had that first love when he was much younger that passed away. At the same time, I don' know many(i.e.-any) people who are still trying to date 16 year olds because their first love experience ended on a sour note.

 

[Peder]

Perhaps that is why VN included the part about him being married before? In reading it, I couldn't help but wonder if it wasn't just some form of justification for H.H. His wife leaves him for some foreign cab driver and so he now craves the young and innocent that won't hurt him again. He also had that first love when he was much younger that passed away. At the same time, I don' know many(i.e.-any) people who are still trying to date 16 year olds because their first love experience ended on a sour note.

SFG,
You suggest good reasons for us to go back and reread those lurid 'cruising' sections of his background again, and very carefully. Because, by the time he sees Lolita, it was basically boiled down to the single idea: 'There was Annabel again.' And then still later, after Lolita, there was Rita whom he seemed to want just simply for his normal desires, and who also did the most good for him. So there seems to be a progression there. And one might dig out the beginnings of his abnormal desires in those early secions, now that we know what we are looking for.

Peder

PS See, Pontalba? I tol ya if I just set and rocked a bit, some one of you smart yung uns would come along with good ideas.

P.

 

[pontalba]

Perhaps that is why VN included the part about him being married before? In reading it, I couldn't help but wonder if it wasn't just some form of justification for H.H. His wife leaves him for some foreign cab driver and so he now craves the young and innocent that won't hurt him again. He also had that first love when he was much younger that passed away. At the same time, I don' know many(i.e.-any) people who are still trying to date 16 year olds because their first love experience ended on a sour note.

But don't you see, his marriage was a sham. He wasn't interested in any mature woman read this: (p.25 Lolita)

Although I told myself I was looking merely for a soothing presence, a glorified pot-au-feu, an animated merkin, what really attracted me to Valeria ws the imitation she gave of a little girl. She gave it not because she had divined something about me; it was just her style--and I fell for it.

And the paragraph just prior to that one refers to the fact that his choice was prompted by "a piteous compromise".

No our dear Humbert's "taste" in females was cast that long ago day by Annabel. He did not vary.........until the very end p.277

--and I looked and looked at her, and knew as clearly as I know I am to die, that I loved her more than anything I had ever seen or imagined on earth, or hoped for anywhere else. She was only the faint violet whiff and dead leaf echo of the nymphet I had rolled myself upon with such cries in the past; an echo on the brink of a russet ravine,with a far wood under a white sky, and brown leaves choking the brook, and one last cricket in the crisp weeds...but thank God it was not that echo alone that I worshipped.............................You may jeer at me, and threaten to clear the court, but until I an gagged and half-throttled, I will shout my poor truth. I insist the world know how much I loved my Lolita, this Lolita, pale and polluted, and big with another's child.........

So you see, Valeria and poor little Rita who everyone left were not part of any 'maturation' process for Humbert. But in the end Lolita herself.......was.

 

[StillILearn]

Here's something that puzzled me even while I was first reading the book: I've always thought that pedophiles (regardless of whether they go after young girls or young boys) are usually insecure in their relationships with adults, and therefore choose children because they're more easily dominated. HH is different. HH felt comfortable about his ability to dominate and outsmart adults (men and women), and he wasn't attracted to girl children below (or after) certain ages. The first budding of his "nymphet"s sexual maturity seemed to be what was arousing to him. HH makes several references to Lolita's beginning signs of womanhood, although he seemed to have wanted her to stay at that exact spot where she only was showing only the very first signs.

It was only the very early prepubescent that he was attracted to, but he was able to function sexually with an adult woman. HH just wasn't your run-of-the-mill pedophile.

In The Enchanter there is also reference to the little girl with the low-cut dress and the make-up.) I don't see how the Annabelle episode would explain all of this. Evedrybody has had a first love.

Edit: ( I see that you and I were busily analyzing HH at the same time, pontalba! How he would have hated that!)

 

[pontalba]

SIL Yes, everyone has a first love without being branded by that flame the way Humbert was. But remember that HH was for one thing in a vunerable state when he met Annabel. My earlier post #408 explains my reasoning there.

But every pedophile, like every other person on the planet is different to a great extent. The same flaws mixed up differently in each lets say.

And when he functioned with mature women, he usually fantasized about nymphets.

 

[pontalba]

Also: p. 14

I also know that the shock of Annabel's death consolidated the frustration of that nightmare summer, made of it a permanent b=obstacle to any further romance throughout the cold years of my youth.

So HH traced his pedophlia back to that/her as well.