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Vladimir Nabokov: The Enchanter

Peder Yay Team! :D

SIL You know thats the generation Vera came from. Women blamed themselves. But are we really so different now? I don't think so. Only we know with our head that its not our fault, the heart says otherwise. Silly I know. I have not read that part yet, but I cannot say that I am surprised one bit. He would think it his right. Of course he is wrong!! but whattya gonna do, he is/was what he was. We cannot expect him to have any less layers than his novels and characters.

And the older I get, the more I know we have to accept the unlikable parts of people that we care about. Not condone, but accept.
 
StillILearn said:
Page 92.

"To Irina, Vladimir had confessed that he had had a series of fleeting affairs --" (Meanwhile Vera is working her fingers to the bone and trying to be all things to him. And Vera blames herself ! Meanwhile there's a lot to be learned about writing here and you, Peder, are pointing most of it out to us. Keep up the good work!:cool:
Still,
Mne tnx.
On it!
Taking it up to lunch with me.
CUL
Peder

But then it sounds like you won't appreciate how they move the luggage from the car into the house after a trip or a move either. :(
I'll be back.
P
 
pontalba = And the older I get, the more I know we have to accept the unlikable parts of people that we care about. Not condone, but accept.


As a reader, I will forgive him much -- anything, if he continues to bemuse me -- but as a woman ...

...I'm Still, just a little bit pissed off.;)
 
Oops, Still,
That previous was late going out. It sat on Preview all during lunch and I have just now sent it. :(

The whole Irina story of pages 85-94 indeed makes unhappy reading, and the brief paragraph of confession on p 92 is beyond any compassion or understanding at all! I don't understand men behaving like that, even though I have known one or two who did. I'm sorry to say I had forgotten all of that from Vera, and certainly didn't have it in mind when I have ever said that there are scenes in reality in Vera that surpass any in fiction. I had in mind adventures with a somewhat more comical cast to them at Cornell. But I can well underatand your rage and share in a good bit of it myself.

Don't know what else to say, :(
Peder
 
But then it sounds like you won't appreciate how they move the luggage from the car into the house after a trip or a move either.

He probably has her balance it on top of her head and carry it. No wonder her hair went completely white in her forties.
 
StillILearn said:
Shall we lynch him? :)
Still,
It is pretty much what comes to mind.
I know I never had any respect afterward for the guys I found out behaved that way. My sympathies were all for the one heartbroken wife whom I did happen to know.
As for how the VN's unpack the car, you are fairly close. :)
Peder
 
by SILAs a reader, I will forgive him much -- anything, if he continues to bemuse me -- but as a woman ...

and I said And the older I get, the more I know we have to accept the unlikable parts of people that we care about. Not condone, but accept.
but that doesn't mean that I would accept that behavior in my husband. A very definite choice would have to be made. :(

Everybody's level of acceptance is different. Much depends on the background of all involved. But on a personal level, I could not look at the person in the same light as before knowledge. But thats the beauty of not being personally involved with VN. I didn't have to live with him. And I am quite sure would not have.
 
pontalba said:
I didn't have to live with him. And I am quite sure would not have.
Pontalba,
But that's the strange part of it. I had thought of it as a long happy marriage, obviously having forgotten about the episodes we're talking about. But certainly 'long,' and I would still say 'happy,' based on my recollection of what the rest of Vera says. She certainly put enormous amounts of effort into her part of it, so she seemed to want to make it go. I can't imagine an only grudgingly satisfied person doing what she did, much less a dissatisfied person who was only going through the motions. And he seemed to have calmed down, or run out of drive. So it ended up more than working, as far as I can tell.

Gotta reread, now Vera /groan/
Peder
 
Peder As I said before, that generation of women was perhaps, I don't know, more tolerant or more understanding. I'm not saying that I would not forgive a man for what VN did if other areas were on an even keel, and he'd straightened out so to speak. But on the whole, I don't think I'd have been comfortable with the personality of Nabokov. His brain was way to circuitious for my taste in a mate. As a novelist however.....right up my alley. :)
 
pontalba said:
Peder As I said before, that generation of women was perhaps, I don't know, more tolerant or more understanding. I'm not saying that I would not forgive a man for what VN did if other areas were on an even keel, and he'd straightened out so to speak. But on the whole, I don't think I'd have been comfortable with the personality of Nabokov. His brain was way to circuitious for my taste in a mate. As a novelist however.....right up my alley. :)
Pontalba, StillILearn,In rereading those pages my respect for Stacy Shiff as an author went up as my respect for VN went down. She has quite a few humorous comments along the way -- sardonic may be the word. Like the relevance of Gogol's advice for VN's correspondence with Vera while hiding his affair, "Leave out only the important parts." :D For some reason I regard that as wildly hilarious. And she has some other insightful one-liners as well. Which must be why the book is easy to read. She has the right blend of impartial accuracy and human appreciation for the foibles of her subject(s).
peder
 
The review from amazon posted by SFG some time back, in addition to all its other criticisms of Enchanter, faulted it for having a story that was not very interesting. That reviewer described it as largely being 'the lurid musings of the old rake,' or words to that effect. While it may depend somewhat on one's meaning of 'lurid,' I would still disagree with that assessment.

The Enchanter is of course nowhere near as extensive nor as varied as Lolita in its overall story. A comparison of 77 pages against 310 pages might lead one to suspect as much, even without reading the two books.
However, the story line of Enchanter is actually quite different from the corresponding part of Lolita, and for a particular reason.

The twelve-year-old Lolita is virtually delivered into Humbert's hands with almost no effort on his part, as the result of two very fortunate acccidnts. First of all, marrying the mother turns out to be no problem, since it turns out that Charlotte falls hopelessly in love with Humbert and forces the issue by suggesting he either move out of her house or that they get married. Faced with this sudden gift from Heaven, Humbert quickly sees the merit of marriage, and so they do.

Fifty days later, she finally gains access to his diary and discovers his complete lack of love for her. She hurries out of the house to mail some letters she has written and is killed by a passing car.

So Humbert ends up as Lolita's nominal stepfather with almost no direct effort on his part. And then the bulk of the Lolita story begins.

In Enchanter, the initial situation is somewhat different, so the ensuing story is also different, and it turns out to be not so easy for Arthur to get the girl into his posession. He has to work for it.

When he first catches sight of the girl she is in the care of a 'guardian,' or permanent baby-sitter, and the mother lives out of town. Furthermore it will turn out that Arthur has to woo the mother to gain her favor. So Arthur methodically develops a plan which he proceeds to follow. However, that plan involves first gaining the confidence of the guardian, then gaining an introduction to the mother through the guardian, then gaining the mother's favor, and then finally getting her to say 'yes.' As in real life, none of those steps has a foregone outcome, and a considerable part of the book is the description of just how Arthur does go about making progress with his plan.

The girl is of course the end objective of the plan, but that does not mean that Arthur spends the middle part of the book in lurid imaginations regarding the girl, as the reviewer suggests. Instead the reader is treated to a rather interesting tour, as Arthur makes his way, negotiating each of the individual steps of his plan, before he even gets close to the girl.

On its own small canvas, and in its own varied ways, the Enchanter provides a miniature equivalent to the varied cross-coutry tours that appear in Lolita.

Once Arthur does get near the girl, however, the story is quite near its end, and it wraps up rather quickly and suddenly. That is also different from Lolita, but that is for another time.

Peder
 
Peder
Yes. In a way The Enchanter is a mirror (reversed or negative) image of Lolita. I'd not thought of it that way. Arthur works and trudges about trying and trying to obtain his goal. Humbert simply has it handed to him on a silver platter. And the end, ah, the end.....is completely opposite as well. Plus death comes, but in such a different manner! And the girl has quite a different fate as well. More on that later as well.

And the tour as you call it of his interior plotting and planning as opposed to the geographic tour of America. Great analysis Peder!

Now one thing that corresponds is the planned tryst with the girl while the mother is in the hospital. Both come to naught. p.47
 
pontalba said:
Peder
Yes. In a way The Enchanter is a mirror (reversed or negative) image of Lolita.
Now one thing that corresponds is the planned tryst with the girl while the mother is in the hospital. Both come to naught. p.47
Pontalba,You bet! Many things are directly opposite, like the personalities of the two girls. And the two mothers. No Shelley Winters here! And some things are different, like the personalities of Arthur and Humbert. Arthur is so mean-spirited. Cool, calculating, mean spirited and with a temper. Humbert seems more like a friendly Hummy in so many ways. But both are genuine pedophiles. All in all, it seems to me easier to find differences than similarities once one gets beyond the very-top-level description of the story (pedophile marries mother to get at young daughter).

Another difference is that here we really get descriptions of what the girl acctually looks like, and on several occasions. In Lolita, it was like pulling teeth to scrape together details about Lo's appearance! Only Humbert could see her! :) And I was always curious.

As for the analysis, once again I got the feeling that the reviewer and I didn't read the same book, which was partly why I wrote that summary. And maybe to help us all get on the same page or, if not, then maybe to provide something to disagree with. But there are so many people and events worth talking about (and comparing) I thought an overview might be useful.

Oh! And one thing I really notice is how economical VN is with words here. Which is definitely opposite to Lolita! LOL Here VN really moves things along!

And one last thing, I could use a page number for the comparison to p.47 if you have it handy. I can't place it.

Peder
 
Blimey!! What a book, what an ending!!! I would have to agree that The Enchanter is more simplistic when compared to Lolita, but still beautifully written. It’s wordiness is simpler and less poetical.

As for similarities… The characters whilst playing similar roles are very different in their personalities. The girl’s mother admits she’s not a good mother and you have to remind yourself that her illness may have played a part in this. The girl herself doesn’t come across as being wayward and you’re not left questioning whether she flirted with Arthur or not as you are with Lolita’s relationship with HH/Quilty. As for Arthur himself - I found he came across as far more predatorial than HH. I see HH as being obsessive and possessive and wonder whether he’d have lived out his fantasy if the fates hadn’t stepped in and handed Lo to him on a silver platter. But with Arthur he more or less stalked his victim(s). He came across as being far more dangerous and delusional (living in some kind of fantasy land – elf, enchanter).

And has anyone read anything sinister in Arthur’s mention of his sister?
 
pontalba said:
Peder But on the whole, I don't think I'd have been comfortable with the personality of Nabokov. His brain was way to circuitious for my taste in a mate. As a novelist however.....right up my alley. :)

There you've said it all. ;)

But wait! I simply have to tell you this one (I just read it): At Wellesley, when he was being bored by a fan's adulation, he'd say "Tell it to Vera," and walk away.

"He did not feel he needed to be burdened with other people's impressions. p.131 Vera



Good thing he could write like he could :cool: .
 
Peder P.80 Lolita:
And although I felt no special urge to supply the Humbert line with a replica of Harold's production (Lolita, with an incestuous thrill, I had grown to regard as my child), it occurred to me that a prolonged confinement, with a nice Caesarean operation and other complications in a safe maternity ward sometime next spring, would give me a chance to be alone with my Lolita for weeks, perhaps--and gorge the limp nymphet with sleeping pills.

Regarding the mother, I know that her attitude towards her daughter could be attributed to her lengthy illness, but I strongly feel that it was more than that. p.35:
"I've already told you," she drawled with that same ridiculous, martyrlike softness, "that what is paramount to me is my peace and quiet. If it is disrupted I shall die....Listen: there she goes scraping her foot on the floor or banging something-it wasn't very loud, we it?--yet it's already enough to give me a nervous spasm and make me see spots before my eyes."
Granted I have never been so ill as she, howsomever...I don't think I would send my only child far away from me. I'd probably cling closer.

There is a nagging whiny quality when she speaks of her daughter that is reminiscent of Charlotte.
 
Breaca That ending! Way different! POW! And somehow more satisfying.:D
What page is the sister mentioned? I don't remember him mentioning any relations at all......:confused:

I agree that Arthur is far more conniving than Humbert thought about being. Look at the way he stalked and plotted. Humbert plotted to a good extent, but it was more of a dreamers plotting. This other guy was cold.

Somehow I tend to doubt that Humbert would have ever done more than what was accomplished in the famous "couch scene" beginning on page 58 - 61 of Lolita. Since we know that the purple pills were in fact some sort of super vitamin, and not a sleeping pill as HH thought, they'd have been quite ineffectual.:p
 
StillILearn said:
Good thing he could write like he could :cool: .
StiillILearn,
Sounds like!
Oy! I can see, now, that I definitely have to reread Vera, to readjust my views of her husband!
Now I am definitely glad that you are reading the book, and commenting, even if you may be getting less thrilled as you read on. I hope it doesn't become too terrible for you! I say that mostly in jest, but now I do fear! :(
Sincerely,
Peder
 
StillILearn "Tell it to Vera." :eek: :D What a prince! Oh, one thing I was surprised about in Vera was that they were both synesthetic.
p. 38 of Vera:
Two people gifted with synesthesia fall into each other's arms as two people with photographic memories might,.....
and right above that:
Vera Slonim's ability to transfer the observations of one sense into the vocabulary of another--what is more properly known as synesthesia and often manifests itself as "colored hearing"--must have delighted her future husband.

The footnote on p. 39 reads:
In light of the literature, it is interesting to note that while synesthetics are generally gifted with superior memories, they often suffer from difficulties with spatial navigation.
Do you suppose thats why he didn't drive? Maybe that particular difficulty did not afflict Vera.

I'm only on p.49 though. :(
 
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